Hey how come everyone is all caught up on what is what and whose is better (no offense). There are two fundamental ways that you would want to learn ninjutsu: you either want to become a ninja like in the old days of Japan (the weird thing is im black) or you want to learn it for self defense. Most people want do it to learn how to defend themself which is alright. now if Traditional was translated and taught by the japanese in the mountains an in that terrain then there training, if taught the exact same way all the way in to the present, would be extremely piontless and hard to adapt unless he lived on the concrete. Then there is the modern, which is weird because ninjutsu is not new, but what ever, then they have incorporated the rule of concrete, so if there aint no trees around then what you gonna do, which is the stuff of today then there "version" of ninjutsu would be more "concrete" happy, ya know. If you jump off a 11 or twelve foot branch into the street or on hard ground ya'll know what i mean. Let me know what you think okay. No arguements singling people out pleeease.
traditional/Neo
- Thread starter ninhito
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Ninhito,
With all due respect, I do not think you know enough of the situation to comment on it with any degree of credibility.
Traditional ninjutsu is not something taught to fight in the old style. For the purposes of Martialtalk.com it merely means that it is an art that comes from Japan. No one really is interested in saying that either modern or traditional is better than the other. Masaaki Hatsumi has a book out on using a knife and pistol for combat. That hardly fits with the way you described a traditional way of training.
The problem began when there were people who started their own modern version of ninjutsu that was not in line with what is done in Japan. The way they move, strategies for combat, etc, were different from the three originizations that are found in Japan. Does that mean they are better, worse? Not in the least. But it did make conversations difficult since the terms, etc, that one group used were not the same as the other.
Perhaps if you sat back and read some of the many, many threads that have been going on you will come to understand the subject matter better. I do not know your age or your background, but you strike me as rather young and inexperienced. If you care to learn about ninjutsu and discuss the subject, maybe you might want to join a dojo and see what it is like first hand. The art is not for everyone, but I enjoy it. Perhaps you would too. You do seem to have an interest in it based on your posts here. But, based on what you write here, you do not seem to have all that much experience in the subject.
With all due respect, I do not think you know enough of the situation to comment on it with any degree of credibility.
Traditional ninjutsu is not something taught to fight in the old style. For the purposes of Martialtalk.com it merely means that it is an art that comes from Japan. No one really is interested in saying that either modern or traditional is better than the other. Masaaki Hatsumi has a book out on using a knife and pistol for combat. That hardly fits with the way you described a traditional way of training.
The problem began when there were people who started their own modern version of ninjutsu that was not in line with what is done in Japan. The way they move, strategies for combat, etc, were different from the three originizations that are found in Japan. Does that mean they are better, worse? Not in the least. But it did make conversations difficult since the terms, etc, that one group used were not the same as the other.
Perhaps if you sat back and read some of the many, many threads that have been going on you will come to understand the subject matter better. I do not know your age or your background, but you strike me as rather young and inexperienced. If you care to learn about ninjutsu and discuss the subject, maybe you might want to join a dojo and see what it is like first hand. The art is not for everyone, but I enjoy it. Perhaps you would too. You do seem to have an interest in it based on your posts here. But, based on what you write here, you do not seem to have all that much experience in the subject.
A
AnimEdge
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ninhito said:If you jump off a 11 or twelve foot branch into the street or on hard ground ya'll know what i mean.You have never seen Parkour
And i have to agree with Don you dont seam to have enough experence to make a valid judgment on what is what in ninjutsu
Enson
3rd Black Belt
i don't think your post calls for any arguements or the likes... i do want to encourage you, like don, to look up past threads.ninhito said:
no one has said which is better or worse. it is a matter of preference and self study. if you find modern more suited to your personality and personal philosophies of combat then you should go that route... and vice versa.
i would also encourage you to sit in on both schools if you can or visit their websites to get a better view point of what i'm talking about.
peace
Enson
3rd Black Belt
artyon: :mp5: :idunno: double post. server problems :uhyeah:
- Thread Starter
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Thanks i should do that. Hmmm I wonder why it seems like there is such a fissure between the modern and traditional. it doesnt seem wrong except the Tew thing where he didnt agree with the way Hatsumi trained or something like that (read a post that said something to that degree). I guess that is why he made his own "style" of ninjutsu. Hmmm i want to learn, what are the diferences in strategies? What are the differences in the three X-Kan? I looked at the ninja faq and it didnt really tell me the differences. Hmm and with that i shutup.
Nihito,ninhito said:
Give the search feature a try. All of these questions have been discussed many times over.
Jeff
A
AnimEdge
Guest
I think the only bad thing about Modern is that when the Traditional guys start speaking about tech.s by tehre japanese names, that i have no idea what there talking about, even if i know the tech if i saw it
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Well... yeah. But we dont call our techniques "Stepping back raising foot downblock strike." We call that "Hicho"AnimEdge said:
Class would take forever if we didn't.
