Towards a Minimum Hapkido Standard

[American HKD]

Lets take your thoughts point by point.

Who the heck is talking about givng rank or leaving our respective organizations?

Who is talking about giving rank?

And why do I have to call everything else BS?

And what does any of this have to do with being a "man" or being "ready".

What is it that you think is going on here?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

Bruce,

I said
.......Talking is great but who could actually make it work?...."

You said
The short answer is "we would".

My point.

Live by what you want to see happen and start the movement.

No offense about your manhood just a figure of speech.

 

[Kumbajah]

I think that Bruce is advocating "open source" Hapkido. No one person owns it, everyone is responsible for it. You are given a base and you modify to your needs and offer any modification back to the community.

From http://www.oit.duke.edu/pubtrain/glossary.html

"Open source software is distributed with the source code freely available for alteration and customization. The idea behind open source software is the exact opposite of the old "too many cooks spoil the broth" adage. Theoretically, through the collective work of many programmers, the resulting software can become more useful and free of holes and bugs. One of the most well-known pieces of open source software is Linux."

This starts to be Hapkido with a jeet kun do attitude (difference - you can't disregard the base). Here is the philosophy, history, kicks, locks, throws, pins, and falls now see what you can come with. Now it integrate "new" material back in - does it follow the precepts laid out in the base. "Does it fit in?"

How to implement - imho - all you need is a name. If people say hey thats something that I can use they adopt it. So if you walk into any Hapkido dojang you can ask do you follow "open source Hapkido" precepts. If so you know at least the base. There will be differences but you will be familiar with the environment.

I propose we call it the Jackson Hapkido Base. In honor/ in the sprit of of JR West's Hapkido gathering. It attracts Hapkidoin from different backgrounds to learn and share with each other in an ego free environment. We can all see "upgrades / new features" twice a year.

Brian

 

[kwanjang]

...If people like Hal, Rudy, JR, and a maybe a few other westerners got behind it and said whoever meets these standards will qualify for rank from any of us any time that would be real unity and we'd have something worth while going for.

I also think Hapkido could become more popular with a unified core rather than such wide devisions as we now have.

Get the leaders together and there you have it.

Hello everyone:
As it stands today, I would not hesitate to accept rank from the folks you mentioned. There are a few more, but there are many more from whom I would not accept rank of any kind. Still, even the folks you mentioned have different components to their particular version of Hap Ki Do; however, I see the same fundamentals and that is good enough for me. To me, you either move like a Hap Ki Do practitioner, or you practice Hap Ki Do with the basic motion of another art. In the latter case, IMHO, you are not doing Hap Ki Do no matter how hard you work at it.

 

[American HKD]

Hello everyone:
As it stands today, I would not hesitate to accept rank from the folks you mentioned. There are a few more, but there are many more from whom I would not accept rank of any kind. Still, even the folks you mentioned have different components to their particular version of Hap Ki Do; however, I see the same fundamentals and that is good enough for me. To me, you either move like a Hap Ki Do practitioner, or you practice Hap Ki Do with the basic motion of another art. In the latter case, IMHO, you are not doing Hap Ki Do no matter how hard you work at it.

Rudy,

Well said I agree and the essense of Hapkido stands out no matter who teaches it.

Lastly as you say here ........I see the same fundamentals and that is good enough for me. To me, you either move like a Hap Ki Do practitioner........

Bruce and I think that a core set of tecniques/principles were agreed on by a few leaders that solve many problems in HKD

Stop rank issues
Stop Political problems
Include more than exclude
Stop everyone and thier mother claiming to know/teach HKD

It's a great thing!

Who else will agree to this concept and turn it into something as Rudy says he would?

 

[whalen]

Bruce,

I think the HKD world could benefit from such a standard, but if no one really follows it in thier schools and gets rank by it and no association honors the outline it's only academic.

The idea of KIHAP was a standard that would cross the boundries of associations. Once accepted and endorsed by any governing body that body would in fact accept the others ranking without exception.

It was a very lofty undertaking and at the time I was really into it.
HIKAP didn't have the right people or leadership so it fell apart.


Get the leaders together and there you have it.

Now that we are on the subject of KiHAP very interesting concept. Let me give a little history About 7-8 years ago a good friend of mine called me and asked if I could help an individual that had left John Pelligrini after a major law-suite over Combat Hapkido This individual was a third Dan in combat Hapkido.

