Does anyone disagree with belts/ranks? Why? Here's why I like belts:

[JowGaWolf]

Awesome. Tkd is my favorite. Just hate when people talk bad about it like Martial arts tutor (YouTube guy) talks trash about Tkd and claims to be a 4th Dan. Lol


-Julian

Maybe this will make you feel better. He's going to stop talking trash about Martial Arts.

 

[FlamingJulian]

As someone who comes from a traditional CMA, belts and ranks don't have meaning. We don't use them. The closest thing to rank is older brother or sister based on how long someone has been in the school. Skill level is easy to determine simply looking looking at a form, application knowledge can be determined by asking what the technique is used for and through sparring. The incentive for the student is to learn a new form. For many of us the goal is to learn a particular form or weapon that we can't learn that weapon until we learn the requirement forms. Basically we are form junkies and the guy or lady who knows the most forms is the "coolest."

Just for clarification the reason belts and ranks don't have meaning is because that's just how Chinese Martial Arts is, and when my opponent is standing in front of me, there is no need for me to make assumptions about their skill level. I could easily be beaten by a white belt karate practitioner simply for the fact that my opponent doesn't have to use karate in a fight and could very well be an excellent boxer, BJJ, practitioner, or even a kung fu practitioner. So in this case, what difference does the white belt make? What meaning does the white belt have? And that's why it doesn't have any meaning to me.

Good point. In my school as you rank up you're required to earn a certain amount of points. If that number doesn't increase then you could possibly not rank up. I know that CMA doesn't have belts and in my opinion I think Korean martial arts are similar to CMA and a bit like Karate.


-Julian

 

[FlamingJulian]

Maybe this will make you feel better. He's going to stop talking trash about Martial Arts.

Lol he's funny. But that's good


-Julian

 

[Juany118]

In the WC I study they have belts for every level. There is a clear curriculum for each level, however TWC is a world wide organization under GM Cheung and I would say the belts serve not just as an indicator of knowledge but also a commercial purpose. Some people want belts so they can say "look at me."

The Kali I study only has sash when you reach rank 9 and 10. You also only reach these ranks if the Sifu/Mataw Guro feels you are also capable of being a Guro yourself. So, in theory, you could complete everything in the curriculum up to level 10 and not get a black sash (level 9 is level 1 red sash.)

Do I think you need em? No not really but at the same time they do act as a motivational carrot for some people. The only problem I have with them is that if they aren't really earned they can kinda give people a delusion of skill that isn't there and if they are taking martial arts for self defense that can get them hurt.

 

[FlamingJulian]

In the WC I study they have belts for every level. There is a clear curriculum for each level, however TWC is a world wide organization under GM Cheung and I would say the belts serve not just as an indicator of knowledge but also a commercial purpose. Some people want belts so they can say "look at me."

The Kali I study only has sash when you reach rank 9 and 10. You also only reach these ranks if the Sifu/Mataw Guro feels you are also capable of being a Guro yourself. So, in theory, you could complete everything in the curriculum up to level 10 and not get a black sash (level 9 is level 1 red sash.)

Do I think you need em? No not really but at the same time they do act as a motivational carrot for some people. The only problem I have with them is that if they aren't really earned they can kinda give people a delusion of skill that isn't there and if they are taking martial arts for self defense that can get them hurt.

Thanks for replying! Nice points you made and I like belts because even though they aren't always a reflection of skill, they are usually a reflection of commitment and dedication.


-Julian

 

[Kickboxer101]

I say that because my Master told me its almost a guarantee I'm getting it. My school doesn't "test" students it's has them demonstrate what they know. And I am certain that I won't fail the belt test because I know everything required which would make failing impossible. My Master looked at my techniques and CONFIRMED I'm ready.


-Julian

Everyone can have a bad day you may know the stuff but on the day you freeze and can't remember anything. Demonstrate what they know? Yeah you demonstrate what you know and if it's good enough you get a belt that's a test. All that demonstrate it or another I've heard is celebrate your skills is just a bunch pc stuff to not put pressure on people.

