To Form or Not To Form and the Mystery of "Modern" MA

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
I still say the reason we see this stuff in Systema is because it's really there. Not because somebody ripped off somebody else, but because there's a certain logic to intelligent self-defense...

I can't always tell if things were imported into kenpo deliberately, or if they look that way because they have to be that way...you know, the old, "a airplane designed by aliens would look like ours, because the physics of flight are the same everywhere," argument.

The quotes from rmcrobertson above are the kind of thinking that spurred me to start this thread...

I studied Yiliquan, and nothing but Yiliquan, for the first 13 years I was involved in martial arts. Then I took Aikido for a very short time. When I moved to Japan, I took Shuri-te Ha Karate-do, then Modern Arnis under John Lehmann (from Tim Hartman's camp), and finally being introduced to RyuTe Karate by Martial Talk's own RyuShiKan.

When I first started in martial arts, I thought Yiliquan was the end all/be all for martial arts. It had everything and then some. I berated and criticized other schools, other styles, other practitioners for their inability to grasp the simple truth of their own inadequacy.

Later on, I grew up.

When I did, I started investigating other martial arts. Wherever I found myself, I would try to find time to visit a school, watch their classes, try to grasp what they style "felt" like to my mind's eye.

When I got around to actually trying to study other arts, I was immediately struck with the vast amount of similarities. All of Modern Arnis' basic techniques (i.e. footwork, striking angles, joint locks, throws) are included in Yiliquan. Much of the same concepts and theories of RyuTe are the same as that of Yili. Shuri-te, as it was taught to me, showed me how Chinese boxing had influenced that particular strain of Okinawan technique...

All of a sudden I started seeing how things were more the same than they were different. The techniques are the same, the bodies are the same, the only real differences are in the preferences for the application of certain techniques favored over others, or in the combination of those techniques in application. Other than that, most things are pretty much the same.

So, long story made short, what I am now railing against is the refusal by some rather intelligent and seemingly highly trained and qualified martial artists to realize the same things - we are more similar than we are different - and to try to get this large, Jabba the Hutt mass of the martial arts community moving toward this same realization...

I think we would all be buch better off with this attitude than with a separatist orientation...

Sure, I still harbor my own personal predjudices - but I can get past those and still see the usefulness or value of a given technique. I just wish more folks could, too...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1 ......So, long story made short, what I am now railing against is the refusal by some rather intelligent and seemingly highly trained and qualified martial artists to realize the same things - we are more similar than we are different - and to try to get this large, Jabba the Hutt mass of the martial arts community moving toward this same realization...

I think we would all be buch better off with this attitude than with a separatist orientation...

The need/sense of obligation/pride to "preserve the art as taught by OUR FOUNDER " plays a strong part.

Heck. Even in Jeet KuneDo where Bruce Lee advocated evolving and adopting new training methods and fighting techniques, you still have followers that insist on preserving JKD exactly as it was left off by Bruce Lee.

 

[Matt Stone]

I'm not saying we homogenize our arts, incorporating everyone else's garbage into our own, eventually "greying" our arts so much that TKD looks exactly like Chen Taiji... Hardly!

Rather, just the common tacit understanding that while our methods of employment may differ (and radically at that), they are based more on preference and genetic predisposition (I am 5' 8" tall, 215 pounds... A head-kickin' TKD guy I will never be... ), ultimately we all have the same goal in mind.

Soft becomes Hard.

Hard becomes Soft.

Internal absorbs External.

External expresses Internal.

Without the multiple expressions of what we do, we could never appreciate the full diversity available to us...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[chufeng]

Does anyone own a pair of CornChucks?

I saw them demonstrated once in Iowa...they look remarkably like nunchaku...but are made from ears of popcorn...when you hit someone in the mouth...it's really hard to tell the difference from corn flying and teeth flying...VERY distracting...

This intermission provided by your's truly

chufeng

But seriously...YiLiQuan1 has a very good point and the other posts here were awesome...Thanks, everyone.

me again :asian:

 

[RobP]

I think at the end of the day it's down to two things - does your style teach you to be efficient and is your teacher honest. If you get those two combinations your are onto a good thing, anything else is just a matter of taste or philosophy. When you see top level guys they all exhibit similar qualities, no wasted movement, little apparent effort, calmness and grace.

Problem is, as we all know, in martial arts there are dishonest people. They may not always be dishonest in the sense of fleecing you, but sometimes in their answers to questions.

I also do think that some methods of training that are not as efficient as they could be. Though the latter also depends on what people want. For instance we had a guy who was dan grade Tang Soo Do train with us for 6 months or so. He went back to TSD as, for him, the main enjoyment in training was in practicing kata. You have to respect that decision, if we all had the same interests life would be duller and internet forums would be empty

Good discussion, thanks guys