Now here is the interesting part he asked me for help and told me of his situation and he sounded very sincere so I told him to come and visit my dojang And I would work with him FREE OF CHARGE if could not make it veido his Hapkido so we would save time and I could evaluate where he needed work and how we would help him he stated he would call back as soon as the opportunity arose to come visit.

Well the very next issue of TKDT he was now the founder of a new AiKi-jitsu system 8th dan, I found this very amusing and laughed told it to a few of my Black Belts whom asked me "Why do you trust every jerk that calls you about needing help in Hapkido"

All I could do is shrug and shake my head "This is what I do" Then as time passed Ed Anniable was in TKDT several times with Schumacher and (The group of I promote you, you promote me and we take a picture society)

He then sent me an email about his new idea of KIHAP and asked if i would want to join. I questioned him about his contact he made before and I questioned about his recent promotions and he stated I was mistaken He was already a sixth dan in Hapkido when he affiliated with Pelligrini..

This makes sense You go from sixth Dan Back to third to belong to a group that is run By a video Hapkido Charlatan I knew where he was coming from and I told him so.

He then told me I was the Jerk Everyone told him i was "Oh well I can live with that"

Is this what Hapkido has become ? I think not or at least Hope not.

Hal Whalen

 

[American HKD]

Now that we are on the subject of KiHAP very interesting concept. Let me give a little history About 7-8 years ago a good friend of mine called me and asked if I could help an individual that had left John Pelligrini after a major law-suite over Combat Hapkido This individual was a third Dan in combat Hapkido.

Now here is the interesting part he asked me for help and told me of his situation and he sounded very sincere so I told him to come and visit my dojang And I would work with him FREE OF CHARGE if could not make it veido his Hapkido so we would save time and I could evaluate where he needed work and how we would help him he stated he would call back as soon as the opportunity arose to come visit.

Well the very next issue of TKDT he was now the founder of a new AiKi-jitsu system 8th dan, I found this very amusing and laughed told it to a few of my Black Belts whom asked me "Why do you trust every jerk that calls you about needing help in Hapkido"

All I could do is shrug and shake my head "This is what I do" Then as time passed Ed Anniable was in TKDT several times with Schumacher and (The group of I promote you, you promote me and we take a picture society)

He then sent me an email about his new idea of KIHAP and asked if i would want to join. I questioned him about his contact he made before and I questioned about his recent promotions and he stated I was mistaken He was already a sixth dan in Hapkido when he affiliated with Pelligrini..

This makes sense You go from sixth Dan Back to third to belong to a group that is run By a video Hapkido Charlatan I knew where he was coming from and I told him so.

He then told me I was the Jerk Everyone told him i was "Oh well I can live with that"

Is this what Hapkido has become ? I think not or at least Hope not.

Hal Whalen

That's why there was leadership troubles and bad blood lack of respect and the thing did'nt work.

Hal

Why not set up a basic standard as we've been suggesting.

Are you into it?

 

[whalen]

Bruce,
If people like Hal, Rudy, JR, and a maybe a few other westerners got behind it and said whoever meets these standards will qualify for rank from any of us any time that would be real unity and we'd have something worth while going for.

I also think Hapkido could become more popular with a unified core rather than such wide devisions as we now have.

Get the leaders together and there you have it.

Now this sounds great Now lets say we three decide there should be a time in-grade something all three of us believe in. Would you abide no questions asked ?

And we all set the rules You train with us and no-one else Would you agree?
Or if we stated that since we make the judgment and not you , form NOW on we will test your Black Belt Students not you....

It would not work ...... In reality I HAVE NEVER promoted someone that was not a student of mine or my students , student We are not a Hapkido clearing house . somewhere along the way Everyone forgot to mention Loyalty To you instructor He taught you plain and simple.

Over and Over i have heard those money hungry koreans all they want is to be in control and take our money for testing and such.

Being an electrician has it ups and downs it is the nature of the Business or the lively hood i have chosen . I am presently unemployed since june this happens and this is how it goes.

My instructor found out about this and called me and offered to send me money to help me out since He considers me his son, I have not paid this man tuition since 1977 and i lived with him and his family on more than one occasion one time for four months when i went through the KHA instructors course in 1982.

Now should I abandon him because he did not train under choi ? Or he is not teaching what Choi originally taught ?

Master Won has a little saying : If your Father is Ugly do you trade him for better looking father ? Or is he your Father just the same Family is Family and I am considered his and I do nothing that will ruin the bond we have.

