Tyson vs Paul

[HighKick]

MMA = Mixed Martial Arts right? It's not a system. It's a competition for Martial Artists. It is similar to Lei Tai which is a type of martial art competition open to all marital arts where they fight against each other. MMA is Martial Arts competition for martial artists.


Of course it does. This one you'll have to explain because to me that logic doesn't make sense.

MMA is an amalgamation of several MA's and non-MA's competition tools. A bastard child (no disrespect intended) that finds effective tools regardless of where they come from. Good? Bad? Everyone has their opinion.

Sure, there are commonalities from movements/techniques done centuries/decades ago. But refinement better be part of any persons training/learning or what they learn will soon be outdated. The hard part for TMA instructors with some people it to keep the valid parts of history relevant and connected to today's methods.
This puts even more responsibility on instructors to continue their training and stay relevant. Face it, this world is never going to stop changing.

 

[JowGaWolf]

MMA is an amalgamation of several MA's and non-MA's competition tools.

I don't even know what you are saying. What is a non-MA's competition tool? Or better yet. What do you think is a MA's competition tool?

A bastard child (no disrespect intended) that finds effective tools regardless of where they come from.

This is the definition of TMA. You can find "cross pollination" among different systems having the same techniques. Jow Ga Kung Fu is made of 3 different fighting systems. The founder took what he found useful from each system and combined them to make one system. This is the same thing MMA fighters do on an individual level. The only difference is that they aren't creating systems.

But refinement better be part of any persons training/learning or what they learn will soon be outdated.

People who train TMA application for use in the context of System A vs System B do not have any problems with this. When I train with BJJ practitioners I don't have any problems using any of my TMA techniques. In reality, I use 2 techniques. Taiji push hand for sensitivity and a Jow Ga technique called "wrap the mummy" I'm able to use that same Jow Ga technique against grapplers and boxers. This technique comes natural for me now and I look at ease when applying it. The people who have trouble with what you state are people who don't train application and people who don't train System A vs System B.

The hard part for TMA instructors with some people it to keep the valid parts of history relevant and connected to today's methods.

It's not difficult. Learn to apply the technique and then train System A vs System B. "Family doesn't fight family" as fact you will discover that your techniques are easier to pull off when it's "System A vs System B" You'll discover that that some techniques work really well against one system and not against another system. The Jow Ga technique Wrap the mummy works well against boxers and grapplers but not so good against Wing Chun. By training System A vs System B, I learn when to apply the technique and against whom. I learn the limitations of it and what types of things make it difficult to pull off.

The problem isn't the History of TMA, the problem is that too many people don't know how to use it and too many people don't care about learning how to apply it. There is nothing I had to modernize with Jow Ga in order to make it work. I think people who say that a technique needs to be modernized are those who don't understand how that particular technique works. People in this forum used wo wonder how I was able to hit people with my long fist techniques. Some thought it was too slow. Now you seem the same technique in MMA knocking people out. I understand why the technique works and I know what breaks the technique. The only reason I understand it because I trained to used it and I failed many times before I understood it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

MMA is an amalgamation of several MA's and non-MA's competition tools. A bastard child (no disrespect intended) that finds effective tools regardless of where they come from. Good? Bad? Everyone has their opinion.

Sure, there are commonalities from movements/techniques done centuries/decades ago. But refinement better be part of any persons training/learning or what they learn will soon be outdated. The hard part for TMA instructors with some people it to keep the valid parts of history relevant and connected to today's methods.
This puts even more responsibility on instructors to continue their training and stay relevant. Face it, this world is never going to stop changing.

If you train TMA techniques and do it in a way where you aren't trying to modernize it, then you will gain a lot of martial art knowledge just from that one experience. Train it and use it. Learn through the 20 or 30 failures on the 31st try it will click and you will understand. When people try to modernize a TMA technique, they often break the technique.

 

[Sammy Naur]

A leading behavioral analyst gives his conclusion at 37:06 to whether the Paul vs Tyson fight was staged.

Sorry but that guy is not a "leading" behavioral analyst, he Bedros "Spidey" Akkelian, and is a professional entertainer, mentalist, hypnotist, and magician. That is all pseudoscience. This would be like David Blaine or Chris Angel giving us their "expert" opinion on a boxing match.