My old instructor used to say you don't demonstrate to get your belt you test for your belt. If you don't get it it's not you weren't successful this time. you failed.

So yeah you will be doing a test and yeah you should already be confirmed as good enough to pass but failing is still a possibility.

 

[JR 137]

Even within a school, belts/ranks are a personal thing. Even though we're held to a standard, there's wiggle room. Allow me to elaborate...

At my former school, we had a lady who was a 3rd dan. Her technique was awful. If you walked in from the street, you'd think 'who would ever give her that rank?' She had the movements memorized, but everything was just awkward and no real power behind it. It looked like she was walking through her kata. She couldn't kick much passed mid thigh height.

But after a few classes with her she was IMO what epitomizes a black belt. She was always the first one in and the last one out. She always gave it her all. She never complained nor made excuses. If told to do something 1,000 times, she'd do it and immediately ask what's next. She was a walking encyclopedia of knowledge in the art; she could easily explain everything she knew and never hesitated to help someone out. She loved helping people learn.

She put more into those 3 stripes on her belt than anyone else in the building. After spending a class or two with her, no one in their right mind would question why she earned that rank.

And she was a pretty good fighter. Not fast, not agile, but she knew when to hit you and what to hit you with within her limits. You definitely couldn't out work her.

Then there was the 4th dan who was one of the best technical MAists I've been around. 4 spinal surgeries and 2 knee surgeries later, everything is painful. And it's painful to watch. Should his 4th dan be taken away?

I guess what I'm trying to say is know the person before you criticize their rank.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Even within a school, belts/ranks are a personal thing. Even though we're held to a standard, there's wiggle room. Allow me to elaborate...

At my former school, we had a lady who was a 3rd dan. Her technique was awful. If you walked in from the street, you'd think 'who would ever give her that rank?' She had the movements memorized, but everything was just awkward and no real power behind it. It looked like she was walking through her kata. She couldn't kick much passed mid thigh height.

But after a few classes with her she was IMO what epitomizes a black belt. She was always the first one in and the last one out. She always gave it her all. She never complained nor made excuses. If told to do something 1,000 times, she'd do it and immediately ask what's next. She was a walking encyclopedia of knowledge in the art; she could easily explain everything she knew and never hesitated to help someone out. She loved helping people learn.

She put more into those 3 stripes on her belt than anyone else in the building. After spending a class or two with her, no one in their right mind would question why she earned that rank.

And she was a pretty good fighter. Not fast, not agile, but she knew when to hit you and what to hit you with within her limits. You definitely couldn't out work her.

Then there was the 4th dan who was one of the best technical MAists I've been around. 4 spinal surgeries and 2 knee surgeries later, everything is painful. And it's painful to watch. Should his 4th dan be taken away?

I guess what I'm trying to say is know the person before you criticize their rank.

I like students like that. We had a student that was like that and he had the heart of a tiger. His determination and effort was inspirational even though his skills were horrible. If he works that hard then I need to work my Butt off. People like that are very rare. In my opinion those people earn every rank increase they get. Most people in similar situations like that would quit.

 

[FlamingJulian]

Even within a school, belts/ranks are a personal thing. Even though we're held to a standard, there's wiggle room. Allow me to elaborate...

At my former school, we had a lady who was a 3rd dan. Her technique was awful. If you walked in from the street, you'd think 'who would ever give her that rank?' She had the movements memorized, but everything was just awkward and no real power behind it. It looked like she was walking through her kata. She couldn't kick much passed mid thigh height.

But after a few classes with her she was IMO what epitomizes a black belt. She was always the first one in and the last one out. She always gave it her all. She never complained nor made excuses. If told to do something 1,000 times, she'd do it and immediately ask what's next. She was a walking encyclopedia of knowledge in the art; she could easily explain everything she knew and never hesitated to help someone out. She loved helping people learn.