Hal Whalen

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Brian:

Thank you very, very much for adding that piece. I was only vaguely aware of that whole process, and while it is exactly the model I had in mind I would not have been able to express things as clearly as you did.

BTW: I had been casting around for some type of "label" to give it and think the idea of using "Jackson" as a way of invoking a non-partisan, non-style sort of criteria would be excellent. I think before we would make a final decision it would be worthwhile to check with Master West so that we don't suggest that such a project automatically carries his support or participation. I had also thought about identifying it as the "Choi Syllabus of Minimal Standards" but was likewise reluctant to risk people drawing the wrong conclusion.

One other thing...... I'm still uncomfortable about people viewing such a project as a way of setting promotional standards. Does anyone have thoughts on how to move away from this before it gets too deeply entrenched? Thoughts? Anyone?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[glad2bhere]

Now this sounds great Now lets say we three decide there should be a time in-grade something all three of us believe in. Would you abide no questions asked ?

And we all set the rules You train with us and no-one else Would you agree?
Or if we stated that since we make the judgment and not you , form NOW on we will test your Black Belt Students not you....

It would not work ...... In reality I HAVE NEVER promoted someone that was not a student of mine or my students , student We are not a Hapkido clearing house . somewhere along the way Everyone forgot to mention Loyalty To you instructor He taught you plain and simple.

Over and Over i have heard those money hungry koreans all they want is to be in control and take our money for testing and such.

Being an electrician has it ups and downs it is the nature of the Business or the lively hood i have chosen . I am presently unemployed since june this happens and this is how it goes.

My instructor found out about this and called me and offered to send me money to help me out since He considers me his son, I have not paid this man tuition since 1977 and i lived with him and his family on more than one occasion one time for four months when i went through the KHA instructors course in 1982.

Now should I abandon him because he did not train under choi ? Or he is not teaching what Choi originally taught ?

Master Won has a little saying : If your Father is Ugly do you trade him for better looking father ? Or is he your Father just the same Family is Family and I am considered his and I do nothing that will ruin the bond we have.

Hal Whalen

I guess it will take folks a little bit of time to get used to a new way of doing business, were this to get off the ground. Please take a look at Brians Post a bit earlier.

This is not a matter of "people abiding" or "obeying" something. I hope noone is saying that this is suppose to be the bassis for promotion. All I am thinking about right now is identifying a set of minimal standards that we Hapkido practiioners can consider as a common core from which we can communicate. As things progress, maybe someone who thinks the Base is productive will kick in an argument for including the Crescent Kick, or some throw not already in the Base. Soone else might want to take something out as not truely representative of Hapkido or most practitioners. What would truely be great is that when we start to talk about Hapkido techniques we could have a common reference point to identify a technique rather than five unique descriptions of the same kick or throw. Might could be we will even work out some common titles for the techniques. Sorry to keep banging away on this theme, but I really get nervous when folks start talking about authority and lines of power when they don't really have anything to do with this.

BTW: Does anyone have a suggestion for a central location for this project? Its a bit spread-out right now because I have so many Nets where I have been talking about this. Thoughts? Comments?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[whalen]

That's why there was leadership troubles and bad blood lack of respect and the thing did'nt work.

Hal

Why not set up a basic standard as we've been suggesting.

Are you into it?

These are the requirements i use 7th Gueb
Demonstration 103 techniques 6-7 months

22 hand strikes
12 kicks
8 basic blocks
10 Defense against punches with counter strikes
10 defense against punches with kicks
10 same side break aways
10 cross wrist break aways
10 kicks against wrist grabs

The requirement for 6th Gueb
Demonstration 53 techniques 3 months minimum from last test

9 additional kicks
10 throws against wrist grab
18 basic joint locks against wrist grab
14 basic cross wrist grabs with joint-locks

The requirements for 5th gueb 3 months minimum form 6th gueb
demonstration 60 techniques

20 more kicks
35 defenses against clothing grabs multiple areas
5 defenses against hair grabs

The requirements for 4th Gueb 3 month s minimum from 5th gueb
Demonstration 70 techniques

20 double kicks
20 defense against punches with throws and joint-locks
10 handshake defense
5 defense against rear wrist grabs
15 intermediate level defense against clothing grabs

The requirements for 3rd gueb 3 months minimum from 4th gueb
Demonstration of 72 techniques

20 hopping or sliding kicks
17 Defense against clothing grabs from rear
15 intermediate wrist breaks
20 Defenses against body grabs from rear

The requirements for 2nd gueb 3 months minimum since 3 gueb
Demonstration of 75 techniques