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Spidey | Mentalist Magician | | Behavioral Analyst

Spidey is YouTube star with 150M+ views, named US Mentalist of the Year and has performed on NBC’s TODAY Show, TMZ and Rachael Ray! He’s also a favourite with major celebrities, having performed for Jennifer Lopez, Steve Harvey, Neil Patrick Harris and more. He joined the cast of CW’s Masters of...

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Marvin, I understand that you are suspicious of the fight, but these videos are really just fishing for clicks, and I don't think they support your theory that the fight was a work. It just didn't live up to the hype, imho, and these videos are designed to make money while feeding into your confirmation bias.

You can find videos just like this supporting Flat Earth, vaccine conspiracies, and school shootings being false flags.

 

[marvin8]

Sorry but that guy is not a "leading" behavioral analyst, he Bedros "Spidey" Akkelian, and is a professional entertainer, mentalist, hypnotist, and magician.

Yes, he is. Bedros' behavioral analyst credentials are found on his website I posted and his work on youtube. If you dispute that, please give your reasons.

That is all pseudoscience.

No, it's not. Behavioral analysis is the science and study of human behavior. It's used by the FBI, LE, etc.

This would be like David Blaine or Chris Angel giving us their "expert" opinion on a boxing match.

No, Blaine and Angel are not considered leading behavioral analysts.

Marvin, I understand that you are suspicious of the fight, but these videos are really just fishing for clicks, and I don't think they support your theory that the fight was a work.

IMO, the fight was staged. I posted my reasons and fight clip which are supported by Bedros' analysis.

It just didn't live up to the hype, imho,

What are your arguments that support it was a professional fight not staged?

and these videos are designed to make money while feeding into your confirmation bias.

Arguing videos make money is not a valid agruement. That does not prove your point that Paul vs Tyson was a professional fight.

 

[Sammy Naur]

Yes, he is. Bedros' behavioral analyst credentials are found on his website I posted and his work on youtube. If you dispute that, please give your reasons.


No, it's not. Behavioral analysis is the science and study of human behavior. It's used by the FBI, LE, etc.


No, Blaine and Angel are not considered leading behavioral analysts.


IMO, the fight was staged. I posted my reasons and fight clip which are supported by Bedros' analysis.


What are your arguments that support it was a professional fight not staged?


Arguing videos make money is not a valid agruement. That does not prove your point that Paul vs Tyson was a professional fight.

It was a professionally licensed fight by

Combative Sports Homepage

A code enforcement officer is an agent of the state or a political subdivision who engages in code enforcement and has one year or more of experience in the field of code enforcement.

www.tdlr.texas.gov

Bedros Akkelian is not an expert in this subject.

Sorry.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Sorry but that guy is not a "leading" behavioral analyst, he Bedros "Spidey" Akkelian, and is a professional entertainer, mentalist, hypnotist, and magician. That is all pseudoscience. This would be like David Blaine or Chris Angel giving us their "expert" opinion on a boxing match.

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Spidey | Mentalist Magician | | Behavioral Analyst

Spidey is YouTube star with 150M+ views, named US Mentalist of the Year and has performed on NBC’s TODAY Show, TMZ and Rachael Ray! He’s also a favourite with major celebrities, having performed for Jennifer Lopez, Steve Harvey, Neil Patrick Harris and more. He joined the cast of CW’s Masters of...

spideymagic.com

Marvin, I understand that you are suspicious of the fight, but these videos are really just fishing for clicks, and I don't think they support your theory that the fight was a work. It just didn't live up to the hype, imho, and these videos are designed to make money while feeding into your confirmation bias.

You can find videos just like this supporting Flat Earth, vaccine conspiracies, and school shootings being false flags.

This is just the times we live in. Everything is Rigged, Everything is a Conspiracy when it doesn't go the way people expect. It's a really bad mindset to have and eventually there will be a hard lesson to learn from this type of logic. There's always a price to pay. The one thing people fail to understand is that they were getting their money regardless. All they had to do was show up. They could have easily just done a good sparring session but the couldn't even do that.
There is more action in this sparring session than there was in the Paul vs Tyson Fight.

If they couldn't pull off a simple sparring session then that means something unexpected happened. Tyson was hospitalized and showed up to a fight with a bad knee at 58. The crazy part is the expectation that Tyson was going to show up with the same ability that he would have had when he was 30.

