OP
OP
Use belly kick to counter all punches
- Thread starter Kung Fu Wang
- Start date
dvcochran
Grandmaster
As others have said, it has a lot to do with distance. With a lead leg kick it should be a close race for a good to better-than-average kicker.
dvcochran
Grandmaster
Haha. A scary visual of my point.Agree!
Small target.
big target.
Wow, just wow. There is so much padding there I am not certain anything would work.
OP
OP
- Your opponent steps in and attack you.
- Studently your opponent drops down in front of you.
- You just realized that your opponent has run into your front toes push kick.
You don't even notice that your leg has just kicked out without any order that came from your brain.
"Subconscious" is the key here.
If your training partner holds a kicking shield and runs toward you with full speed 100 times daily, within 3 years, IMO, you should be able to develop this subconscious skill.
Martial D
Senior Master
Maybe against a bad puncher. The leg is slower already, and it has to travel a lot farther. Also asking to be put on your butt..straight kicks from close are super catchable.
A good rule of thumb for this 'in theory' stuff is to see how much it happens in mixed rules competition. If rarely to never, then there is probably a reason for that.
This works pretty good. I have used it a bunch. I like to start in a more forward stance, when they advance, I shift to a back stance, in order to get power behind the kick. If I time it right, the other guy mistakes my stance shift for a retreat... they then over extend trying to exploit the retreat, only they run into the kick.
If you watch MMA, you can see lots of people using a teap kick in a similar fashion.
However, its like every other technique and strategy out there... it can be defended and countered. I wouldn't put any technique down as "works every time." But this definitely has a place, and can be used effectively.
OP
OP
Agree! When there is a technique, there will be many counters. When there is a counter, there will be many counters for that counter.
A: My front kick can work on everybody.
B: Nobody's front kick can work on me.
It's a paradox indeed.
I do it all the time. It's one those guarantees that there will be an opening under the punching arm, unless it's a short hook, then it's just elbows lol.
dvcochran
Grandmaster
I assure you there are guys that can kick as fast as any reverse punch. Out fighters have a very different strategy from a hands fighter. It is not easy to catch a kick when it is knocking you backwards.
Granted I haven't been in the ring for some time, but the kickers I remember could hold their own in a purely MA's open competition. If it is a tippy-tappy points tournament the hands fighter is going to win more often than not. A pure boxer may be a different matter. A pure WT fighter could be in trouble against a good boxer.
Not really. I've been in punching range and had no problem kicking the person in the ribs. You just have to use the right kick for close range.
My sparring partner here was within punching range when I started this kick. He's taller and has a longer arm reach than me.
This is what the kick looked like when it landed. It stopped his forward motion
This may not look like it, but it's within punching range. He just can't hit me because I'm leaning back, but in the video I'm able to punch him after the kick.
This is from the same video. After I had kicked him n the ribs. All I had to do was drop my leg and punch. You can actually see close he is by how far my fist goes past his head.
This is the price I paid for redirecting the punch instead of just blasting him in his face. There is a such thing as being too close to kick like you stated but if your opponent is that close then more than likely you are already punching or grappling which will allow you to get more strikes from punches than from kicks. The kick is more of a one fire shot in a scenario like this. In general I don't have problems kicking people when they are in punching range. I think I prefer it because after I get those ribs tender I can follow up with some punches. I don't use my kicks at the range that most people use them where they want to kick without being punched. I tend to kick where I'm close enough to follow up with a punch or some other technique.
But to your point I don't want to be too close because then I'm stuck on one leg without the ability to move off that spot until my other leg returns. That means a person can just rush into me and there would be nothing to I could do, because my kick would be jammed. Wang and I probably have similar front kicks.. So one of the things I always like to do is for you to get into punching range so I can kick under your punch.
I always try to target the ribs. I don't want to kick directly into the ribs, I prefer to kick at an angle. The red arrow shows where the ribs will be the strongest against an impact. The green arrow shows where the ribs will be the weakest. The ribs are designed to protect what's under them so striking at an angle attacks where they are weakest. Kicking the ribs at an angle means the ribs won't be able to give the same way if the impact followed the red arrow.
Oh too your point about jamming a front kick. Depending on the type of front kick, I can actually jab it with my abdomen which throws the kicker backwards. I don't do it often because the timing has to be good and it has to be against a specific kick. Get either one of those wrong then it's going to be pain. If a kick is traveling horizontally then I can make the impact occur before my opponent is ready to make contact., Unfortunately it does not work well against front snap kicks to the body where the kick impact is at an angle. I've only done this against kickers who kicked slow enough for me to react to it.,
I don't know what my reaction time is like these days, but probably not good enough to do what I used to do 5 years ago.
