It would mean disavowal of things you already know to be true perhaps?
"Traditional Marriage" ??
- Thread starter Bob Hubbard
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There was a time when I could. Over the years I found faith to be lacking.
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Omar B
Senior Master
Love the new pic
ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
So how do you deal with situations where there is no answer? Ive seen and been involved in things that I and one time others with me cant find any scientific reason for.
I don't manufacture one. And I have found that almost always, a naturalistic explanation can be found.
Then there are illusions as well. The mind is a powerful thing. Something doesn't even have time be THERE for us to see it.
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And honestly, I have yet to see something there was no answer for. You can't prove scientifically that there is no answer for something, because you can't prove a negative statement
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ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
Maybe but myself and 3 other officers with me can tell you a story none of us can explain
Omar B
Senior Master
3 people who can't explain something hardly makes something devine. Just perplexing.
This lady on my street had these two mentally handicapped kids and if they ever got out the front door they could never find their way back into the house. Not because the door dissapeared, or moved, they from their standpoint could not crack the case of the missing front door. Can't tell you how many times I had to walk 1 or both of these two out of my yard and back to their own yard repeatedly till I got the idea and left them directly at the door.
This lady on my street had these two mentally handicapped kids and if they ever got out the front door they could never find their way back into the house. Not because the door dissapeared, or moved, they from their standpoint could not crack the case of the missing front door. Can't tell you how many times I had to walk 1 or both of these two out of my yard and back to their own yard repeatedly till I got the idea and left them directly at the door.
ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
Omar B
Senior Master
I am pointing out that we understand what we are able to. I look on dirt and see dirt, my dad's a metallurgist, he can tell you what it's made of in what ratios and even it's value on the open market ... but then I'm not a scientist.
My mother and step-dad are economists. I remember years ago when they were both talking to my aunt (who had become a mortgage banker) admonishing here about loan piolicies and how the bottom of the market was gonna fall out. They were right years ago.
If I were to draw a hemiola on the blackboard in front of you and ask you what it is, could you identify it? I bet you can't because you are not a musician who has a deep knowledge of music theory. Again, we understand what we can within our own limitations.
My mother and step-dad are economists. I remember years ago when they were both talking to my aunt (who had become a mortgage banker) admonishing here about loan piolicies and how the bottom of the market was gonna fall out. They were right years ago.
If I were to draw a hemiola on the blackboard in front of you and ask you what it is, could you identify it? I bet you can't because you are not a musician who has a deep knowledge of music theory. Again, we understand what we can within our own limitations.
ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
True but we all know how to open a door and we all have pretty good hearing. You may have never experienced something unexplainable
But i have and you can choose to discount it and compare it to two handicap kids that cant find a door it makea it no less true.
But i have and you can choose to discount it and compare it to two handicap kids that cant find a door it makea it no less true.
Omar B
Senior Master
No I don't doubt that you have experienced something ... which you have yet to hip any of us to (unless I don't wanna know). But it doesnt change the fact that our knowledge shades our understanding and experience of the worlds around us. Northern lights are magic to some, a perfectly normal phenomena to others, depending on knowledge. I don't know why it takes 3 posts to explain it, maybe it was Josh's post before mine and the retard story that throws you off.
I don't want to demean you, john, and I sincerely hope you are not taking my posts as such. So do please understand that when I post my replies, it is out of respectful dissent, not dismissive derision.
There are things that happen in our world that surpass our understanding all the time. It is in fact the very reason science came about in the first place. Both science and faith are our attempts to understand those things and encapsulate our understanding of those things into a greater picture of the universe.
Where science and faith break from each other, sharply are in these key areas:
1) Science is never satisfied with its own findings. The process of science is continually refining itself, willing to throw out even the most basic and fundamental assumptions in favor of prevalent observations.
2) Science is not ever satisfied with its current ability to observe the natural world. This is the reason for telescopes, microscopes, spectrometers, chromatographs, and other tools that are used in the pursuit of more accurate and comprehensive observation of the universe.
3) Science, most vehemently, does NOT provide answers. Science is and only ever will be a method of asking questions, testing assumptions, collecting observations, and deriving implications of those observations.
4) The basic method of science is an attempt to DISPROVE assumptions. Science doesn't prove anything with a sense of finality; all scientific conclusions are contingent upon their agreement with further observation.
In all these respects, science is the opposite of faith. This is why the naturalistic, scientific approach is ever at odds with the supernaturalistic, faith-based approach. In other words, science will never be good enough for the pastor, and faith will never be good enough for the scientist.
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There are things that happen in our world that surpass our understanding all the time. It is in fact the very reason science came about in the first place. Both science and faith are our attempts to understand those things and encapsulate our understanding of those things into a greater picture of the universe.
Where science and faith break from each other, sharply are in these key areas:
1) Science is never satisfied with its own findings. The process of science is continually refining itself, willing to throw out even the most basic and fundamental assumptions in favor of prevalent observations.
2) Science is not ever satisfied with its current ability to observe the natural world. This is the reason for telescopes, microscopes, spectrometers, chromatographs, and other tools that are used in the pursuit of more accurate and comprehensive observation of the universe.
3) Science, most vehemently, does NOT provide answers. Science is and only ever will be a method of asking questions, testing assumptions, collecting observations, and deriving implications of those observations.
4) The basic method of science is an attempt to DISPROVE assumptions. Science doesn't prove anything with a sense of finality; all scientific conclusions are contingent upon their agreement with further observation.
In all these respects, science is the opposite of faith. This is why the naturalistic, scientific approach is ever at odds with the supernaturalistic, faith-based approach. In other words, science will never be good enough for the pastor, and faith will never be good enough for the scientist.
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ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
Just kind of a long story is all.
Its not throwing me off I understand your point. I just disagree. There are things that happen that are not of this world. If you have never had anything like that happen its hard to believe and I never did either until it happened to me
1)unless it's global warming
2)unless those instruments dispute global warming
3)except for the theory of man made global warming
4)unless it involves global warming in which case evidence will be destroyed, scientists with contrary theories will be smeared and have their careers put at risk, and won't get tenure or research grants...
Then we can talk about archeology fueds, and other scientific disputes that involve fossil fuels vs. "green" energy...
2)unless those instruments dispute global warming
3)except for the theory of man made global warming
4)unless it involves global warming in which case evidence will be destroyed, scientists with contrary theories will be smeared and have their careers put at risk, and won't get tenure or research grants...
Then we can talk about archeology fueds, and other scientific disputes that involve fossil fuels vs. "green" energy...
ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
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You're talking about politics getting in the way of science, not science itself. Compare it to political getting in the way of practicing one's faith or religion appropriately, and you might see the difference. And I have been a chaplain assistant for 12 years. I know for a FACT that it happens.
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..the reason you are here Josh? You have the scientific answer for this that is not caught in metaphysics or philosophy?
no Omar you have not replied to the question!!! and anyways it is only a pic of how God made me haha
I would like to ask please what it might take Omar for you to flip the switch? Nothing at all?
OP
OP
I'm here because the Universe has a sense of humor, and more voices were needed to argue the things I argue, and 3 small cats needed someone to feed them. Beyond that, it's a mystery.
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