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So, is there no such thing as 'objective'? I believe there is. However, in certain arena's objectivity is more difficult to come by.theletch1 said:My dad used to say that there were three sides to every story...My side, your side and the truth. No two people are going to view any particular situation in the same light. Even someone who believes that they are giving the "honest truth" are giving that truth based on their own past experiences, their own belief system and preconcieved notions.
Technopunk said:I'd agree with Mike on that...
Also, IMO, I would use the term "Biased" to describe someone who ignores/changes facts and or Evidence, to make his point...
For a Fictonal Example, Lets say President "Goober" vetos a gun controll bill, stating it violates constitutional rights. But President "Goober" also approves a lot of anti-crime legislation.
Then Filmmaker "Mike Miller" comes along and makes a movie about President "Goober" supporting crime because he vetoed that Gun Controll bill, and he protrays "Goober" as a crime loving, gang helping, guntoting anti-american leader, by showing things out of context and ignoring all of his anti-crime legislation...
THAT is Bias, as far as I am concerned.
shesulsa said:Techno -
Well, crap, then we have to discuss hipocracy. I think your example of President Goober(face) demonstrates hipocracy on his part based on personal and political bias.
But I think you're correct on the Michael Moore thing. I have only seen one Moore film - Bowling for Columbine - and I plan to see more.
Hugs, Techno!!
Technopunk said:Hey... I wasn't saying anything about Moore... I know he is a hotspot of debate, so I MIGHT have used the example of a filmmaker because people recognize that... but It was a purely fictional example.
Agreed, but that depends on if the other person truely believes hes "wrong" or "lost". Sometimes people assume they have "won" and the other person should just lie down. I have seen very few to nobody admit "loosing" in an arguement on either the internet or in person. Most people show up a few weeks or months later with a different opinion.Tulisan said:I agree. However, when you are able to think critically, sometimes you do "flip sides."
I went from being for national registries and some level of gun control to being very much against national registries and gun control when I got more information about the subject.
I guess, I am not afraid to admit it when I am wrong, as much as I hate to sometimes. Most people are very afraid to ever admit to being wrong, even when they clearly are. I see many other people as being big wossy babies who hold on to their little opinions like a security blanket.
That's just my take, anyhow.
Tgace said:Agreed, but that depends on if the other person truely believes hes "wrong" or "lost". Sometimes people assume they have "won" and the other person should just lie down. I have seen very few to nobody admit "loosing" in an arguement on either the internet or in person. Most people show up a few weeks or months later with a different opinion.
Which is the only benefit to debating like we do here. We do have an influence on each other even if its only to force us to put our opinions down in type so we can better understand what it is we really believe.Tulisan said:Holy crud....that is hilarious Tgace...because it's SOOO true! :rofl:
I tell my students all the time that writing is thinking in front of your eyes.Tgace said:Which is the only benefit to debating like we do here. We do have an influence on each other even if its only to force us to put our opinions down in type so we can better understand what it is we really believe.
There is no "truth" or "now" that is absolute. Just the path we walk through the great cosmic dance.
But those truths are very subjective, thus negating their absolutiveness (yes, I made that word up, but it works.) What I mean is that they are not "transferrable" to my consciousness without being inherently changed.heretic888 said:Oh, I'd say there most definately is.
Problem is, of course, that It can't really be expressed in words without creating paradox and contradiction. Guess that leaves most of us stuck with relative truth --- then again, not all relative "truths" are equally valid or substantial.
Laterz.
That's the point, subjectivity is what an opinion is because of all the influences on a person (emotion, maturity, intellect, experience, environment...). This does not invalidate an opinion in and of itself. My mother is as homespun a little Okinawan woman as you can find, but I value her subjectivity on the world and life in so many ways. And there are tons of 'experts' out there with clinical data that I could care less about.heretic888 said:This might be another shock, but "subjective" and "invalid" are not synonyms. Nor are "objective" and "valid".
Laterz.