20 jump double kicks
20 Defense against front body grabs
25 Defenses against Kicks
10 defense against two hands grabbing two wrists

The requirements for 1st gueb 3 months minimum since 2nd gueb
Demonstration 59 Techniques

12 Flying kicks
10 two hands grabbing one wrist
12 advanced wrist breaks
10 from the side wrist grabs
3 defense from underside wrist grab to the chest

The requirements for 1st Dan minimum 6 months since 1st gueb test
17 special kicks
36 knife defense
15 offensive techniques
10 choking techniques

For first dan test and every test you have to demonstrate all of the previous techniques as seemed necessary by the testing board Certain kicks are eliminated Do to age or physical limitations

The requirements for 2nd Dan minimum 1 since 1st dan
Demonstration of 133 techniques

20 Black Belt Level against clothing grabs
20 " " " against wrist grabs
15 " " " against punches
21 " " " against kicks
8 special kicks
11 seated defense
11 lying on back
20 combination joint locks


The requirements for 3rd Dan 2 year since 2nd dan
Demonstration of 150 techniques

16 defense against pistol
30 defense against joint locks/ counter joint locks
short stick technique
20 technique against punch
20 techniques against kick
20 against clothing/ body grabs
20 escorting/ arresting technique
20 long pole technique

The requirements for 4th Dan Master minimum 3 years since 3 Dan
Demonstration of 125 techniques

20 Cane technique against kick
20 Cane technique against punch
20 cane technique against grabs
15 sword offensive sword attack
15 defensive sword
15 defense two people grabbing wrist
15 defense two people grabbing multiple areas of body not just wrist.

these are the requirements of our Dojang all were taught by my masters in korea and many that i learned for Choi,Han Young whom i train with while stationed in texas . I also have not included Tan jon breathing , it is done every class Also falling techniques this is a given.


I also did not mention pressure points for attack or healing and body alignment for chiropractic purpose since it would cause legal problems.

I am not trying to be boastful you can contact Mike T this is what he test with.

I hope this helps in some way I have also named all of the techniques up to 2nd Dan

Hal whalen

 

[kwanjang]

Bruce:
In principle, I would love to see some sort of guideline of minimum standards; however, I still say that lots of people who ask me to certify them in Hap Ki Do know all of the kicks and strikes you mention. Heck, they even know a fair number of techniques, but they do NOT move like Hap Ki Do people.

Hap Ki Do, IMHO, has a certain fluid motion that is part and parcel of the art; and, no matter how many techniques, kicks, and strikes a person knows, you can tell if their upbringing was in another art. If we accept people who just know the technique but NOT the motion, we will find ourselves accepting people who are like the intellectuals that can Ace every academic test placed in front of them. I have seen that many of these folks could not "apply" anything they have ever learned, because they have no idea how to put their academic knowledge into something useful.

In closing. I believe we already have an unspoken bond between the very people you think would be good to have involved. JR would NEVER refer people to me like he does if he did not trust me as a Hap Ki do "player". Same goes for Geoff Booth, Hal, and several other well known people we often speak fondly of. Like I said earlier, if students of some of these fine folks were to come to me, the first thing I would do is accept their rank as it was earned from their Instructors, and the next thing I would ask them is WHY do you want to join if you already have a good man to teach you.

I, for one, do NOT want folks who jump from org to org without the loyalty Hal speaks of. On the other hand, I would be more than happy to take care of someone who moved into my area and has difficulties maintaining his original ties because of distance. In fact, if one of my people were to move to an area better served by one of the other folks I mentioned, I call them up and ask them to take care of my "family". I am sure they would, and all I could hope for is that my student would work his butt off to earn the respect I was given by his new teacher.

I have several people in NKMAA who live closer to JR than they do to me. ALL of them are also affiliated with JR, and that is because I told them it was a good idea for them to train with JR since they can work with him more often than travel to see me or vice versa. This is not good business as most see it, but it IS good martial arts they way I see it. So far, I have had no one in (or move to) Hal's area. If I did, I would be on the phone to Hal and politely ask him if he would take care of my student. Oddly enough, all of the people I referred to JR are still with me. Apparently there is no need to change loyalty just to train with one the folks whom I mentioned. I would NEVER expect one of JRs people to change loyalty just to have him or her train with me... as far as I am concerned, we are family, and we take care of family where I come from.

Unfortunately, none of this goodwill and trust has ever stopped the folks who we wish would call whatever they do something other than Hap Ki Do.

