Unarmed Florida Teen Shot

[granfire]

Right, and people like that deserve to die.

:lfao:

the question was what the store clerk remembered.....

if anything past 'he was the 10th guy in a hoodie coming in, nope didn't see much of his face, could have been him, or not'

buying canned iced tea ought to be a crime though.....

 

[shesulsa]

I know, I know. It's been a long week. ;-)

 

[punisher73]

"An anonymous police tipster, meanwhile, suggested that Zimmerman could be confrontational, especially against black people. Zimmerman, who is part-Hispanic, has been described by family members as a social activist who cared about minorities and the downtrodden.
"I don't at all know who this kid was or anything else,” the unnamed caller called told police shortly after the shooting. “But I know George, and I know that he does not like black people. He would start something. He's very confrontational. It's in his blood. We'll just say that.”

So much for your right to confront your accusers. I like how the media allows "anonymous" people to say crap like that. What would have happened if an "anonymous caller" said that they knew Martin and that he was always casing neighborhoods to steal stuff?

The jury is only going to see/hear evidence in the trial. The newsmedia is already trying this case through their editorials...I mean reporting. They are reporting news, they are reporting gossip. EVERY little tid bit of info they get whether it can be confirmed or not is plastered on the "news". The more important question is, right or wrong for his actions, do you (general for everyone, not anyone particular) think that Zimmerman can get a fair trial now? Also, if Zimmerman is acquited because almost everything we are hearing is hearsay and NOT admissible as evidence, does anyone really think that the system worked because it was so tainted by the media? The media is trying to create dissension and drama with this story and it has nothing to do with justice.

 

[punisher73]

he was high and had the munchies.

speculating of course.:ultracool

Well according to the latest gossip...I mean news, Martin had THC in his system.

 

[Wo Fat]

So much for your right to confront your accusers. I like how the media allows "anonymous" people to say crap like that. What would have happened if an "anonymous caller" said that they knew Martin and that he was always casing neighborhoods to steal stuff?

The jury is only going to see/hear evidence in the trial. The newsmedia is already trying this case through their editorials...I mean reporting. They are reporting news, they are reporting gossip. EVERY little tid bit of info they get whether it can be confirmed or not is plastered on the "news". The more important question is, right or wrong for his actions, do you (general for everyone, not anyone particular) think that Zimmerman can get a fair trial now? Also, if Zimmerman is acquited because almost everything we are hearing is hearsay and NOT admissible as evidence, does anyone really think that the system worked because it was so tainted by the media? The media is trying to create dissension and drama with this story and it has nothing to do with justice.

While I have been critical of Zimmerman and his actions, I don't put much stock in this particular witness' media statements, any more than I put stock in that wierdo Joe Oliver.

Can Zimmerman get a fair trial? Well, he was granted bail. And after he admitted to misleading the court about having six figures in the bank, he was allowed to remain on bond. I'd say the court is doing OK in the "fairness" department so far. If Zimmerman is acquitted, it will be because the prosecution didn't prove its case with the evidence they have--which is probably more than they have in many garden variety "street" murder cases. Yes, the media brought this case to prominence. It needed to be. Did they move too fast in some areas? Sure. But that doesn't change the facts that an adult killed a teen in circumstances that rise to a level of being highly suspicious and likely unnecessary.

 

[MJS]

So much for your right to confront your accusers. I like how the media allows "anonymous" people to say crap like that. What would have happened if an "anonymous caller" said that they knew Martin and that he was always casing neighborhoods to steal stuff?

Yeah, I know. I deal with anonymous people every day. Unfortunately, I have to treat their calls, despite how much BS I can detect, just like I have to do with those callers that give their name. Of course, as I said earlier in this thread, I have to wonder if there was actually a witness that saw the entire incident, start to finish. Actually, there are witnesses, 2 of them in fact....Martin and Zimmerman. Martin is dead, can't use his side. Zimmerman...well, we'll never know whether or not he's lying or telling the truth. Even if GZ was in the wrong, he'd be a total fool say that he did anything wrong. He's going to make himself seem like the innocent victim, whether he was or was not.

The jury is only going to see/hear evidence in the trial. The newsmedia is already trying this case through their editorials...I mean reporting. They are reporting news, they are reporting gossip. EVERY little tid bit of info they get whether it can be confirmed or not is plastered on the "news". The more important question is, right or wrong for his actions, do you (general for everyone, not anyone particular) think that Zimmerman can get a fair trial now? Also, if Zimmerman is acquited because almost everything we are hearing is hearsay and NOT admissible as evidence, does anyone really think that the system worked because it was so tainted by the media? The media is trying to create dissension and drama with this story and it has nothing to do with justice.

