Unarmed Florida Teen Shot

[Empty Hands]

Yep Racist Pigs you got it. What point would an Accredited Law Enforcement Agency Gain over covering this up knowing the national attention its gained? WHy would a Law enforcement officer risk his livelyhood protecting Zimmerman?

More than likely, they didn't "cover up" for Zimmerman - they simply believed him without thinking any more deeply about it. Racism is a lot more than white hoods and active malice. It colors the way people think and perceive the world without necessarily even being conscious.

You know, like a bunch of people on an internet comment thread trying to find reasons why a dead kid might have had it coming when they don't do it for other similar situations.

 

[billc]

Wow, perhaps a chill pill empty. Actually, I don't hate having a black man in the white house, I really dislike having a hard core lefty in the white house. I didn't like the Clinton co-presidency either and really didn't want the Gorebot in their either. Race has so much less to do with life today than some of you are ready to admit. This shooting is full of grey areas, which the left is so fond of pointing out in so many other areas of life, that it is simply not a clear shooting incident.

 

[ballen0351]

No don't go back to the 70's go back 150 years what ever its a cultural fact in the south or other areas a black person cannot walk or wear certain clothes or just go where they want with out risk. Zimmerman being Hispanic is not the issue he was an agressive non black and there was probable cause the police department is a mess and he should have been arrested and leave to a jury to decide inocent or guilty plane and simple.

Well since the States Atty not the police department said not to file charges then the "mess" in the police department is irrelevent.

By the way I wouldn't believe anything FIX news put out if they said the sky is blue its a Faciast Raciist Propaganda outlet. Oh yeh we have a white man behind a door no name being interviewed that Martin was attacking Zimerman and the screaming help me was from him.

Thats your choice to believe the "witnesses" that only go along with the story you believe and ignore the others that were closer and not out for fame and dont want to be on TV.

So when you guys pull a gun you scream help help me uh uh.

He was asking for help BEFORE he pulled the gun trying to avoid needing to shoot the kid.

No body is saying pin anything on Zimerman but a weopon was fired a person killed and give a break if Zimerman was black and Martin was white he would have been arrested and probably would not look to good after the arrest?

So where back to racist white cop argument even tho the shooter wasnt white?

It just as bad as the entire GOP and all the Tea Party and the whole oposition to Obama is they can't look in the mirror and say it comes down to they just hate having a black man in the White House? Theres an Oximoron for you?

Yes thats why 50% of America is againt Obama its because of his Race has nothing to do with his policies were all stupid racist rednecks we can only hope to be as enlightened as you some day

 

[billc]

Here is an article on racial violence in the U.S....

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/03/23/crime-and-the-numbers-game/

So I wanted to know the exact figures. The most recent, those of 2009, I could find are on the site of the Department of Justice.

About 13% of the population is black. About 80% is white (this number includes Hispanics).

In 2009, 2,963 white individuals were killed by white offenders. White offenders killed 209 black individuals.

In that same year, 2,604 black individuals were killed by black offenders. And 454 white individuals were killed by black offenders.

As we see, there is cross-racial deadly violence, but offenders mainly cause victims within their own race; it is so-called intra-racial.

What about recent decades? Murders surveyed between 1974 and 2004 show that 52% of the offenders were black, 48% were white.
Of the victims, 51% were white, 47% were black.

In that period, 86% of white murders had whites offenders, and 94% of black murders had black offenders.

There may be a hunt by white vigilantes for innocent young black men in Florida — if it exists, the figures show this is a limited phenomenon. Trayvon Martin’s death should be thoroughly investigated and the vigilante should be brought to trial in case he broke the law. But such a crime is an exception.

 

[billc]

Here is Zimmerman's lawyer...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/24/us-usa-florida-shooting-idUSBRE82N0CU20120324

