To those who don't care about belt rank

[PhotonGuy]

Of course, this is all depending on whether or not the person awarding the belt, is sincere or just more concerned with getting your money.

And that is why I would not train under somebody who would just hand out belts because they want my money.

 

[PhotonGuy]

If you were training in medicine rather than MA and had all the necessary skills and knowledge in order to practice and call yourself Dr, would that be enough or would you still need a piece of paper saying your a doctor to hang on the wall for your own personal satisfaction?

By law, I would be required to have the piece of paper in order to work in such a profession. Working as a doctor requires a medical license and to get a medical license requires an M.D. Also, by hanging the piece of paper on my wall I would be advertising my services. The same way that when you go to apply for a job you put out a resume, for a doctor to have his M.D. certificate on his office wall that serves as a resume, it attracts potential patients.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Did he take 10 years to get a belt or 10 years to develop a skill set, base of knowledge and experience. If the former I can see how he'd be upset, if the later then the color of a piece of cloth is pretty much a moot point.

It was the former.

 

[Reedone816]

From the school that has no belt system, I am very comfortable with it as long as I got the
skill.
What we do is through skill goal.
Once you understand and show it that you really understand the application and the concept of a technique, the master will give you more advanced technique to learn.
So similar to belt system but no belt. And since it is individual oriented the advanced of a student is based by the student oneself.
Some just in several month able to advance, most other took years.
And many stop learning once they achieve certain level even though they still training and teaching.
Sent from my RM-943_apac_indonesia_207 using Tapatalk

 

[drop bear]

The way I understand it is that medals are awarded in recognition of bravery, not skills.

They are just as brave without them.

 

[drop bear]

Unfortunately, that's only in theory. A belt can be 'earned' these days after a single weekend and a cleared check. And it carries all the legitimacy in some organizations as the one earned over years of training. That's why belts really don't matter. Anyone can wear a belt. Anyone can be 'legitimate' within a school or organization for the right price. Quite another to be able to step out on the mat with a level of skill. That's why skill/experience/wealth of knowledge will always trump the color of a belt.



Have you ever been in the military? I have? Have you ever earned a metal? I have. If so, then you'll realize that most of them just feel lucky/blessed enough just to have come home, often want the medal to go to their buddies that didn't come home and absolutely don't wear it so others can recognize them in it.

Piss poor comparison.

Well the weekend check theory only is applicable if the belts don't matter. If they do matter they will be handed out to those who deserve them. Looking at a school that does belts I would have a higher estimation of the school that does not compromise its belt system.

No I don't have medals. It was mearly one circumstance where I would not suggest that they do not matter to the recipients. And I don't think I will mention that at the next Anzac day I go to regardless because they do seem to get a bit sensitive about that sort of stuff.

 

[donald1]

That's good if you want to become a black belt, or a 2nd degree black belt or a instructor but certainly once you cleared your goal what's next? It's good to want to be higher but skill comes first. I too would appreciate the Dan ranking. I'm curious is it the belt your after or knowing your skilled because of the belt

 

[drop bear]

That's good if you want to become a black belt, or a 2nd degree black belt or a instructor but certainly once you cleared your goal what's next? It's good to want to be higher but skill comes first. I too would appreciate the Dan ranking. I'm curious is it the belt your after or knowing your skilled because of the belt

Why would it be mutually exclusive?

A belt system is not the worst way to attain skills.

 

[ballen0351]

Medals and ribbons are kinda an interesting comparison. We get ribbons and medals at work from time to time. Some of us don't wear them at all. Others look like a 20 star general walking around. I personally don't wear mine because it's one more thing I need to put on my uniform and don't feel like it. They are about as meaningful as my belt color which I hold in the same regard as my underwear color. I train because I like it. I do my job because I like it. Trinkets don't mean much to me. But I do see others that are very concerned with ribbons. I guess in that way Martial arts is the same way some are very concerned with belts to the point they blame not getting one for destroying there life's plans and dreams even 10+ years later and other just don't care.

 

[drop bear]

Medals and ribbons are kinda an interesting comparison. We get ribbons and medals at work from time to time. Some of us don't wear them at all. Others look like a 20 star general walking around. I personally don't wear mine because it's one more thing I need to put on my uniform and don't feel like it. They are about as meaningful as my belt color which I hold in the same regard as my underwear color. I train because I like it. I do my job because I like it. Trinkets don't mean much to me. But I do see others that are very concerned with ribbons. I guess in that way Martial arts is the same way some are very concerned with belts to the point they blame not getting one for destroying there life's plans and dreams even 10+ years later and other just don't care.

But apart from personal choice. And I think I mentioned that is fine. Is one more moral. Yodaish or adult a position to take?

 

[ballen0351]

But apart from personal choice. And I think I mentioned that is fine. Is one more moral. Yodaish or adult a position to take?