Yes, the media always puts an interesting spin on things..lol. And sadly, we'll probably never know the real story.

 

[punisher73]

While I have been critical of Zimmerman and his actions, I don't put much stock in this particular witness' media statements, any more than I put stock in that wierdo Joe Oliver.

Can Zimmerman get a fair trial? Well, he was granted bail. And after he admitted to misleading the court about having six figures in the bank, he was allowed to remain on bond. I'd say the court is doing OK in the "fairness" department so far. If Zimmerman is acquitted, it will be because the prosecution didn't prove its case with the evidence they have--which is probably more than they have in many garden variety "street" murder cases. Yes, the media brought this case to prominence. It needed to be. Did they move too fast in some areas? Sure. But that doesn't change the facts that an adult killed a teen in circumstances that rise to a level of being highly suspicious and likely unnecessary.

Let's hope it remains that way. I have seen cases both won and lost due to juries that had nothing to do with the evidence presented because of an emotional response.

 

[Wo Fat]

Let's hope it remains that way. I have seen cases both won and lost due to juries that had nothing to do with the evidence presented because of an emotional response.

Let's hope the process remains fair ... or let's hope that Zimmerman's acquitted?

 

[granfire]

Let's hope the process remains fair ... or let's hope that Zimmerman's acquitted?

You are insinuating that an acquittal would be a miscarriage of justice....

 

[Wo Fat]

You are insinuating that an acquittal would be a miscarriage of justice....

No. I was asking for a clarification. I was the one who suggested the possibility of an acquittal.

And even if I did take exception to an acquittal, so what. I'm as entitled to that reasoning as you are to the contrary.

 

[granfire]

No. I was asking for a clarification. I was the one who suggested the possibility of an acquittal.

And even if I did take exception to an acquittal, so what. I'm as entitled to that reasoning as you are to the contrary.

That was not the point.
Yes, you suggested the possibility of an acquittal, but the tone of your post suggests that you already - without further knowledge of the evidence - assume it to be the wrong outcome.

And you are assuming I have any reasoning as to the outcome.
And however your entitlement, should the man be found not guilt (vs innocent) that would be the final word of the justice system.
(alas, I am assuming that in that case the nation would have to brace for LA style riots...oh goody, something to look forward to)

 

[Master Dan]

That was not the point.
Yes, you suggested the possibility of an acquittal, but the tone of your post suggests that you already - without further knowledge of the evidence - assume it to be the wrong outcome.

And you are assuming I have any reasoning as to the outcome.
And however your entitlement, should the man be found not guilt (vs innocent) that would be the final word of the justice system.
(alas, I am assuming that in that case the nation would have to brace for LA style riots...oh goody, something to look forward to)

Sad to say in LA they destroyed most of thier own neighborhood many ethic businesses which the last documetry show i saw a few years ago said that many of the businesses and commercial areas had never recovered from the riots.

Regardless of any posturing for or against Zimerman one fact remains he against orders from dispatch to stay in the car and pursue an unarmed teenager with a gun resulting in his death. How many of you pro or not would do the same? I think not why? because you could get hurt? No becasue inside you know its wrong and wrong gets you hurt financialy physically and legally period. If he survives a criminal charge he will still be vulnerable to a civil wrongful death?

 

[granfire]

Sad to say in LA they destroyed most of thier own neighborhood many ethic businesses which the last documetry show i saw a few years ago said that many of the businesses and commercial areas had never recovered from the riots.

seems like par for the course, really, in retrospect.

Regardless of any posturing for or against Zimerman one fact remains he against orders from dispatch to stay in the car and pursue an unarmed teenager with a gun resulting in his death. How many of you pro or not would do the same? I think not why? because you could get hurt? No becasue inside you know its wrong and wrong gets you hurt financialy physically and legally period. If he survives a criminal charge he will still be vulnerable to a civil wrongful death?

I suppose
A) it has been established that a dispatcher can't order civilians around and
B) what the courts decide is still to be seen. both in criminal as well as civil court.

We really don't know a thing, maybe we will never know for sure.

 

[Wo Fat]

Sad to say in LA they destroyed most of thier own neighborhood many ethic businesses which the last documetry show i saw a few years ago said that many of the businesses and commercial areas had never recovered from the riots.