She put more into those 3 stripes on her belt than anyone else in the building. After spending a class or two with her, no one in their right mind would question why she earned that rank.

And she was a pretty good fighter. Not fast, not agile, but she knew when to hit you and what to hit you with within her limits. You definitely couldn't out work her.

Then there was the 4th dan who was one of the best technical MAists I've been around. 4 spinal surgeries and 2 knee surgeries later, everything is painful. And it's painful to watch. Should his 4th dan be taken away?

I guess what I'm trying to say is know the person before you criticize their rank.

That 3rd Dan who you describe sounds EXACTLY... And I mean EXACTLY like a 3rd Dan going on 4th Dan older woman in the school I train at ... Like dang, u sure you didn't train in TKD at my school?!!!. Lol but seriously good points you made and I do agree. Thanks for replying.


-Julian

 

[Kickboxer101]

Well I agree that champion is an impressive term. And personally I'm not looking for a tittle. But I'm so dedicated to martial arts and I practice so much that I feel like it's only fair that I get my black belt this coming October.


-Julian

I know this is a while back now but just saw it but it's not about what's fair it's about how good you are I could grab a sword and practive and wave it around 10 hours a day doesn't mean I'm a great fencer. If you practice a lot but you suck then no you don't deserve it no matter how much you practice that's why I don't like belts they're easy to give away to instructors favourites (ones who pay most or suck up most etc) in styles with no belts sucking up and paying money won't do you any favours as you'll just be training

 

[Langenschwert]

I'm a proponent on rank in general, in spite of myself. I wasn't a believer until I was awarded my first rank, which in that school (a HEMA school) was a patch, not a belt. I though "damn, I might as well sew this thing on", and did so. By the time I sewed it on (a journey of its own, as I'm not a good tailor), I was proud to be wearing it.

And then I decided I didn't care about rank so much anymore for a while...

Then I started Judo, the originator of the MA belt system. I was so proud to get a new belt, partly as recognition for my hard work and all that I had learned, but now it's more like a reminder to hold myself to a certain standard. When I started, it was a number of green belts that took me under their wings and helped me. Now I'm a green belt, about to test for blue. My green belt reminds me to encourage beginners like was done for me, since Judo is scary, especially for those new to MA.

In my own HEMA club, people are proud of their ranks, as they take a long time and a lot of work in a variety of disciplines (longsword, messer, knife and unarmed). I think it's important to recognize students in some way for their dedication, and ranks/belts are an effective way to do that.

 

[pgsmith]

Well I agree that champion is an impressive term. And personally I'm not looking for a tittle. But I'm so dedicated to martial arts and I practice so much that I feel like it's only fair that I get my black belt this coming October.
-Julian

Didn't notice this earlier. For the record, I absolutely hate whenever people use the word "fair" when referring to anything other than a contest with rules. I used to hear this all the time from the boys when I was a scout leader. That and "they made me" were my two most hated phrases.

 

[Tez3]

Didn't notice this earlier. For the record, I absolutely hate whenever people use the word "fair" when referring to anything other than a contest with rules. I used to hear this all the time from the boys when I was a scout leader. That and "they made me" were my two most hated phrases.

Another phrase that's equally awful is 'everyone else has one/does it' because we should all get black belts shouldn't we? If Fred is really good at martial arts because he practises, listens and learns, well, I should get one too even if I don't practice or learn properly.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I know this is a while back now but just saw it but it's not about what's fair it's about how good you are I could grab a sword and practive and wave it around 10 hours a day doesn't mean I'm a great fencer. If you practice a lot but you suck then no you don't deserve it no matter how much you practice that's why I don't like belts they're easy to give away to instructors favourites (ones who pay most or suck up most etc) in styles with no belts sucking up and paying money won't do you any favours as you'll just be training

That's not a problem with belts; it's a problem with instructors. In schools with no belts, that same instructor will convey favor in some other way.