University of Hawaii/Ward Churchill-LOSERS!

[rmcrobertson]

Uh...who supported Ward Churchill, exactly?

Looks like somebody's gonna be sorry in the morning.

 

[Karazenpo]

Robert, I didn't see your last post until I just posted the one after you. I really don't have anything to add because the proof is in Mr. Churchill's actions. I feel vindicated that my instincts, training and experience guided me in the right direction about this guy. Maybe some of you think law enforcement experience is nothing but it's life experience and you really do learn a lot about people and things. Robert, that was a good post in Kenponet about the internet part, I agree with you but sometimes wonder why we continue to stay on it. Sometimes I think it's an addiction. Well, like I told you once before, I do read your into posts and respect your opinions but we just disagree a lot but it doesn't mean we're bad people or can't like each other. Take care my friend, it's almost midnight my time and I've got to go to work tommoro. Signing off, be safe, Joe

 

[Karazenpo]

Alright Robert, I just caught your last post as I was going off line. I don't get it, what do you mean?

 

[rmcrobertson]

have a good night Joe; thanks for the discussion, however over-heated.

 

[Karazenpo]

have a good night Joe; thanks for the discussion, however over-heated.

Okay, goodnight Robert and thank you too.

 

[Makalakumu]

I'm sorry but that is B.S. And that is why people shouldn't be tenured. Public sentiment should determine what kind of speech, opinions and research are be conducted at publicly funded schools. If this was a guy giving speeches on how all minorities should be rounded up and kicked out of the US or not allowed to vote would you be defending his rights as adimantly?

Michelle Malkin did just that with her book In defense of Internment. Hannity has had her on the radio and on the Hannity/Combs several times. No body is screaming for her to be removed. I get to see her face every morning on Fox while I lift weights. How many millions has she influenced? Compare that to the handful of wackjob teachers out there...

 

[Makalakumu]

Regarding the "New-Media"...Hannity, Limbaugh, Savage, O'Reilly et al...

Circus Stars

Do you remember the marionettes at the circus?
How they plied their trade next to the popcorn booth
So the gentle breezes would spread the scent of buttered heaven,
Drawing people in from all around?

The puppet, with a twitch of an arm
A kick of a leg,
Could make us laugh hysterically
Or bitterly weep, at his whim.

And do you remember the day the strings broke?
How the puppet laid on the ground, motionless,
And how we stood watching, slackjawed, still,
Until the puppet master retied his strings?

“Just a foul-up,” He said with a smile,
Calmly attaching the cords to his minion,
To the arms, legs, head, and mouth
So we could clap when the master kicked and laugh
At his little song and dance.

John Kedrowski

Here is a good working definition of fascism...

The 14 Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism

by Dr. Lawrence Britt

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -

Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -

Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -

The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military -

Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism -

The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homo-sexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media -

Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security -

Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -

Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected -

The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed -

Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -

Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -

Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -

Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections -

Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

upnorthkyosa

 

[michaeledward]

HA, HA, HA!!!!!!!!!!!! It's a little after 11:00pm my time and I thought I'd catch some t.v. Well guess what? Remember a few posts ago I said time will tell and things would escalate to violence and you guys put me down? Remember? Well a reporter uncovered information that Mr. Churchill stole someone elses work. There is more to it than that but it's a breaking story and more will be coming out. He ASSAULTED the reporter and before anyone questions me on this, IT WAS ON FILM, YES CAUGHT ON TAPE. Good old Ward got violent 'TWICE' when this reporter attempted to inquire about this situation.

PeachMonkey, Robert and Company who supports good old Ward better regroup so you can make 101 excuses for this pathetic imbecile but many of us would respect you more if you just admitted what an idiot loser he is. YOU HAVE TO SEE THE TAPE BECAUSE HE ACTS EXACTLY LIKE YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE ME ACT IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT SO YOU COULD BE ALL OVER ME!
However, that's the difference bewteen good old Ward and me and that's why I just can't understand your thinking but that's okay, it's your opinion BUT you have to see this tape for his actions are uncalled for, unruly, assaulting, moronic and I guarrantee to you I'll be back soon to post of his FIRING! Freedom of speech, huh? You mean freedom to assault, I said it would escalate to violence sooner or later, slowly but surely, little by little but your pompous attitudes put me down. well, who's laughing now? What was my title of this post, was it something like: 'LOSER"!!!!!!, LOL, LOL.

Let's review.

College professor makes statement
Nations second (third?) richest radio personality attacks college professor
Radio personality incites listeners to protest colleges who hired college professor
Radio personality listeners achieve cancellation of the college professors paid speaking engagements
People all over the country are calling for college professors head on a platter (metaphorically in most cases)
College professor gets in a fight with a reporter.

Could it be a papparazzi effect?
Could it be a cornered animal will fight back?

Nope .. it is proof that the college professor is dangerous. Thus, justifying the premise that someone must call for his head.

Great ... just great.

