Use belly kick to counter all punches

[JowGaWolf]

I didn't say it was. As a matter of fact, I specifically said NO option is going to be the best option for ALL punches. So what's your point?

I think sometimes we read stuff too literally in Martial Talk where every word is picked and dissected.. Based on what I've seen Wang discuss in past posts I find it difficult to think that it's the best option for all punches. Not the guy who promotes his Rhino guard all the time. lol.

 

[drop bear]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1169344979768117

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I'm kind of lost here. about the kick with the instep. Which kick are you referring to?

It's like roundhouse but kick upward. It's an upward curve.

 

[drop bear]

I don't think anyone has mentioned it put that looks like a classic Teep kick.

Yes we are basically discussing teeps

I murder guys with mine at the moment. I have really found a knack for them.

 

[marques]

When your opponent punches at you, his belly will be exposed. It's a such a big target that your front kick will be hard to miss.

Since the leg is longer than the arm, do you think that belly kick can be the best counter for all punches?

Your thought?

A punch is normally faster than a ‘belly kick’, so will not be always effective, or the solution for every punch.

But I have found it really good against any spinning stuff. Effective and to easy execute and follow up. Much better than waiting to see wait is coming; or moving away and then little opportunity to counter.

 

[Martial D]

I assure you there are guys that can kick as fast as any reverse punch. Out fighters have a very different strategy from a hands fighter. It is not easy to catch a kick when it is knocking you backwards.
Granted I haven't been in the ring for some time, but the kickers I remember could hold their own in a purely MA's open competition. If it is a tippy-tappy points tournament the hands fighter is going to win more often than not. A pure boxer may be a different matter. A pure WT fighter could be in trouble against a good boxer.

Ehh. Every TMA guy everywhere says this sort of stuff. I let the evidence decide who is who.

 

[dvcochran]

Sounds like bad timing. I don't do the kick when their hands are in guard position.. What you describe, sounds similar to what my brother had trouble with, where he was kicking elbows. I helped him out with the timing and now he's able to work the kick with better success. I had to teach him how to recognize when someone is committed to a strike. It tried it on some of his Muay thai sparring partners and he was surprised at how well it worked. He's still not completely comfortable with it, but that will probably change once he gets a chance to work with it and study it while he's sparring.

If a person is fully committed to punching me in the face then all I need to do is recognize that commitment and start my kick as he's getting ready to punch my face in.

The picture below shows how I was able to get my sparring partner to commit to blocking my punch. He raises his hand to defend. This is what I was looking for when I threw my punch. If you take a close look at my left food you can see that it has turned outward.. This part is actually straight from the form.
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This is the next clip. Not only did he commit to defending against my punch, but he turned his head as he was expecting an impact.. When he turned his head like that it, it changed his field of vision. so he's not actually able to see my kick starting up. I'm literally kicking in his bind spot. By the way, this isn't me being some martial arts genius. This is how the technique works, so all I had to do was do it like in the form and the technique takes care of the rest.
View attachment 22549

At this point his bring picks up that a kick his coming as my knee enters his filed of vision. But at this point it's too late. I'm already half way to my target.
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Here. he drops his arm in hopes of stopping my knee from rising. He has no clue where my foot is because it's traveling in his blind spot. This kick wasn't a fast kick. It was just well timed, and there is no way he can drop his elbow before my kick lands.
View attachment 22551


He went from one commitment (blocking a punch) to the next commitment (trying to block a kick) Here he's trying to push my leg down or out of the way. It was part of that response to me kicking him in his ribs. If he's committed to pushing my leg down then he's not committed to punching me.. After I kick I transition into another technique that is straight from the forms that I practice.
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Notice that my leg from the kick doesn't fall to the ground it turns into a step. and from there you can already see that I'm ready to hit him in his face. wide open. All I have to do is just step through.and it's a clean shot, but I don't take it. at this point this is such a text book punch that even landing it soft will still cause damage. This is where you hope your sparring partner is not an ***. This is where you want someone to be kind.
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At this point you can see me chicken wing the punch and bend my wrist, so I can punch to the right of his head (his right).
View attachment 22554