Moral? I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

 

[drop bear]

Moral? I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

Well back about a hundred threads that seems to be the issue. Belts are not important to me because we don't do them. We skill test in other ways.

But it is important to the people who grade.

The argument was that people who place importance on gradings are somehow more shallow because they are concerned with the ritural and image not training in the purest form of martial arts which is technique.

 

[tshadowchaser]

If they where interested in the history tthere would be teacher and student or teacher disciple and student.
The rituals are a way to make the student feel or let him know that he has accomplished something the teacher feels is important

 

[Dirty Dog]

Well back about a hundred threads that seems to be the issue. Belts are not important to me because we don't do them. We skill test in other ways.

But it is important to the people who grade.

The argument was that people who place importance on gradings are somehow more shallow because they are concerned with the ritural and image not training in the purest form of martial arts which is technique.

You have it backwards. And this has been pointed out to you before.
The argument was that people who don't care about belt color are "bumps on a log".


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.

 

[donald1]

Why would it be mutually exclusive?

A belt system is not the worst way to attain skills.

Apologies if choose wrong words, but that's not what I meant. Just that it's good to enjoy belts but not the most important part (i think it's somewhat important but not the most)

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Well the weekend check theory only is applicable if the belts don't matter. If they do matter they will be handed out to those who deserve them. Looking at a school that does belts I would have a higher estimation of the school that does not compromise its belt system.

Here's the thing you and photonguy need to consider; In my example about the weekend and a cleared check...I wasn't kidding. The school was a KKW TKD school, run by an 8th Dan in the KKW. All legite, at least on paper. The Hapkido training was from a Korean GM from Korea, representing a known world Hapkido Federation. Again, all legite, at least on paper. So as far as legitimacy i.e. being at a known school run by a high ranking GM in a legitimate organization inviting another high ranking GM to teach/test from another legitimate organization...all the T's were crossed and all the I's were dotted. They were just as legitimate as photonguy's 'really good instructor' and the black belt he offers.

So bottom line is this; legitimacy is in the eye of the beholder and in the world of martial arts, as far as 'who trained who' and 'what is the color of your belt' and 'where does your cert come from'....it all doesn't mean squat. Let me repeat this so as to avoid any confusion on the matter...your belt color doesn't mean jack schnitt.

What you can do on the mat or in the street is the ONLY thing that matters. Belts are a children's toy for grown ups. And they mean about as much.

But then I'm just a bump on the log :boing1:

 

[drop bear]

You have it backwards. And this has been pointed out to you before.
The argument was that people who don't care about belt color are "bumps on a log".


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.

And the counter argument was that it is personal choice? Or that not aiming for grades was somehow more moral?

 

[drop bear]

Here's the thing you and photonguy need to consider; In my example about the weekend and a cleared check...I wasn't kidding. The school was a KKW TKD school, run by an 8th Dan in the KKW. All legite, at least on paper. The Hapkido training was from a Korean GM from Korea, representing a known world Hapkido Federation. Again, all legite, at least on paper. So as far as legitimacy i.e. being at a known school run by a high ranking GM in a legitimate organization inviting another high ranking GM to teach/test from another legitimate organization...all the T's were crossed and all the I's were dotted. They were just as legitimate as photonguy's 'really good instructor' and the black belt he offers.

So bottom line is this; legitimacy is in the eye of the beholder and in the world of martial arts, as far as 'who trained who' and 'what is the color of your belt' and 'where does your cert come from'....it all doesn't mean squat. Let me repeat this so as to avoid any confusion on the matter...your belt color doesn't mean jack schnitt.

What you can do on the mat or in the street is the ONLY thing that matters. Belts are a children's toy for grown ups. And they mean about as much.

But then I'm just a bump on the log :boing1:

What about the systems that neither spar or street fight?

And you can't really judge one systems ranking by another. That is silly.

 

[Dirty Dog]

And the counter argument was that it is personal choice? Or that not aiming for grades was somehow more moral?

To the best of my recollection, there is only one person saying anything whatsoever about morality in this thread. That would be... you...

The actual comments made (as opposed to the imaginary ones) have said only that what matters is SKILL, not the color of the fabric wrapped around your waist.

 

[drop bear]

To the best of my recollection, there is only one person saying anything whatsoever about morality in this thread. That would be... you...

The actual comments made (as opposed to the imaginary ones) have said only that what matters is SKILL, not the color of the fabric wrapped around your waist.

So then regardless of your motivation. In that a comment has made you upset that is still you stance in this. And to a certain extent I disagree. And feel that achieving belts can be important in martial arts as a recognition of skill or even as service in some cases.

That achieving belt status can be important to people an for a few reasons there is nothing wrong with that.

People who work hard should be appreciated.