Unarmed Florida Teen Shot

[zDom]

Finding THC has no bearing on the incident other than showing, again, that Trayvon wasn't the 12 year old sweet angel as depicted by the media when the story broke.

I wonder, however, if Zimmerman has cause for a defamation lawsuit against the media that heavily skewed this story to make him look like a racist vigilante.

 

[crushing]

A March 13, 2012 Capias Request indicates ...

"The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog (sic) in an effort to dispel each party's concern" the request said. "There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity."

​

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/17/justice/florida-teen-shooting/?hpt=us_c1

Was the quote above taken out of a more expanded opinion of the events? I can't help but wonder if Martin had beat Zimmerman to death if the entire onus to avoid the situation would have been put on Martin, simply because he happened to be the one to make it out alive.

 

[d1jinx]

I can't help but wonder if Martin had beat Zimmerman to death if the entire onus to avoid the situation would have been put on Martin, simply because he happened to be the one to make it out alive.

the story would have never hit the national media. happens everyday.

 

[granfire]

I wonder, however, if Zimmerman has cause for a defamation lawsuit against the media that heavily skewed this story to make him look like a racist vigilante.

Like that guy who found the bomb in Atlanta, 1996? Right, good luck.

 

[ballen0351]

Like that guy who found the bomb in Atlanta, 1996? Right, good luck.

Richard jewell did win several lawsuits against the media

 

[shesulsa]

Was the quote above taken out of a more expanded opinion of the events? I can't help but wonder if Martin had beat Zimmerman to death if the entire onus to avoid the situation would have been put on Martin, simply because he happened to be the one to make it out alive.

That's an excellent question.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

 

[granfire]

Richard jewell did win several lawsuits against the media

did not repair his reputation.

 

[ballen0351]

did not repair his reputation.

Sure it did he went on to be called a hero by GA Gov. And was able to become a police officer until he died. He was on Sat night live and had small parts in a few movies as well.

 

[Wo Fat]

Was the quote above taken out of a more expanded opinion of the events? I can't help but wonder if Martin had beat Zimmerman to death if the entire onus to avoid the situation would have been put on Martin, simply because he happened to be the one to make it out alive.

Good question. That particular quote is, as you suggest, part of a compilation of evidence that had been posted here already (Trayvon's bruised knuckles, Zimmerman's nose and head wounds, THC traces in Trayvon's system). So the quote, at least in my eyes, is specific--and meaningful--but only within the larger context of reported evidence.

As to the second part of the question, given this particular Prosecutor, I very much think the duty to avoid would have been on Martin if the fight had ended in Zimmerman's death. I say that based on her conviction of a woman in Florida who (a) simply fired a warning shot to neutralize a perceived threat by her boyfriend/husband; and (b) invoked Stand Your Ground as a defense.

 

[billc]

This article looks at the witness who saw martin on top of zimmerman in the "mount," position hitting him MMA style...

http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-crucial-trayvon-martin-evidence-the-media-wont-repeat/2/

The interesting aspect is some legal analysis about zimmerman getting out of the truck...

It is undoubtedly true, in hindsight, that if George Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle there would not have been as great a chance of a conflict, but Cornell Law School professor William Jacobson says that is “legally irrelevant“:

Getting out of the car, in itself, is not provoking the use of force. The prosecution would have to show Zimmerman started the fight, not merely that he was in a place he has a right to be.
Even so, Zimmerman would have had legal protection even if he initiated contact if the counter-force were deadly or threatened serious bodily harm and there was no way to escape. There would be a fact issue if, as some reports say, Zimmerman were on the ground being beaten.
These nuances will be lost in the media blitz, and you will hear how Zimmerman must be guilty because he got out of the car.
​

Trayvon Martin mounted George Zimmerman and began raining strikes down on him for more than 38 seconds, despite the fact that Zimmerman was clearly beaten and cried for help 14 times during that time period.
Legally this is where self-defense law, and possibly the “stand your ground” provision that is part of that law, becomes relevant, and it is the first and only time that it is relevant for either man in this conflict.

 

[Wo Fat]

It is undoubtedly true, in hindsight, that if George Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle there would not have been as great a chance of a conflict, but Cornell Law School professor William Jacobson says that is “legally irrelevant“

What is legally relevant is that Zimmerman already presumed, at minimum, that Trayvon was (a) a crime suspect, and (b) a crime suspect who looked like he was on drugs. For Zimmerman, then, to pursue what he presumed was a crime suspect on drugs, and then leave the safety of his vehicle despite a warning not to ... placed him in a position that could or would render him in a position to defend himself with his firearm.

"State of mind". And it's very relevant.

 

[ballen0351]

Whats also legally relevent is that zimmerman had the same legal right to be where he was as martin did. Its not a crine to follow someone . It is a crine to mount someone and bash their head into the pavment.