Enson
3rd Black Belt
bless you!Technopunk said:We call that "Hicho"
did you sneeze? :rofl:i know what you are saying, but i also know what anime is saying. i'm in the same boat. alot of the japanese terms have been taken out of our art. simplifies things for me. i guess i'm not as smart as others here.
peace
- Thread Starter
- #11
i did that already. I looked at the ninja faq and that was very vague. Hmmm... MAN THERE ALOT OF THREADS HERE!!!! YOU EXPECT ME TO READ ALL THIS JUST TO FIND MY INFORMATION OMGOSH!!!!! I feel like im reading a book. Only this book makes no sense except its all about ninjutsu.
Enson
3rd Black Belt
unfortunaley the differences were discussed through out many different threads. so to find one that discusses the differences will be hard to find. look up some of the threads on 'hayes' to get an idea.peace
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Honestly tho...Enson said:bless you!
i know what you are saying, but i also know what anime is saying. i'm in the same boat. alot of the japanese terms have been taken out of our art. simplifies things for me. i guess i'm not as smart as others here.
peace
How much clarification would you get if I said "Start in Hicho" or If I said start in "Flying Bird". I used the english term, but I bet it still made no sense...
A
AaronLucia
Guest
Well, if youv'e ever seen Karate Kid you might know what 'Flying Bird' is.
Funny thing for me is that it has been years since I studied ninjitsu, where I only achieved 5th kyu, but I can still roll terms for techniques, kamae etc. In fact it is hard for me at times to look at techniques in other arts and not think, ganseki, take ori, ichimonji no kame Hmm, come to think of it, I can still perform most it...granted my ukemi isn't what it used to be =)
Actually, I find learning the "foreign" terminology easier because it stands out in my mind. Of course translations like "Breaking Bamboo" are sure easy to remember when you think about the gruesome nature of some of the techniques!
Hmm, come to think of it, I can still perform most it...granted my ukemi isn't what it used to be =)Actually, I find learning the "foreign" terminology easier because it stands out in my mind. Of course translations like "Breaking Bamboo" are sure easy to remember when you think about the gruesome nature of some of the techniques!
Not to mention that when Hatsumi says "Hicho" everyone (in the Bujinkan) knows what he is talking about, but the term "flyig bird" would only go over with the English speakers.
And there are concepts such as kuzushi that I do not see in many "neo" arts. The way an art looks at combat can change little things that may not be noticed by the typical person, but are there. They may seem to be small differences, but they are very important. I am talking about things like how many arts hit and snap back, but the Bujinkan hits slower and does not retract as often. It seems small, but when you factor in kuzushi it makes more sense. If you try to do one way of striking without taking the whole art and it's approach towards combat, you end up with something like Frankenstien's monster.
And there are concepts such as kuzushi that I do not see in many "neo" arts. The way an art looks at combat can change little things that may not be noticed by the typical person, but are there. They may seem to be small differences, but they are very important. I am talking about things like how many arts hit and snap back, but the Bujinkan hits slower and does not retract as often. It seems small, but when you factor in kuzushi it makes more sense. If you try to do one way of striking without taking the whole art and it's approach towards combat, you end up with something like Frankenstien's monster.
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Ah... Daniel-san...AaronLucia said:Well, if youv'e ever seen Karate Kid you might know what 'Flying Bird' is.
How you say... WRONG TECHNIQUE.
Bester
<font color=blue><B>Grand UberSoke, Sith-jutsu Ryu
Ninhito, why don't you just ask us all your questions, and we will be more than happy to do all the searching for you. We're out of Silver Platters however, so you'll have to take paper.
The question "What is "Traditional Ninjutsu"?" was answered in that thread.
The question "What are the differences?" was answered in the Ninja Forum FAQ.
A more indepth answer as to what each of the Kans cover and their histories is easily found by visiting their websites, linked to inside the FAQ.
What is "Modern" is currently being defined by those who currently study those systems. The 2 branches here include:
- The "In Name Onlys" such as Kim, Dux and Tew.
- The "I studied in a Kan, but added my own twists to it" such as Hayes.
Ninjutsu, and all legit arts have nothing to do with anime, sci-fi, comic books or what you see in the movies. Ninjas do not walk through walls, have super powers, or do "hang time" ala the Matrix. To believe otherwise is to prove ones own stupidity.
This forum has numerous people currently "walking the walk". They are more than willing to advise, but will not waste their time on those too lazy to do some reading on their own.
The question "What is "Traditional Ninjutsu"?" was answered in that thread.
The question "What are the differences?" was answered in the Ninja Forum FAQ.
A more indepth answer as to what each of the Kans cover and their histories is easily found by visiting their websites, linked to inside the FAQ.
What is "Modern" is currently being defined by those who currently study those systems. The 2 branches here include:
- The "In Name Onlys" such as Kim, Dux and Tew.
- The "I studied in a Kan, but added my own twists to it" such as Hayes.
Ninjutsu, and all legit arts have nothing to do with anime, sci-fi, comic books or what you see in the movies. Ninjas do not walk through walls, have super powers, or do "hang time" ala the Matrix. To believe otherwise is to prove ones own stupidity.
This forum has numerous people currently "walking the walk". They are more than willing to advise, but will not waste their time on those too lazy to do some reading on their own.
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