 

[michaeledward]

. . . .The University of Hawaii paid him to speak!!! and there were rounds of applause for him! WTF!!! I hope the hell there isn't gong to be some idiots answering this post in defense of not only this lying dirtbag but the University of Hawaii for hosting him but in this country, who knows? This guy gets into an American University to teach our kids through 'Affirmative Action' on the pretence that he's an American Indian of which is complete b.s., I'm as much of an American Indian as he is and believe me, I'm not.

It seems that the Honolulu Star Bulletin mis quoted Mr. Churchill concerning his ethnic background. I wonder how much of this argument is taking place because of the original article's incorrect language.


http://starbulletin.com/2005/02/24/news/story3.html

Churchill misquoted in article on UH speech
Star-Bulletin staff


The Honolulu Star-Bulletin, in an article yesterday, incorrectly quoted University of Colorado professor Ward Churchill as admitting that he was not American Indian.

The story about Churchill's Tuesday night speech at the University of Hawaii-Manoa said the professor noted that his "white Republican" critics were asking, "Is he an Indian? Do we really care?"

"Let's cut to the chase, I'm not," the quote in yesterday's paper continued.

But a review of video and audio tapes of the speech shows that Churchill actually said: "Is he an Indian?

"We really care. We're trying to protect the rights of Indians to divine for themselves, say this circle of flies in the form of white reporters circling a manure pile like it's of all consequential importance.

"Cut to the chase on that."

Churchill went on to say that he is an associate member of the Keetoowah tribe and that associates are enrolled in the band after their genealogy has been vetted by the enrollment office. He said that he is less than one-quarter Indian, so he does not qualify to be a full member. The issue of whether Churchill has Indian blood is part of the national debate over the controversial professor who gained notoriety for comparing some Sept. 11, 2001, victims to Nazis.

 

[modarnis]

>>HA, HA, HA!!!!!!!!!!!! It's a little after 11:00pm my time and I thought I'd catch some t.v. Well guess what? Remember a few posts ago I said time will tell and things would escalate to violence and you guys put me down? Remember? Well a reporter uncovered information that Mr. Churchill stole someone elses work. There is more to it than that but it's a breaking story and more will be coming out. He ASSAULTED the reporter and before anyone questions me on this, IT WAS ON FILM, YES CAUGHT ON TAPE. Good old Ward got violent 'TWICE' when this reporter attempted to inquire about this situation>>

So this guy is a jerk. This still does not indicate that his speech gives rise to the kind of violence in others that would warrant restricting his speech. As much as I may disagree with anyones words, I at least have a well grounded understanding of the rights to free speech. I posted some relevant links. There are a few who have posted on this thread that should take the time to read them. Unfortunately Joe, all of the folks you have attacked at least understand our constitutional framework

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Karazenpo in bold:

Go back [Peachmonkey] and read ever post you ever wrote! It's absurd. You are never, ever wrong. Everyone else is but you! It must be nice to be perfect.

No. Peach will tell you I'm often right. I think he thinks Michael and Robert are often right. I should say "correct," as we are never right in the political sense. Or rarely so.

Now, this may piss you off but I'm willing to bet you don't have a boyfriend/husband and if you had a husband you're divorced, sorry, you may say irrelavent and none of my business but it goes perfectly in line with your attitude!

Last I checked he had a girlfriend.

I wouldn't bring this up, I really wouldn't, but there's no healthy discussion you can have with someone who is always right!

On the contrary. You can try and prove him wrong. That's not only healthy, that's fun...if you have the ability to do it.

Hey, PeachMonkey, no offense but what the hell, no one is right all the time, I'm the first to change my position on things nad have and said the magic words 'stand corrected' but I'm willing to bet oyu never have, have you? No, not on this forun anyway. Wonder Woman, I guess.

Start with this insofar as changing your position. Peach is a guy. A heterosexual male.

Ooops. I just noticed they pulled the plug on you. I always notice this too late, it seems.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Tgace]

The guy does have the freedom to say what he wants...he wasnt imprisoned was he? I have the freedom to tell my boss whatever I want, doesn't mean I cant get fired. Granted tenure, freedom of thought (within the scope of "University jurisdiction") are improtant and firing the guy seems extreme. But the guys not being put in a camp or executed or imprisoned or anything. If theres a problem its at the university level. Just as the guy has the right to spout the crap he spouts...we all have the right to complain, protest and write letters about the guy too.

 

[Danjo]

After reading this, I must say that I do find it ironic that a person that says publicly that they want to do away with the US, then stands on his US Constitutional rights for his own purposes. If you want to get rid of the US, then you want to get rid of it's Constitutional protections also.


I can't believe Prof. Joe got suspended for this. Was it because he mistook Peachmonkey's gender? Please tell me he can come back soon.

 

[GAB]

After reading this, I must say that I do find it ironic that a person that says publicly that they want to do away with the US, then stands on his US Constitutional rights for his own purposes. If you want to get rid of the US, then you want to get rid of it's Constitutional protections also.