This was not a racially motivated situation," Sonner told Reuters on Saturday from his law office, which has attracted a parade of television satellite trucks since it became public on Friday that he was representing Zimmerman.
"Actually George Zimmerman was a mentor to a single mother with a 14 year old son and a 13 year old daughter and she had nothing but good things to say about his involvement with them, and also helping in raising money for their African American church," Sonner said.
The lawyer, who is handling his first high-profile media case, said he has represented Zimmerman for a "couple of weeks" but has yet to meet his client face-to-face because it would risk revealing his whereabouts. Zimmerman has disappeared from public view since the shooting gained national media attention in early March.
"Look out in the driveway," Sonner said, referring to the TV trucks.
Sonner declined to discuss most details of the case to protect his client, who is under investigation by a state special prosecutor, the FBI and the U.S. Justice Department.
But he did affirm a police report that Zimmerman suffered a bloody nose and a cut on the back of his head. Sanford police said they found no evidence to contradict Zimmerman's story of self defense, supported in part by the injuries.
Sonner said Martin punched Zimmerman in the nose and Zimmerman hit the back of his head on the ground upon falling backward.
The race issue was inflamed by audio tapes of Zimmerman speaking to an emergency operator in which he uttered what his critics believe was a racial slur while in pursuit of Martin. The unclear audio is open to interpretation but if prosecutors believe they can convince a jury that Zimmerman used the offending words he could be prosecuted for a hate crime.
"Based on talking with George and his friends, I don't believe he made racial slurs. He was not known for talking that way," Sonner said.
Though Sonner believes public sentiment is wrong, he understands why emotions are running high.

 

[ballen0351]

More than likely, they didn't "cover up" for Zimmerman - they simply believed him without thinking any more deeply about it.

Or maybe the are professionals that take pride in there jobs and really do try to do a good job. The looked at all the witnesses and decided to investigate further before charging anyone. Once charges are brought they are on the clock and have time limits to protect the accused rights. If hes not charged yet they have time to make sure they do a complete investigation so when charges are brought they have an airtight case. OR maybe they looked at the case and its not as clear cut as the 45 second sotry on the nightly news makes it out to be.

Racism is a lot more than white hoods and active malice. It colors the way people think and perceive the world without necessarily even being conscious.

You know, like a bunch of people on an internet comment thread trying to find reasons why a dead kid might have had it coming when they don't do it for other similar situations.

Maybe if it were just one person looking at the case but for that to be true you would have to assume the entire 140 people that work at that PD are all Racisist. I find that hard to believe since Im sure at least 1/2 are not even from Fla or the south. Good thing about police work is once your certified in a state its pretty easy to go to another and get hired and ceritfied. Alot of northern Cops get tired of the snow and move south. We considered it a few years ago but decided not to make the move but I personally know just myself of 6 guys that all moved to fla and are cops all over the state.

 

[Empty Hands]

Or maybe the are professionals that take pride in there jobs and really do try to do a good job.

If that was true, they would have tried to do a good job.

 

[Empty Hands]

Wow, perhaps a chill pill empty.

I'm chill baby. If Trayvon was my son though and you had said some of the **** about him you've said on this thread to me, my words would be the least of your worries.

This shooting is full of grey areas, which the left is so fond of pointing out in so many other areas of life, that it is simply not a clear shooting incident.

The only grey areas in this shooting are the ones you insist on creating by deliberate ignorance.

 

[billc]

Here is an article. It concerns not a hispanic on black shooting but a black on white shooting, virtually the same circumstances, different states, and different laws, but the system was allowed to work...

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/03/what_if_trayvon_had_been_white_and_the_shooter_black.html

We know this because in fact, such an event occurred in 2009 in Greece, N.Y., a suburb of Rochester. Roderick Scott, a black man, shot and killed an unarmed white teen, Christopher Cervini, whom he believed was burglarizing a neighbor's car, with a licensed .40 cal. handgun.
There are many similarities between the Scott-Cervini case and the George Zimmerman-Trayvon Martin case in Florida. In both cases, there had been a spate of [COLOR=#009900 !important]criminal[/COLOR] activity in the neighborhood. In both cases, the shooters called 911 to report suspicious activity, yet chose to confront the unarmed suspects outside their residence and off their own property prior to the arrival of the police. In both cases, the shooters claimed that they felt threatened, and fired in self-defense. In both cases, local law enforcement applied relevant state law.

Unlike Florida, New York does not have a "stand your ground" law. New York law allows a person to use deadly force to defend his residence from home invasion only as a last resort. It does not allow the use of deadly force to prevent a property crime, and requires retreat if possible. Thus, while Zimmerman was not arrested under Florida law, Scott was tried for manslaughter.​