 

[whalen]

Dear Brian:

BTW: I had been casting around for some type of "label" to give it and think the idea of using "Jackson" as a way of invoking a non-partisan, non-style sort of criteria would be excellent. I think before we would make a final decision it would be worthwhile to check with Master West so that we don't suggest that such a project automatically carries his support or participation.

I can see several problems so far, a central location should be selected so as to make it easy for all parties to attend . As a certain fact of life we all have certain expense's it should not cost to attend such an event nor should someone profit. it is not about supporting someones dojang or event but the survival of hapkido.

Seminars are a great way to meet and practice but the host of any event also has one eye on the money coming in ? it is a business other wise there would be no sale of tapes t-shirts etc at these events.

Now as doing this at a large scale national seminar would it be in the Best interest of Hapkido ? or to increase the profit margin of an event ?

That is why it should be held somewhere neutral where all parties have to travel and there is no hidden agenda.

Hal whalen

 

[iron_ox]

Hello all,

Perhaps a minimum standard should come not in the form of a standardized syllabus, but a more standardized view of how we will "see" and define hapkido so that "technical" definitions are less important.

 

[whalen]

Hello all,

Perhaps a minimum standard should come not in the form of a standardized syllabus, but a more standardized view of how we will "see" and define hapkido so that "technical" definitions are less important.

It is agood way to start and I am sure everyone will agree on this.

Hal

 

[Kumbajah]

With all due respect Hal and Rudy I think that you are missing the point. It's not about jumping orgs or certification. Its about a common base. An analogy for Hal - Take the Electrical code and standards. It is a manual for best practices based on the laws of electricity and safety. You don't have to be part of the IBEW to utilize the code or be an electrician. [ you are better off in the IBEW apprenticeship program but that's a different discussion ] Not everyone has to be checked off on Fire systems or data systems, but you at least have to know how to wire a single pole switch or calculate load. It is a common base that we all can refer to. It is not a curriculum that we have to prescribe to. But if you are going to do this work you should at least know this. Now with this being said you can deviate from the code if situations warrant themselves. Lazy neutrals for example. Are they legal - no. Do they work - Yes. Are the useful to know yes. The code is rewritten every couple of years to accommodate new technology and practices. Instead of stemming from one source we would all be the source.

An other example would be language. Does anyone have to tell you its ok to speak english? No it is just a standard of words that we all agree to use. The lexicon changes through the years and many sources contribute to it but its still english. Some maybe more eloquent than others but we can at least understand each other. "these are wicked good tomatoes" and " these tomatoes are excellent " convey the same thought and we can recognize the thought they convey all though they take different approaches. It's still english.

Brian

 

[iron_ox]

Hello all,

Kumbajah, to create a minimum standard, one must first define what one is standardizing...

 

[ajs1976]

I think by working towards a minimum standard, the defination will start to present itself.

Couple of people have brought up points about the movement of an hapkidoin vs the movement of someone who just learned the techiques. Also the principles of Hapkido were mentioned. Should these be included in the minimum list. If so, how?

 

[whalen]

. An analogy for Hal - Take the Electrical code and standards. It is a manual for best practices based on the laws of electricity and safety. You don't have to be part of the IBEW to utilize the code or be an electrician. [ you are better off in the IBEW apprenticeship program but that's a different discussion ] Not everyone has to be checked off on Fire systems or data systems, but you at least have to know how to wire a single pole switch or calculate load. It is a common base that we all can refer to. It is not a curriculum that we have to prescribe to. But if you are going to do this work you should at least know this. Now with this being said you can deviate from the code if situations warrant themselves. Lazy neutrals for example. Are they legal - no. Do they work - Yes. Are the useful to know yes. The code is rewritten every couple of years to accommodate new technology and practices. Instead of stemming from one source we would all be the source.
eak engl


I am impressed actually it is the NFPA that updates the code every three years. and it is Mandatory in the state of Ma. that we take the update course before we are allowed to renew our license no course no license it is usually 15 hours of code updates and significant changes etc.

But we do a mandatory 21 which will include the OSHA regulations ? Lock out tag out procedure and safety in or around medium voltage which is 480V- 13.8 kV, Which we call the unforgiving of obvious reasons when it bites you DIE.

I am sorry For a second i though i was on the IBEW board.....Time for another cup of starbucks Before we work on solving all of the problems of the Hapkido world......