There's BS with people talking about that it was scripted, and the proof was that Jake Paul didn't want to knock Tyson out and that he wanted to give a show, and the response from that video was that this was a real fight and in real fights people go all out. WTF? I guess that guy would said that has never been in a fight where he could have really caused great harm.

This is the reality

Same guy telling his son not to hit the guy in the face.

Again. This not the exception in combat sports.

 

[Sammy Naur]

Bedros' behavioral analyst credentials are found on his website I posted and his work on youtube. If you dispute that, please give your reasons.

Bedro's is just some guy with some basic degrees, a YouTube channel, and some followers

He's clearly not an expert in anything, and I don't see anywhere about him helping law enforcement, or being a leading academic or anything.

YouTube videos aren't generally good evidence of anything.

But getting back to "proving my point" the fight was a professional one, the license is on file with the State of Texas (just like every other fight on the card).

You are essentially arguing a crime was committed...so...why is the burden on me to prove "points".

Your last supporting argument was as a video from some random illusionist who you called "leading".

Not trying to give you a hard time but you're basically calling out everything from Texas law to one of the greatest pro heavyweights in history.

 

[marvin8]

It was a professionally licensed fight by

Right. But, what are your arguments that support it was not staged?

Bedros Akkelian is not an expert in this subject.

Please give your reasons why you think this?

 

[Sammy Naur]

that Jake Paul didn't want to knock Tyson out

I don't think he could have.

I definitely don't think anyone here could either, compromised knee or not.

 

[Sammy Naur]

Right. But, what are your arguments that support it was not staged?


Please give your reasons why you think this?

Staged means faked, like a wrestling work.

Those are real strikes registered on the Compubox. They arent fake. Not like WWE fake.

Feints and draws and evasion are a normal part of boxing, but I'm seeing non boxers commenting as if that's proof of fakery.

Why do I think Bedro's isn't an expert? He's not a boxer. He's got practically no qualifications that I can find in any serious analysis. Just another YouTuber claiming to be an authority.

If you can find some sort of FBI or law enforcement cases, or civil/criminal matters that didn't involved click bait and likes I would be glad to entertain them.

He's an influencer, they don't typically get considered serious by authorities.

 

[Sammy Naur]

Please give your reasons why you think this?

So let's try that.

What are Bedros Akkelian's boxing creds? If he has none and I believe that's the case, where would his so called "behavioral analysis" skills be applicable?

 

[marvin8]

Staged means faked, like a wrestling work.

Staged means Jake and Mike had an agreement on the outcome of the fight.

Those are real strikes registered on the Compubox. They arent fake. Not like WWE fake.

Feints and draws and evasion are a normal part of boxing, but I'm seeing non boxers commenting as if that's proof of fakery.

Right. Mike landed 18 punches. But again, what are your arguments that support the fight was not staged?

 

[Sammy Naur]

Staged means Jake and Mike had an agreement on the outcome of the fight.

That would be illegal, especially in the sports bettimg world and there is no evidence of that

More, Tyson had no incentive to allow Paul to win, even if he was the favorite.

Right. Mike landed 18 punches. But again, what are your arguments that support the fight was not staged?

He landed 18 because Paul was just able to stay out of range, and the rounds were shorter and the number was smaller.

If it was stage, both Paul and Tyson could be throw in jail for fraud, along with anyone else involved. And sued into poverty.

Professional, licensed, and sanctioned fights don't allow that sort of thing, and the liabilities to all parties involved would ruin them.

The more likely case is Mike is older and slowe and Paul played for decision. He didn't have to clinch, and if you don't watch the early fight, he tried and quickly got hammered.

Boxing 101.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

Spidey is a magician, mentalist and YouTuber. Behavioural analysis is one area which mentalists claim to be experts, but it is worth remembering that magicians and mentalists excel in the art of deception and showmanship. Magicians and mentalists are not scientists, they are entertainers who use skills of persuasion to convince and deceive the general public in many ways.

Spidey knows making a video about the Mike Tyson and Jake Paul's Netflix event will bring him lots of additional views and it is really amusing to see him being referenced here on martial talk as some kind of authority.

The fight was licenced and sanctioned as a professional bout. Viewing figures were historic. Lots of money was made and there were some great boxing matches on the undercard. Jake Paul thrives on controversy and publicity. Give it a few more weeks and people will have moved on to a new topic of discussion.

Incidentally, there has been talk of the WWE looking to create an event with Mike Tyson in 2025 and if that happens you can guarantee it will be staged.