New York law does allow a person to use deadly force anywhere, including off his own property, if he feels that his life is in imminent danger and retreat is not possible. Despite the fact that he left his own property, confronted, and shot dead an unarmed white person thought to be committing a petty property crime, Scott was acquitted by a majority-white jury after claiming that the Cervini charged at him, putting him in imminent fear of his life.
Despite the racial difference between the shooter and the decedent, there were no allegations of racial bias. Scott was not charged with a hate crime. There was no Federal civil rights investigation. There were no white protests. The case was settled for what it was: a tragedy caused by a series of poor decisions on behalf of the shooter, and a split-second decision that will forever be second-guessed.
In all probability, the actions of Zimmerman in Florida were also based on a series of poor decisions: the decision to follow a suspect after a police dispatcher told him not to, the decision to confront a suspect with a firearm off his own property, and a split-second decision to shoot an unarmed person when Zimmerman felt his life was in imminent danger, resulting in tragedy. But a tragedy is not necessarily a Federal civil rights case - unless the mobs in the streets and their allies in the media and government want to make it one.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012...hite_and_the_shooter_black.html#ixzz1q5PseXgE

 

[billc]

Is emotionality really necessary in this discussion? If you know the participants, sure, I can see where emotion would come into play. I can see feeling for the tragedy of the situation, an innocent teenager killed. But really, is the excess emotion necessary to the discussion?

 

[billc]

How about getting emotional over this story from Chicago near where I live...

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...gunshot-wounds-rash-of-gang-related-shootings

A 6-year-old girl was killed Saturday afternoon after suffering multiple gunshot wounds in front of her home in the Little Village neighborhood, one of five people shot within an hour in attacks across the city, police said.
The girl was on the front porch with her mother, younger sister and a male when a pickup truck pulled up in front of the house on the 3100 block of South Springfield Avenue around 3:40 p.m., and someone fired multiple shots out of the window, hitting the child, according to Chicago Police News Affairs Officer John Mirabelli.

This wasn't a tragedy, it was cold blooded killing, and not one word from the race haters Al "Tawana Brawley" Sharpton, Jesse "Beer distributor" Jackson or the Black "Clan" panther party...

 

[billc]

From the above post on the New York shooting...

We know this because in fact, such an event occurred in 2009 in Greece, N.Y., a suburb of Rochester. Roderick Scott, a black man, shot and killed an unarmed white teen, Christopher Cervini, whom he believed was burglarizing a neighbor's car, with a licensed .40 cal. handgun.

If this case had come up on Martialtalk I would still want to know about the teen accused of burglarizing the car. What kind of kid was he, what was he really like, not what his parents claimed, but what he was really. Is he the kind of teen who got into fights at school, did he cause trouble at school, did he ever bring a weapon to school, did he have an arrest record and what kind of record did he have at his school. This isn't about race but what really happened in that grassy area between the condos.

 

[ballen0351]

If that was true, they would have tried to do a good job.

You got proof they didnt? Nope you have an opinon based on news clips you have no REAL info on the case.

if your such an expert on Homicide Investigations maybe you should go give them a hand.

 

[Empty Hands]

You got proof they didnt? Nope you have an opinon based on news clips you have no REAL info on the case.

They clearly didn't listen to the 911 tapes. They corrected witness statements and ignored others. They took an armed man's word that an unarmed kid 100 lbs lighter than him attacked him with deadly force with the only physical evidence for it being a cut on his forehead and some grass stains. They (at least the Chief) still stood by their conclusions as all the evidence was broadcast nationally. They have not disputed these points either. They FUBARed this one, and everyone knows it.

if your such an expert on Homicide Investigations maybe you should go give them a hand.

I could hardly do worse.

 

[Empty Hands]

This wasn't a tragedy, it was cold blooded killing, and not one word from the race haters Al "Tawana Brawley" Sharpton, Jesse "Beer distributor" Jackson or the Black "Clan" panther party...

There probably would be if a bunch of people like yourself tried to find a way to blame it on the little girl.

 

[billc]

Not blaming the teenager empty. I just don't think that zimmerman executed the kid because he was black, which seems to be the sentiment of some here on the site. I think it was a tragic escalation of bad judgement on the part of both zimmerman and martin, that ended up with and innocent teenager getting killed. Race had nothing to do with the death.

 

[ballen0351]

They clearly didn't listen to the 911 tapes.

Well tell me detective what should we have learned from the 911 tapes? I listened to the ones the news played which were only small clips and not nearly all of them.

They corrected witness statements and ignored others.

who did they ignore and correct?

They took an armed man's word that an unarmed kid 100 lbs lighter than him attacked him with deadly force with the only physical evidence for it being a cut on his forehead and some grass stains.

Not sure what weight has to do with anything Georges St-Pierre is just under 100 pounds lighter then me and if he came after me Id shoot him.