I can't believe Prof. Joe got suspended for this. Was it because he mistook Peachmonkey's gender? Please tell me he can come back soon.

Hi Danjo,

I think he just ran up against the inner sactum of the sactimonious of Martial Talk..I can't believe McRobertsons remarks either??? Joe gets suspended...LOL

Then Hardheaded comes up and plays dumb, Oh that was so tricky...

I believe in freedom of speech also, I guess that is why I have been suspended and kicked off of boards??? I don't trash talk, I am just relentless...

Regards, Gary

 

[rmcrobertson]

Hey, if you guys are comfortable with a small group of students getting a right-wing, multimillionaire talk show host to help them oppose the free exchange of ideas, our Constitutional guarantees of free speech, and the principle of academic freedom, what could I possibly say to convince you otherwise?

 

[psi_radar]

I graduated at CU boulder as an "unconventional" student. That means I was an old guy (late 20's), and unfortunately wasn't a full contributing part of its partying status. I've stayed in the area because it's abolutely beautiful. I love it.

Locally, we're not too bent out of shape on this issue. Obviously Fox News and others have taken this bonehead's views and made it a moneymaker. The exposure is a little embarassing, after all, we had the Ramsey case and other incompetence to deal with as well. Sometimes we seem like we're the nexus of poor police work, stupidity, and corrupt sports teams. And so it goes.

Ward Churchill used hyperbole to make a point, a point which is understandable if you cut through the bull. He is saying we, that is the United States, have a history of hegemony, genocide, and improper projection of our force to influence our will on other peoples. And by not actively protesting these policies, we are all complicit in our government's actions, and reap what we sow.

I don't agree with his methods, and I'm skeptical about his credentials, but the man does have a point, if you get past the 7-second sound bites.

When I saw the towers get hit, my first spoken reaction was, let's find these people and turn their land into a glass parking lot. Then I started thinking about the innocents in between. Many bottles of single malt later, I realized this situation was like any other disease. You can either treat the symptoms (eliminate the threat) , or try and treat the root illness, which lies somewhere in our foreign policy. There's money, religion, energy. A lot to do, but it doesn't end with a man who voices dissent in university. I think we're subverting our own doubts and guilt on this relatively unsignificant man whose words have struck a very uncomfortable tone--one in which we must ask ourselves--did we have it coming? People around the world are extremely angry with us, pre 9'11 and post. Why?

 

[Makalakumu]

When I saw the towers get hit, my first spoken reaction was, let's find these people and turn their land into a glass parking lot. Then I started thinking about the innocents in between. Many bottles of single malt later, I realized this situation was like any other disease. You can either treat the symptoms (eliminate the threat) , or try and treat the root illness, which lies somewhere in our foreign policy. There's money, religion, energy. A lot to do, but it doesn't end with a man who voices dissent in university. I think we're subverting our own doubts and guilt on this relatively unsignificant man whose words have struck a very uncomfortable tone--one in which we must ask ourselves--did we have it coming? People around the world are extremely angry with us, pre 9'11 and post. Why?

Mr. Churchill is one among many who sees the hurt we have inflicted in the past and who thinks that we can correct that hurt by bringing a peacefull and concilliatory message. Mr. Churchill, if you actually read his writing, advocates using our national treasure to make the lives of the people involved better then they were before...and in that way, we spread freedom, peace and goodwill for America throughout the world.

Question - Is our current path contrary to those goals???

Check out this thread...I'm feeling a little predictable and have decided to stir things a bit.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22051

 

[GAB]

Hey, if you guys are comfortable with a small group of students getting a right-wing, multimillionaire talk show host to help them oppose the free exchange of ideas, our Constitutional guarantees of free speech, and the principle of academic freedom, what could I possibly say to convince you otherwise?

Hi McRobertson,

I am very much concerned with the right wing the left wing and any other radical group...I have got to tell, you I have been on a few campus's myself and some of the stuff Angela Davis preached was pretty scary... But like you say freedom is what we are after hear, I guess this board is just not quite so free...

Rules, we play by rules, good!!!

I just am curious about who pulls the switch and why. I believe they should tell anyone who is curious as to the reason...Let us be able to verify or learn, after all we are the peer...

I am sure this board is not a democratic org....You need autocrat's but after awhile and you see some get away with it and others can't, well you know what I mean....

Think, learn, and try to emulate the good and throw away the bad...

Regards, Gary

 

[PeachMonkey]

...and you see some get away with it and others can't, well you know what I mean....

So why the concern about Joe's suspension but no similar protests of "sanctimony" when Robert was recently suspended? Or does that break your model of "some getting away and others can't"?

 

[GAB]

So why the concern about Joe's suspension but no similar protests of "sanctimony" when Robert was recently suspended? Or does that break your model of "some getting away and others can't"?

Peach Monkey,

I did not see that Robert was suspended, Guess I was to busy in the trench's
on another subject...

I believe you are a very good group of Constitutional talkers. I like the constitution I have taken many oaths to uphold and fight for it...

Regards, Gary