Notice his head doesn't change position. Use the window pane as a way to measure it. His left guard is nowhere in the range of my punch. His right guard doesn't exist because I pulled it with my left hand 2 pictures up. My glove goes to the right of his head. My body still hasn't fully untwisted yet. Had he not been so open I would have sent the punch to his face, and would continued with the same technique but on the left side. The punch in the face would have made him commit to protecting his face from getting hit with another punch. I would have used that big wheel like punch to make him commit to the defending against it. At the same time I would have sent a left kick to his ribs and then another thrust punch to his face. As long as you can get your opponent to commit to one thing, he's less likely to commit to something else at the same time. In this case.elbow drops on my foot would be the last thing that he would be thinking of. I would make sure of that. Now if you are just throwing kicks without occupying your opponent's mind with other stuff, then yes. Your opponent will probably drop an elbow.on your foot. If you throw a punch at your opponent's head, then he will commit to defending his head and not worrying about that kick that he can't see coming.
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Great video work. What software do you use?

 

[dvcochran]

A punch is normally faster than a ‘belly kick’, so will not be always effective, or the solution for every punch.

But I have found it really good against any spinning stuff. Effective and to easy execute and follow up. Much better than waiting to see wait is coming; or moving away and then little opportunity to counter.

Are you saying counter a spinning attack with a front kick? If so I agree, it is usually easy to knock them off balance or at least off target.

 

[dvcochran]

Ehh. Every TMA guy everywhere says this sort of stuff. I let the evidence decide who is who.

Did you watch @drop bear 's Muay Teep kick or MMA video? It is not just a TMA thing. What is your evidence to say otherwise?

 

[jobo]

Maybe against a bad puncher. The leg is slower already, and it has to travel a lot farther. Also asking to be put on your butt..straight kicks from close are super catchable.

A good rule of thumb for this 'in theory' stuff is to see how much it happens in mixed rules competition. If rarely to never, then there is probably a reason for that.

legs do indeed have further to travel general, unless your kicking their shins, which is general their advantage as they strike further away, but are they slower ? that rather depends on the neurological connection and muscle development, rather than being a broad statement of truth

 

[Martial D]

Did you watch @drop bear 's Muay Teep kick or MMA video? It is not just a TMA thing. What is your evidence to say otherwise?

I train teep kicks every day. Trust me punches are always faster. Teep kicks load the hips, they are certainly not the speediest option.

Yes, you can cover and teep at punching range to create distance, but I never said otherwise.

I was more referring to your claims about what people you know can do in fights or whatever. Anecdotes are a dime a dozen.

 

[Martial D]

legs do indeed have further to travel general, unless your kicking their shins, which is general their advantage as they strike further away, but are they slower ? that rather depends on the neurological connection and muscle development, rather than being a broad statement of truth

Even were the leg faster, there is a distance traveled issue.

 

[jobo]

Even were the leg faster, there is a distance traveled issue.

but thats miniscule if it were an actual issues, the bigger muscles in the leg and buttocks should propel faster, making a foot further to travel of no consequence. if they are not actually faster a to b . side kicks are a slightly different issue as the extra mechanics not only take time, but give warning of what's to come

 

[JowGaWolf]

Great video work. What software do you use?

I use Camtasia. It's a nice simple presentation software that allows me to go frame by frame in the editing process. Then I use screen capture tool from Paintshop pro to do any additional editing like changing brightness.. The best time to get these products is usually November - December when they do they do their Holiday sales. Right now the prices are high but should drop significantly this month. Camtasia has a 30-day trial you can play with.

 

[JowGaWolf]

but thats miniscule if it were an actual issues, the bigger muscles in the leg and buttocks should propel faster, making a foot further to travel of no consequence. if they are not actually faster a to b . side kicks are a slightly different issue as the extra mechanics not only take time, but give warning of what's to come

Anything that can travel from the ground to my face before I can block it, is fast enough. At that point for me, it wouldn't matter which was really faster.. The distance that the foot has to travel is irrelevant especially if it travels outside of the field of vision.

