To Kill or Not to Kill

[Ken JP Stuczynski]

one day at the county fair when we were watching a bunch of people cooped up in a little car for a contest -- someone made a comment that was taken as a racial slur, the man got out of the car with a p*ssed look on his face, and then things calmed down again.

What I didn't know was that I had grabbed my wife's wrist and somehow immobilized her behind me in some subconcoius act of defending her from harm's way. It didn't hurt her at all, but she said somehow I had one hand on her and she couldn't move at all.

Am I the only one who scares themselves when they slip into "combat mode"?

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by D.Cobb
I'm not sure who said it, but they said it best when they said,
I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by 6 , and I personally reckon it's better to be in a witness box than a pine box.

--Dave:asian:

I said it, and I agree with you! At least in the witness box, I still have a chance!

Mike

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by Disco
You don't have time to think, you just react.
The point being is that anyone on this board, who has trained to defend themselves, will revert under pressure to that training. There will be no formal discussion of morals or ethics. It will be a reaction.

Another good point! That old saying, "You will fight like you train" is very true! You can think that you might be able to defend yourself, but if you dont put yourself into a "real" setting, all the training in the world is not going to save you. I've seen too many times, students doing SD. The attacker stops his punch 3in away from the face or their hands are on the other persons shoulders during a choke defense. Come on---these people must be fooling themselves and the Inst that they have must be a joke also to let them get away with that. Put on a glove and throw that damn punch at the person. If it hits them, then they will learn to block it better next time. At least it was a realistic punch that was thrown.

The difference between a cop and a civi. is that the cop has access to senario training, whereas the civi. does not. The cop can be conditioned to respond to different situations under different levels of stress to see how they will react. Granted it is a training session, and a mistake made there will not cost someone their life, but at least they will have that "feeling" of it being real.

Mike

 

[theletch1]

Am I the only one who scares themselves when they slip into "combat mode

It doesn't really scare me when I do this but it scares the hell out of my wife. I just see it as a reassurance that my training is working even on a subconcious level. The only time it scares me is when I wake up and find out that I've gone into combat mode due to a recurring dream that I've had for the past 10 years. Used to happen often but only happens now during times of extremely high stress in my life.

 

[Shadow Hunter]

Originally posted by D.Cobb
I'm not sure who said it, but they said it best when they said,
I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by 6 , and I personally reckon it's better to be in a witness box than a pine box.

Strangely enough, I can not find a single solitary person who has ever had to face a jury trial that has said that. The only ones who have are typically tough guys trying to sound macho to anyone who will listen.

How about, "it is better to get gang raped in the prison showers over a period of years, loose everything dear to you and have your life destroyed forever than certain death" instead?

 

[OULobo]

Originally posted by Ken JP Stuczynski
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Am I the only one who scares themselves when they slip into "combat mode"?

My best friend's wife has been almost choked out in bed when he gets a rear naked choke on her in his slumber. Strangly enough, if she taps out he releases. Now that is scary.

 

[Shinzu]

my answer is this. do whatever it takes to survive and worry about the legal issues later. there won't be a lawyer judging the fight right?

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by Shinzu
my answer is this. do whatever it takes to survive and worry about the legal issues later. there won't be a lawyer judging the fight right?

I agree! Do what you have to in order to survive. But, make sure that you are prepared to defend your actions. Considering that this is a sue happy world, you want to make sure that you dont use any more force than necessary to defuse the situation.

Mike

 

[Shinzu]

Originally posted by MJS
I agree! Do what you have to in order to survive. But, make sure that you are prepared to defend your actions. Considering that this is a sue happy world, you want to make sure that you dont use any more force than necessary to defuse the situation.

Mike

agreed mike. if i had the upper hand i wouldn't pummle him, i would defend, defeat, and then walk away. if the senerio was a bit different, i wouldn't haggle between my life and the courts.... if i don't do what it takes i wouldn't be making it to court anyway. this is a double edged sword. you do what you feel is right to protect yourself and your loved ones. the rest if hog wash... even if it is the law.

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by Shinzu
agreed mike. if i had the upper hand i wouldn't pummle him, i would defend, defeat, and then walk away. if the senerio was a bit different, i wouldn't haggle between my life and the courts.... if i don't do what it takes i wouldn't be making it to court anyway. this is a double edged sword. you do what you feel is right to protect yourself and your loved ones. the rest if hog wash... even if it is the law.

Very True

Mike

 

[Shadow Hunter]

Originally posted by MJS
I agree! Do what you have to in order to survive. But, make sure that you are prepared to defend your actions.

Pretty good comment. All too often, you run across some guy trying to compensate for a small penis size by carrying something that the law says he cannot, or acting in a stupid way in terms of legal self defense. These guys, who have never seen action much less a legal case afterwards, always use that comment about being judged by 12 to justify their ego trip.

 

[Shinzu]

sure you wanna think about what you are doing before you do it... but dont take too much time or you will be thinking from a croutched position from the ground...LOL

 

[MJS]

I dont thing it has anything to do with ego. I feel that if you are morally and legally justified in defending yourself, then you should have no problems if it goes to trial. By sitting back and being a victim--well, that will do nothing for you except get you killed.

Mike

 

[Ken JP Stuczynski]

Originally posted by Shadow Hunter
... These guys, who have never seen action much less a legal case afterwards, always use that comment about being judged by 12 to justify their ego trip.

It isn't about ego tripping. I think the quote is apt and concise whether you agree with it or not. I don't think it's meant how you took it at all. I understoof it, and it's a common sense axiom, albeit easily mistook as too simplistic.

Why are you reading insult into it?