Hal
]

 

[glad2bhere]

"........These are the requirements i use 7th Gueb
Demonstration 103 techniques 6-7 months

22 hand strikes
12 kicks
8 basic blocks
10 Defense against punches with counter strikes
10 defense against punches with kicks
10 same side break aways
10 cross wrist break aways
10 kicks against wrist grabs

The requirement for 6th Gueb
Demonstration 53 techniques 3 months minimum from last test

9 additional kicks
10 throws against wrist grab
18 basic joint locks against wrist grab
14 basic cross wrist grabs with joint-locks

The requirements for 5th gueb 3 months minimum form 6th gueb
demonstration 60 techniques

20 more kicks
35 defenses against clothing grabs multiple areas
5 defenses against hair grabs

The requirements for 4th Gueb 3 month s minimum from 5th gueb
Demonstration 70 techniques

20 double kicks
20 defense against punches with throws and joint-locks
10 handshake defense
5 defense against rear wrist grabs
15 intermediate level defense against clothing grabs

The requirements for 3rd gueb 3 months minimum from 4th gueb
Demonstration of 72 techniques

20 hopping or sliding kicks
17 Defense against clothing grabs from rear
15 intermediate wrist breaks
20 Defenses against body grabs from rear

The requirements for 2nd gueb 3 months minimum since 3 gueb
Demonstration of 75 techniques

20 jump double kicks
20 Defense against front body grabs
25 Defenses against Kicks
10 defense against two hands grabbing two wrists

The requirements for 1st gueb 3 months minimum since 2nd gueb
Demonstration 59 Techniques

12 Flying kicks
10 two hands grabbing one wrist
12 advanced wrist breaks
10 from the side wrist grabs
3 defense from underside wrist grab to the chest

The requirements for 1st Dan minimum 6 months since 1st gueb test
17 special kicks
36 knife defense
15 offensive techniques
10 choking techniques

For first dan test and every test you have to demonstrate all of the previous techniques as seemed necessary by the testing board Certain kicks are eliminated Do to age or physical limitations......"

Good start!! OK, so we have some work to do. Heres' some things I see.

1.) Since right this moment we are only talking about minimums, I snipped-off everything after 1st Dan. If this ever expands past the basics then we need to start in with looking at the dan ranks for individual minimums, wouldn't you think?

2.) Another thing to look at (and only you will be able to do this right now) are those techniques which repeat themselves even if they do so under varied situations, or in response to different techniques.

3.) Then, of those remaining techniques, which are already represented among the kicking, striking, falling or grappling techniques already mentioned--- and drop those out. What this should leave are unique techniques which are candidate for discussion about including them because they encourage some aspexct of Hapkido that is being over looked, or address an aspect of Hapkido already identified, but does it in a very unique way of its own. If you like we can use your list as a kind of "test case" to show other people how a selection process from a larger curriculum might be done. Thoughts?

BTW: The idea of using "breakaways" was communicated to my by Dojunim Kim as being part of original Choi material. Apparently there are 10 (?) "breakaways" that are taught so as to identify the way the wrist can be manipulated in later techniques. I had not thought of this until I saw your heading "breakaways".

BTW #2: I have not done anything with either breathing or blocking as I am waiting for more input from folks on these matters. When it comes to cross-referencing as I did on other things all of my resources are all over the board. Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[glad2bhere]

".......I can see several problems so far, a central location should be selected so as to make it easy for all parties to attend . As a certain fact of life we all have certain expense's it should not cost to attend such an event nor should someone profit. it is not about supporting someones dojang or event but the survival of hapkido.

Seminars are a great way to meet and practice but the host of any event also has one eye on the money coming in ? it is a business other wise there would be no sale of tapes t-shirts etc at these events.

Now as doing this at a large scale national seminar would it be in the Best interest of Hapkido ? or to increase the profit margin of an event ?

That is why it should be held somewhere neutral where all parties have to travel and there is no hidden agenda......"

I wanted to slow down a bit so that posts weren't passing each other too quickly. That said I wanted to remind folks of a couple of obvious things.
a.) Maybe sometime down the road we might get together and talk face-to-face. Might even be a good idea. Right now, though, if you are kicking into the discussion, you are already "in attendence". If you want to send $$$ along well theres' a guy I know in Illinois who gratefully accepts... oh, never mind.

One thing that has not been responded to is a central location where this minimum can be published. Need some help here. My only concern is that whoever does it be willing to take it on as a full-time thing, with postings, up-dates and publishings. Anyone?

Best Wishes,

Bruce