Regardless of any posturing for or against Zimerman one fact remains he against orders from dispatch to stay in the car and pursue an unarmed teenager with a gun resulting in his death. How many of you pro or not would do the same? I think not why? because you could get hurt? No becasue inside you know its wrong and wrong gets you hurt financialy physically and legally period. If he survives a criminal charge he will still be vulnerable to a civil wrongful death?

Talk of riots are irrelevant. Just a few people's pathetic efforts at stereotyping. Don't fall for the okie doke.

Very true with respect to Zimmerman being told to stand down. And while it wasn't an order from a police officer, it didn't need to be. At least two juries are going to hear that he was told not to follow. It won't matter to those juries whether it was an order from a cop or a dispatcher.

Even if Zimmerman is convicted, I think he will still be sued.

 

[granfire]

Talk of riots are irrelevant. Just a few people's pathetic efforts at stereotyping. Don't fall for the okie doke.

Considering the violence that has been perpetrated in the name of 'Justice for Trayvon Martin' I would be hugely surprised if the police were not to gear up while awaiting the verdict.
As they were in somewhat vaguely similar publicly hyped cases.

And if the verdict is not guilty, and if the mob is rioting, I will gleefully point and laugh at you.
naturally should no riot occur upon an acquittal, feel free do do likewise.

The best indicator for future behavior is past behavior.

 

[Cryozombie]

How many of you pro or not would do the same? I think not why? because you could get hurt? No becasue inside you know its wrong and wrong gets you hurt financialy physically and legally period.

Let me pose a related question, to everyone, not Just Dan. Lets say you ****ed up and found yourself in this position. Maybe you thought you were doing the right thing, maybe you were just trying to be a tough guy... whatever, now **** has gone south, this guy is on top of you pounding your skull into the pavement, no one is responding to your cries for help and you think "ohshitohshitohshitohshitImgonnadie".

How many of you would go "Well, I ****ed up by following him, so this is my fault I deserve to die" and let him kill you?

How many of you would Shoot to save yourselves?

OR: To put it another way: Just because Zimmerman was a douchebag who doesn't listen, did he deserve to be killed by Travon?

 

[Cryozombie]

The more I hear about this, the more I'm thinking of the term "Mutual Combatants".

 

[shesulsa]

Let me pose a related question, to everyone, not Just Dan. Lets say you ****ed up and found yourself in this position. Maybe you thought you were doing the right thing, maybe you were just trying to be a tough guy... whatever, now **** has gone south, this guy is on top of you pounding your skull into the pavement, no one is responding to your cries for help and you think "ohshitohshitohshitohshitImgonnadie".

How many of you would go "Well, I ****ed up by following him, so this is my fault I deserve to die" and let him kill you?

How many of you would Shoot to save yourselves?

OR: To put it another way: Just because Zimmerman was a douchebag who doesn't listen, did he deserve to be killed by Travon?

No - but he deserves to pay for his douchebaginess. Because he KNEW he effed up. He KNEW he was going against what he should do. There was just NO REASON to tail this guy, cops were on the way. Zimmerman reported that he was walking around looking high with something in his hands. This just doesn't sound like a situation I would want to approach unless it looked like he was clearly engaged in some kind of activity that was blatantly illegal or dangerous. He didn't deserve to get killed by Trayvon ... but he still screwed up and should pay for it.

 

[crushing]

Very true with respect to Zimmerman being told to stand down. And while it wasn't an order from a police officer, it didn't need to be. At least two juries are going to hear that he was told not to follow. It won't matter to those juries whether it was an order from a cop or a dispatcher.

Even if Zimmerman is convicted, I think he will still be sued.

"We don't need you to do that" means different things to different people. I think you are correct that a lawyer may be able to convince a jury that this statement should have been understood by Zimmerman to be an order or request to stand down. That may not matter if the evidence shows that Zimmerman was returning to his vehicle at the time that he was beaten.

 

[granfire]

No - but he deserves to pay for his douchebaginess. Because he KNEW he effed up. He KNEW he was going against what he should do. There was just NO REASON to tail this guy, cops were on the way. Zimmerman reported that he was walking around looking high with something in his hands. This just doesn't sound like a situation I would want to approach unless it looked like he was clearly engaged in some kind of activity that was blatantly illegal or dangerous. He didn't deserve to get killed by Trayvon ... but he still screwed up and should pay for it.

Well, I suppose it remains to be seen if he was douche baggy. Or if douche bag met douche nozzle....

If the person he followed would have turned out to be one of the burglars - aside from not making the news - he would be the neighborhood's hero....