 

[rmcrobertson]

I think the reaction probably comes because, all too often, these homilies look like swaggering.

And I also think that some of these posts look a lot like an ego trip. Maybe it's just me, but I never seem to see posts in which folks brag about AVOIDING hurting anybody, much less shooting them--and maybe it's just my dream, but I'd thought that that was where real accomplishment lies, in everything that martial arts are supposed to be about.

Then too, there're practical issues--oddly enough, the professionals I've met never seem to talk this way.

But again, maybe it's just the way I react.

 

[Ken JP Stuczynski]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
I think the reaction probably comes because, all too often, these homilies look like swaggering.

And I also think that some of these posts look a lot like an ego trip. Maybe it's just me, but I never seem to see posts in which folks brag about AVOIDING hurting anybody, much less shooting them--and maybe it's just my dream, but I'd thought that that was where real accomplishment lies, in everything that martial arts are supposed to be about.
...

Personally, I'm proud of all the fights I've won by not having them at all.

 

[Cryozombie]

I would also like to interject...

Its very easy for people (and please, I am not speaking about anyone on this board specificaly, I'm thinking about a real life situation in my area) who live in NICE, UPPERCLASS, WELL PATROLLED, RELETIVLY CRIME FREE neighborhoods to scream "FOUL" at those of us who DONT live in that type of area because we cannot AFFORD the exorbant taxes let alone the cost of the houses, who might be carrying a weapon. It doesnt automatically make those who do THUGS, BRAGGARTS or Small PENISED. To want to have an advantage in an area where crime is NOT virtually unknown, and the kids getting off the school buses throw gang signs back at the bus, Street gangs hang out on the corner and the convienice store is robbed fairly regularly shouldnt be viewed as THUGGISH. Of course the solution by those people in the "well off" neighborhood is "MOVE" but thats only easy to say if you have the money and income to live someplace else.

PERSONALLY, *when* I am armed, I dont "Expose" it, Brag about it, or even "Swagger" because i am an armed tough guy. You would probably never know, unless you saw it. Most of the time I HOPE to hell I NEVER have to use a weapon, or even have to fight... But I'll be damned if I wont use it if the situation CALLS for it. And call it stupid if you will, I would rather take my chances with a Judge and Jury of my peers, than unarmed againts 4 or 5 "gangbangers" with bats, blades, and possibly firearms.

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
I think the reaction probably comes because, all too often, these homilies look like swaggering.

And I also think that some of these posts look a lot like an ego trip. Maybe it's just me, but I never seem to see posts in which folks brag about AVOIDING hurting anybody, much less shooting them--and maybe it's just my dream, but I'd thought that that was where real accomplishment lies, in everything that martial arts are supposed to be about.

Then too, there're practical issues--oddly enough, the professionals I've met never seem to talk this way.

But again, maybe it's just the way I react.

Very true Rob! Avoiding a fight is a huge part of the arts. Unfortunately, that is something that can't always be avoided. Sometimes, no matter how much you try to avoid, the trouble seems to just keep coming and you have 2 choices:

1- get your a** kicked

2- defend yourself

i dont know about anyone else here, but I'm gonna pick 2. If i've exhausted every other possible option, then yes, defending yourself is the only choice left!

Mike

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by Technopunk
I would also like to interject...

Its very easy for people (and please, I am not speaking about anyone on this board specificaly, I'm thinking about a real life situation in my area) who live in NICE, UPPERCLASS, WELL PATROLLED, RELETIVLY CRIME FREE neighborhoods to scream "FOUL" at those of us who DONT live in that type of area because we cannot AFFORD the exorbant taxes let alone the cost of the houses, who might be carrying a weapon. It doesnt automatically make those who do THUGS, BRAGGARTS or Small PENISED. To want to have an advantage in an area where crime is NOT virtually unknown, and the kids getting off the school buses throw gang signs back at the bus, Street gangs hang out on the corner and the convienice store is robbed fairly regularly shouldnt be viewed as THUGGISH. Of course the solution by those people in the "well off" neighborhood is "MOVE" but thats only easy to say if you have the money and income to live someplace else.

PERSONALLY, *when* I am armed, I dont "Expose" it, Brag about it, or even "Swagger" because i am an armed tough guy. You would probably never know, unless you saw it. Most of the time I HOPE to hell I NEVER have to use a weapon, or even have to fight... But I'll be damned if I wont use it if the situation CALLS for it. And call it stupid if you will, I would rather take my chances with a Judge and Jury of my peers, than unarmed againts 4 or 5 "gangbangers" with bats, blades, and possibly firearms.

Good points! As for carrying a weapon. As long as you are trained as to how to use it and you have obtained it legally, then why not carry one. But, those very people that you talk about, the ones that are not on the "Upper class"--well, if they carry a weapon illegally just for protection cuz they live in a bad neighborhood, well, that is wrong!

Keep in mind, that just cuz you carry a gun, and I dont mean just you, I'm referring to everybody as a whole, that does not mean that you can just whip it out any time you feel threatened. The same applies for a civilian as a LEO. They dont pull out their gun if the guy is unarmed. If someone approaches you and asks for $10, and you feel threatened and pull out the gun, well, IMO, you are just looking for trouble. Now, if this guy has a weapon, that is different. Exhausting every option prior to taking out the gun is the key here!

Mike

 

[OULobo]

It seems to me that we live in an era of anger and intolerance. Everyday I see examples of road rage, air age, even grocery store rage. At the same time we have the political envionment turning towards making it easier to get and carry weapons. I personally support CCW laws, but realistically it allows people in a fairly angry society a very easy way to turn a simple argument deadly. Who knows, maybe people will become more civil when they realize that their life could always be on the line.