They (at least the Chief) still stood by their conclusions as all the evidence was broadcast nationally. They have not disputed these points either.

Why would they? Police departments dont normally provide evidence to prove news stories wrong they have more important things to worry about then what the 6 oclock news is saying.

They FUBARed this one, and everyone knows it.

Na I dont agree. They very well may have and if they did then whoever involved should be fired and if shown they did it on purpose then they should be charged. Ill wait and see how it plays out before I start calling an entire Police Department a bunch of Racists



I could hardly do worse.[/QUOTE]

 

[Empty Hands]

Well tell me detective what should we have learned from the 911 tapes?

That Zimmerman sought out the confrontation, even after the dispatcher said not to. This fact alone demolishes any claim to self-defense. You can't claim self-defense for a confrontation you start. That Zimmerman had already decided that Trayvon was guilty of some offense - "these *******s always get away" - further eroding any claim that Zimmerman did not seek out the confrontation. These two facts alone combined with the shooting would justify arrest and a deeper investigation, a conclusion supported by other non-involved police officers.

who did they ignore and correct?

"Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.

The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help." LINK

"One of the witnesses who heard the crying said she called a detective repeatedly, but said he was not interested because her account differed from Zimmerman’s." LINK

 

[WC_lun]

This really isn't as convoluted as it apears. If Zimmerman confronted the boy at all, he does not have a stand-your-ground defense. You cannot start an altercation and then shoot the person you started the altercation with, regardless of who wound up on top or who is yelling help. If the boy's girlfriend is to be believed then the boy actually went out of his way to avoid confrontation, but was not able to.

Any race can have racist views. Hispanic or caucasion, if Zimmerman did indeed say the word "coon" then there is indeed a racist tone to this story. Not every violent crime as race as part of the equation. However, it is foolish to think that none of them are not motivated by race.

In my opinion, the police did not use proper procedure in this case. I mean really, they did not even take the gun used to kill the kid. Instead they let it go home with Zimmerman. That is not very professional at all.

NO matter how this went down, it is a sad preventable killing. Through Zimmerman, the police had a description of the boy and were on thier way. There is no reason Zimmerman needed to follow the boy nor make any contact with him. It was not his job. A bot is dead and man's freedom is at risk because Zimmerman could not leave the police to do thier job.

 

[shesulsa]

Worth repeating:

More than likely, they didn't "cover up" for Zimmerman - they simply believed him without thinking any more deeply about it. Racism is a lot more than white hoods and active malice. It colors the way people think and perceive the world without necessarily even being conscious.

You know, like a bunch of people on an internet comment thread trying to find reasons why a dead kid might have had it coming when they don't do it for other similar situations.

You got proof they didnt? Nope you have an opinon based on news clips you have no REAL info on the case.

if your such an expert on Homicide Investigations maybe you should go give them a hand.

Young black men have been shot for less.

Listen to the 911 calls on this case for yourself.

Let's see:

We have one person who repeatedly affiliates himself (voluntarily) with reputable, do-good organizations, has a completely clean record, has good grades in school.

We have another person who appears to be hyper-vigilant (voluntarily), appears to have some concern for his community, who has a police record involving violence and who uses racial slurs.

One of them shoots the other. Who is more likely to have the intent to do harm? Logically, the latter.

I just read all 130+ posts on this thread (***except the posts by billcihak that weren't quoted in other posts***) and I'm truly amazed at what I'm reading. If I were a kid walking in a neighborhood that is not my own and some big dude in a truck were following me, I would attempt to try to get a license plate number and/or description (possibly why Trayvon started walking towards the truck) and attempt to display a confident manner while avoiding the individual. I would likely cut across whatever I could to escape someone like this who were chasing me in the dark unless he were a uniformed officer, whereupon I would stop, hands out and wait to be approached, but a large dude in the dark? I'd do anything, make noise, scream for help, FIGHT BACK - anything I could.

I've also listened to all the 911 calls on the link I provided above. It is clear the incident happened in the dark - in the seventh call listed the woman described the scene which was a very short distance from her window. She is completely distraught and her angst audibly increases when she describes a flashlight shining on the shooting victim's body. One caller to 911 described the larger man as black ... it speaks to the amount of light available at the time of the incident.

It appears to me that there is ample reason to arrest Zimmerman on suspicion of murder.

(***NOTE: I only typed this for clarity and honesty.***)