 

[Wo Fat]

Whats also legally relevent is that zimmerman had the same legal right to be where he was as martin did. Its not a crine to follow someone . It is a crine to mount someone and bash their head into the pavment.

That both had a right to be where they were, is an undisputed fact.

Contrary to unpopular belief though, it may well be that Martin feared for his safety and stood his ground, armed only with his fists.

 

[MJS]

A March 13, 2012 Capias Request indicates ...

"The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog (sic) in an effort to dispel each party's concern" the request said. "There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity."

​

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/17/justice/florida-teen-shooting/?hpt=us_c1

I was just getting ready to post this. Beat me to it. This is something that I've been saying all along. And yes, as its been said and seems to be the typical reply....its not illegal to follow someone....or is it? Could this be harassment or stalking? What I find interesting is that many will say, if you're getting mugged, cooperate, don't resist, etc. I assume thats being said so as to not provoke the situation anymore than it already is. So, IMO, I'd say the same would apply here....why do something to further provoke the situation? Was TM in the wrong for hitting GZ? Yes and no....depending on what GZ did. Me...I'd probably have turned around and asked why the hell you're following me.

Due to this thread being so long, forgive me if this was already asked/answered, but if Martin wasn't doing anything other than just passing thru, then IMO, GZ is harassing Martin. I take calls all the time from people, who claim there're a group of black kids hanging out on the corner. What're they doing? Nothing, just hanging around. Oh, so SWB? (Standing While Black) Really people....you can't seem to do anything anymore without someone thinking the worst. Have I seen cars and people in my condo complex, that I've never seen before? Sure have. Do I call the cops? No. Nor do I walk out to see whats going on. Could they been staking out the area for a burglary? Sure. But ya know what? Once my head hits the pillow, all the cars and people in the world can come by and I'd never know.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47476961/ns/us_news-christian_science_monitor/

"or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog in an effort to dispel each party's concern," the report said. "There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity at the time of the encounter."
"An anonymous police tipster, meanwhile, suggested that Zimmerman could be confrontational, especially against black people. Zimmerman, who is part-Hispanic, has been described by family members as a social activist who cared about minorities and the downtrodden.
"I don't at all know who this kid was or anything else,” the unnamed caller called told police shortly after the shooting. “But I know George, and I know that he does not like black people. He would start something. He's very confrontational. It's in his blood. We'll just say that.”

 

[MJS]

It is undoubtedly true, in hindsight, that if George Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle there would not have been as great a chance of a conflict, but Cornell Law School professor William Jacobson says that is “

legally irrelevant“:

Getting out of the car, in itself, is not provoking the use of force. The prosecution would have to show Zimmerman started the fight, not merely that he was in a place he has a right to be.​

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm curious...how is him getting out of the car, legally irrelevant? Isn't that provoking the situation? Lets say its road rage. I pull into the parking lot, the guy who thinks I cut him off, follows me in. Badguy either gets out of or stays in his car, and begins to make threats, yelling, etc. I get out of my car, vs. driving away. I'd be willing to bet if I were to get out, I'd be asked why...why didn't you just drive away Mike? If I get out and yell, I'm provoking a response from this guy, and chances are, he'll get out of his car too.
​

 

[granfire]

Sure it did he went on to be called a hero by GA Gov. And was able to become a police officer until he died. He was on Sat night live and had small parts in a few movies as well.

A day late, a dollar short and somewhere on page 35...SNL....

Oh, well. I do concede, they might be bigger news than CNN and Fox combined, one step behind the Daily Show and Colbert....

 

[Wo Fat]

It might be a small piece of evidence, and I'm not sure which side it would help--if at all:

If the convenience store clerk was called to testify at trial about Trayvon Martin's demeanor and behavior in the store, I wonder what he would say?

 

[crushing]

Trayvon Martin mounted George Zimmerman and began raining strikes down on him for more than 38 seconds, despite the fact that Zimmerman was clearly beaten and cried for help 14 times during that time period.
Legally this is where self-defense law, and possibly the “stand your ground” provision that is part of that law, becomes relevant, and it is the first and only time that it is relevant for either man in this conflict.

Maybe I don't completely understand "stand your ground." It seems to me if one person is on his back and other person is in a dominate position and raining down fists that could cause great damage up to and including death, how is the person getting beaten up in a position to retreat? Doesn't "stand your ground" only come in to the discussion if there is a reasonable possibility of or opportunity to retreat? I can understand a case for stand your ground if a person in the same situation used lethal force before being taken to the ground and beaten to death.

 

[d1jinx]

If the convenience store clerk was called to testify at trial about Trayvon Martin's demeanor and behavior in the store, I wonder what he would say?

he was high and had the munchies.

speculating of course.:ultracool

 

[shesulsa]

he was high and had the munchies.

speculating of course.:ultracool

Right, and people like that deserve to die.