Barnesville teen denied Catholic confirmation after Facebook post supporting gay marriage

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Well, thats a different story entirely! so Lennon voluntarily withdrew , not was forced out. Even if LaMoine would have denied it later, takes courage and conviction to voluntarily leave. I still don't pity him, but I do respect him for what he believes in. At the same time, no hard feelings towards the church, since LaMoine didn't go out of his way to find the photo, and he never actually denied anyone.
Also,

“We just simply couldn’t do it no matter what, given what was out there,” LaMoine told The Forum in an interview. “He could be confirmed, but he’d have to change his mind about some things, and I don’t know if Lennon is going to do that.”

To me at least, this implies that he can still join, just not until he changes views or the catholic church changes views (ha!)

 

[Carol]

much depends on how he was confronted.

You can approach them with efforts to work through a problem, or you can approach them in such a way that the target feels that they have no option except to quit before they are fired (literally or figuratively).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Big Don]

Their org. their rules. But they'll put themselves out of business this way...which suits me fine.

Yeah, and after only 2000 years...

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Their org. their rules. But they'll put themselves out of business this way...which suits me fine.

Here's the difference between, say, the GOP and the Catholic Church. The GOP has to get people elected, or they lose political power and eventually stop being the 'other party' in a two-party system. So change, one might say, is required, in times where their viewpoints are not as popular as they once were.

The Church, on the other hand, is not in the business of being popular. It can be a billion-plus strong, or a much smaller entity, and it doesn't matter. It can choose remain the same without regard to attracting new members or appealing to people who don't really buy into all the beliefs of the Church.

As to your opinions on what happens to the Catholic Church, you've made your antipathy clear in several posts now. I think we all get it. Thanks for your comments.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The Catholic Church, in fact any religion, can set it's own rules, terms for membership, and so forth. As long as those rules don't violate civil law, they can do what they want, and people can decide for themselves if they want to belong and comply.

Personally, I think as we grow past ancient mythologies most current religions will fade to a minimal. They will be replaced by new variations and new faiths, as has always happened.

I'd just like to see all their tax exemptions removed and taxes paid.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Side note:
Bushu-suru - To do the Bush Thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H._W._Bush_vomiting_incident

 

[oftheherd1]

Here's the difference between, say, the GOP and the Catholic Church. The GOP has to get people elected, or they lose political power and eventually stop being the 'other party' in a two-party system. So change, one might say, is required, in times where their viewpoints are not as popular as they once were.

The Church, on the other hand, is not in the business of being popular. It can be a billion-plus strong, or a much smaller entity, and it doesn't matter. It can choose remain the same without regard to attracting new members or appealing to people who don't really buy into all the beliefs of the Church.

As to your opinions on what happens to the Catholic Church, you've made your antipathy clear in several posts now. I think we all get it. Thanks for your comments.

I'm not a member of the Catholic Church, and disagree with some few of the things it does or has done. However, the bolded/underlined I agree with completely. It is how any religion should be in my opinion. As always, others are welcome to their own opinions, including any that don't agree with mine.

 

[Empty Hands]

The Church, on the other hand, is not in the business of being popular. It can be a billion-plus strong, or a much smaller entity, and it doesn't matter. It can choose remain the same without regard to attracting new members or appealing to people who don't really buy into all the beliefs of the Church.

It does matter though. The Church, all churches and religions, are human institutions, and share much in common with other institutions like businesses, and they all share some features with biological systems. Like any species or other biological system, a religion or a church or a business must adapt to a changing environment in order to replicate itself over time, replication in this case meaning new believers to replace the ones that die. If an institution does not, it will die, much like a species that can't adapt to a changing environment. Institutions evolve over time as well, with the most successful adapters surviving the best.

The Catholic Church has itself evolved and adapted continuously throughout its history, and its ability to do so means that it has survived. If the Church cannot do so in the future, then it will die. History is littered with such belief systems and religions, my personal favorite being the Shakers, who in believing that procreation itself was sinful quite literally could not replicate themselves, nor did they have much luck recruiting new followers to such an unpleasant belief system.