 

[jobo]

Anything that can travel from the ground to my face before I can block it, is fast enough. At that point for me, it wouldn't matter which was really faster.. The distance that the foot has to travel is irrelevant especially if it travels outside of the field of vision.

i'm rather on both sides of this discussion because people are talking in absolutes, where as the facts of the matter are a bit open. i general find i can move my feet, to get out of the way faster than other people can move theirs to kick me, but i'm not at all up against elite fighters, like MD is. i'm not well versed in blocking kicks as its something i seldom if ever do, as generally is a quickway to a damaged arm. a damaged arm may be preferable to being kicked in the head, but nowhere near as good as being out of range

 

[drop bear]

I train teep kicks every day. Trust me punches are always faster. Teep kicks load the hips, they are certainly not the speediest option.

Yes, you can cover and teep at punching range to create distance, but I never said otherwise.

I was more referring to your claims about what people you know can do in fights or whatever. Anecdotes are a dime a dozen.

It would be punching from outside of range. You can catch people with a counter kick. Because then they have to step.

Maby not so much from inside if they are throwing combos.

But if you have the right range and they are punching in to your guard you can let one off.

That is where I will throw an oblique kick which is shorter.

 

[Buka]

We're talking about countering a punch to the head. There's more than one way to do it. And, yes, it depends on the rule set you're fighting under, who you're fighting and what your particular skill set is.

Let's say the opponent is throwing a straight right hand....

Maybe you'll counter with a straight right of your own, rolling your head a little as you do. Fighters often get rattled when you counter them this way.

Maybe you'll counter by bending your knees and throwing a counter right to his body.

Maybe, especially if you have the better footwork, you'll duck under and pivot, coming back with your own right.

Maybe you'll counter with a classic left hook.
Sometimes it will be inside his guard...
sometimes outside his guard and over his punching hand.

Sometimes you'll counter with a foot sweep of some kind. Punchers really hate to get their lead foot swept. It usually gives them something to worry about, flinch even - if you fake it after a few.

Maybe you'll deflect his right with a shoulder roll and come back with a right of your own.

Maybe, if you are at least as quick as your opponent, you counter that right with an intercepting jab. Just make sure your chin is down and rear shoulder is up. If that chin ain't down, you soon will be.

Maybe you'll counter with a parry of some sort. A parry and a punch. If you're not following your parry with anything all you're doing is letting him study your timing instead of you taking advantage of his.

Maybe you'll intercept his right hand with a kick to the body, with your front or rear foot. This, just like anything else, depends on how well you kick, how well your timing has developed, how well you understand distance, and how much you train it. I don't do it as much as I used to, because I don't kick like I used to, but I did it successfully for thirty years, and at different distances depending on how his reach compared to mine and how good his footwork was.

I always found that there aren't many things in life that are more enjoyable than punching a kicker and kicking a puncher. Other than, you know.....bacon.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

punching a kicker and kicking a puncher.

People may forget that sometime you just let your opponent to run into your kick.

Of course your opponent can run into your punch too. But since your arm length may be the same as your opponent's arm length, when your opponent runs into your punch, his punch may hit you too.

This is why in the ancient battle field, the defense side will hold spears to deal with the incoming solders who hold swords.

 

[Buka]

People may forget that sometime you don't have to finish your kick. You just have to extend your leg in your opponent's advance path and our opponent will run into your kick. Of course your opponent can run into your punch too. But since your arm length may be the same as your opponent's arm length, when your opponent runs into your punch, his punch may hit you too.

In both cases, you will need a strong foundation. Otherwise your opponent can run you down. This is why you will need your training partner to hold on a kicking shiled, runs toward you with full speed, and see whether you can still stand still.

Yes, we did that forever. Just like when it was mentioned about catching somebody's kick. Although any kicker worth his salt works on not getting his kicks caught - any kicker with an ounce of sense works on what to do when they do get caught, because it's going to happen at some time.

If this isn't worked on against resistance.....the first time you get your kick caught....you are in for a world of enlightenment. Just like when you don't have a strong foundation like you mentioned above.

If you're a kicker, you should constantly ask yourself, as well as ask experienced others - if I was fighting me - how would I shove that kick right up my keister?