OP
OP
I did that once before. My opponent dropped his boxing guard and smash his elbow joint right on top of my foot (I have done that many times to my opponents too).
I tried to stay away from my opponent's sharp elbow joint. That's why I prefer the belly than the chest.
The groin kick is an upward motion and kick with the instep (not the ball of the foot). It's a complete different kick.
dvcochran
Grandmaster
If I am intending to do harm I am going to kick you in the groin with the ball of my foot. If I have on hard shoes or boots I am going to use the toe of the shoe. I would use the top of my foot if I didn't really want to hurt them, to get them to drop their hands for example.
Sounds like bad timing. I don't do the kick when their hands are in guard position.. What you describe, sounds similar to what my brother had trouble with, where he was kicking elbows. I helped him out with the timing and now he's able to work the kick with better success. I had to teach him how to recognize when someone is committed to a strike. It tried it on some of his Muay thai sparring partners and he was surprised at how well it worked. He's still not completely comfortable with it, but that will probably change once he gets a chance to work with it and study it while he's sparring.
If a person is fully committed to punching me in the face then all I need to do is recognize that commitment and start my kick as he's getting ready to punch my face in.
The picture below shows how I was able to get my sparring partner to commit to blocking my punch. He raises his hand to defend. This is what I was looking for when I threw my punch. If you take a close look at my left food you can see that it has turned outward.. This part is actually straight from the form.
This is the next clip. Not only did he commit to defending against my punch, but he turned his head as he was expecting an impact.. When he turned his head like that it, it changed his field of vision. so he's not actually able to see my kick starting up. I'm literally kicking in his bind spot. By the way, this isn't me being some martial arts genius. This is how the technique works, so all I had to do was do it like in the form and the technique takes care of the rest.
At this point his bring picks up that a kick his coming as my knee enters his filed of vision. But at this point it's too late. I'm already half way to my target.
Here. he drops his arm in hopes of stopping my knee from rising. He has no clue where my foot is because it's traveling in his blind spot. This kick wasn't a fast kick. It was just well timed, and there is no way he can drop his elbow before my kick lands.
He went from one commitment (blocking a punch) to the next commitment (trying to block a kick) Here he's trying to push my leg down or out of the way. It was part of that response to me kicking him in his ribs. If he's committed to pushing my leg down then he's not committed to punching me.. After I kick I transition into another technique that is straight from the forms that I practice.
Notice that my leg from the kick doesn't fall to the ground it turns into a step. and from there you can already see that I'm ready to hit him in his face. wide open. All I have to do is just step through.and it's a clean shot, but I don't take it. at this point this is such a text book punch that even landing it soft will still cause damage. This is where you hope your sparring partner is not an ***. This is where you want someone to be kind.
At this point you can see me chicken wing the punch and bend my wrist, so I can punch to the right of his head (his right).
Notice his head doesn't change position. Use the window pane as a way to measure it. His left guard is nowhere in the range of my punch. His right guard doesn't exist because I pulled it with my left hand 2 pictures up. My glove goes to the right of his head. My body still hasn't fully untwisted yet. Had he not been so open I would have sent the punch to his face, and would continued with the same technique but on the left side. The punch in the face would have made him commit to protecting his face from getting hit with another punch. I would have used that big wheel like punch to make him commit to the defending against it. At the same time I would have sent a left kick to his ribs and then another thrust punch to his face. As long as you can get your opponent to commit to one thing, he's less likely to commit to something else at the same time. In this case.elbow drops on my foot would be the last thing that he would be thinking of. I would make sure of that. Now if you are just throwing kicks without occupying your opponent's mind with other stuff, then yes. Your opponent will probably drop an elbow.on your foot. If you throw a punch at your opponent's head, then he will commit to defending his head and not worrying about that kick that he can't see coming.
I'm kind of lost here. about the kick with the instep. Which kick are you referring to?
Danny T
Senior Master
The question was: "...do you think that belly kick can be the best counter for all punches?"
I agree with being able to do a belly kick to someone at some punching ranges. As most all things it is situational. But to counter 'all' punches? I disagree.
I didn't say it was. As a matter of fact, I specifically said NO option is going to be the best option for ALL punches. So what's your point?
I just read past that. Being that there is no one best counter for all punches. I agree with you on that. My mind tends to skip over things like "all" where you know there's going to be an exception to it.