I understand that this systems, biological view does not exactly jive with the view of the Catholic Church as the possessor of a unique truth and special authority and inheritance from Jesus through Peter. Nonetheless, many belief systems have thought themselves in possession of unique truth, and died out when anyone stopped caring.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I understand that this systems, biological view does not exactly jive with the view of the Catholic Church as the possessor of a unique truth and special authority and inheritance from Jesus through Peter. Nonetheless, many belief systems have thought themselves in possession of unique truth, and died out when anyone stopped caring.

The Catholic Church may well choose to die out rather than change their message. This is their right, and some might say, the correct way to look at things. Some would applaud it's demise, others less so, most would probably be ambivalent. But your point is correct; like any organism, an institution facing diminishing public support must change or die. Dying is a valid option, however. The Church has indeed changed in the past, but this does not require that it therefore must change again in the future.

In some institutions, we cherish those who refuse to compromise their principles. In others, we condemn it. In some future world, perhaps we will have a Catholic Church that believes anyone can worship anything and that's just OK with them, anyone can be a priest, sin doesn't really exist, and by the way, here's some LSD as a sacrament. Or we may have nothing but a dim memory of a church that no longer exists and is remembered, if at all, as an institution that held to a set of beliefs even when every last human turned away from them. What is that line that Bob Hubbard likes to quote about 'even Gods may die'?

Personally, I find it gladdening in many ways that at least one human institution still says that it is what it says it is, not what the crowd says it ought to be. I don't agree with many aspects of my own Church, but I appreciate their point of view on matters.

 

[arnisador]

The Church, on the other hand, is not in the business of being popular. It can be a billion-plus strong, or a much smaller entity, and it doesn't matter. It can choose remain the same without regard to attracting new members or appealing to people who don't really buy into all the beliefs of the Church.

Oh please. They're repeatedly changed their positions to match the reality of what their members do and believe in order to retain membership. They're gone from torturing scientists to being relatively pro-science among forms of Christianity to avoid mockery. The Pope has even softened his stance on condoms in Africa in the face of growing outrage. Yes, it has a lot of outdated positions that it still hasn't changed, but there are so many that it has softened, modified, or outright-reversed over the centuries.

As to your opinions on what happens to the Catholic Church, you've made your antipathy clear in several posts now.

It's not particular to the Catholic Church, or even just Christianity. Anyone promoting superstition over knowledge is acting against the common good.

 

[Tgace]

http://www.managementpsychology.com/articles/the-intersection-of-intelligence-and-arrogance/

 

[oftheherd1]

...


It's not particular to the Catholic Church, or even just Christianity. Anyone promoting superstition over knowledge is acting against the common good.

I think I can agree with that! Or at least I can if your definition of superstition agrees with mine. But somehow I don't think that is going to happen. My guess is that whatever you religious beliefs, everyone else's is going to be superstition. I don't say that with rancor, just saying what is usually most people's belief about rival religious beliefs. If I am wrong, please accept my apologies.

 

[arnisador]

I think I can agree with that! Or at least I can if your definition of superstition agrees with mine. But somehow I don't think that is going to happen. My guess is that whatever you religious beliefs, everyone else's is going to be superstition. I don't say that with rancor, just saying what is usually most people's belief about rival religious beliefs.

I'm talking about any belief in supernatural entities or forces that are at odds with science--gods, vampires, zombies, unicorns, karma,...

 

[Makalakumu]

I'm talking about any belief in supernatural entities or forces that are at odds with science--gods, vampires, zombies, unicorns, karma,...

LOL

The Most Dangerous Superstition

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Why am I now thinking of that South Park episode where Cartman freezes himself to get a Wii?

 

[Buka]

I grew up Catholic, but usually only get my religious input from South Park now.

I notice similarities in the discussion of religion(s) and the discussion of Martial Art(s), maybe because I'm old. Oh, well, praise the Lord and pass the ammunition, fellas!