To Block or NOT to Block???

[cypress]

If I move to the outside of the punch I like to use a parry. If I go to the inside I like to block.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Well, it really depends upon what experience you have. Notice I didn't use a belt level,,,, I have seen some that have a black belt on that move as beginners.... and greenbelts that move as advanced. So we must really talk about skill levels and not belt rank unfortunatley!

The "beginner" is taught to block then counter.......

Then as we become an "intermediate", we learn to block with a counter, ......

At the "advanced" level you slip and counter simultainously.

Then at various levels of advanced you learn to block and ride the action thru to end in a strike while controlling the opponents actions.

Come on Doug you know that!! Give me a break. Get the white Belt out again.

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Come on Doug you know that!! Give me a break. Get the white Belt out again.

Alrighty. I will start wearing the white belt again.

Remember, you told me to. :lol:

 

[WilliamTLear]

I wanna watch Dennis Kick your *** for this one. (LOL) :jediduel:

 

[GouRonin]

Wait till he flips out when I tell him I'm going to stop doing Kenpo and start Systema.
:iws:

Off to the boxing gym for me.
:boxing:

 

[Goldendragon7]

He would say........ well, another good man gone to the dogs!:rofl:

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
another good man gone to the dogs!

Bow wow...

 

[GouRonin]

"When I teach, I want effects. If a punch comes, if you block it and you look lazy, as long as you block it, that's all I care about. I don't give a damn about going down with beautiful form."

Ed Parker sums it up nicely.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Blocking is a main component of ones Basics, prefaced by Stance and suffixed by parries, punches, strikes, finger techniques, kicks and foot maneuvers.

In the beginning they are taught and are necessary to learn for many reasons and as you advance you understand more and more on where and when to use them.

As an advanced student, one utilizes blocks when necessary, yet gravitates to other methods of evasion and checking as well.

:asian:

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by GouRonin

Huk Planas threw me a question the other day. He mentioned that blocking could actually be a waste of time when compared to a parry or evasion.

What do you think? Should we block first or use blocking as a last resort? Ideas?

It depends upon the circumstances but the general rule is you better block. i would, in general disagree with Huk. You used to box, so you tell me what happenns when a combo is thrown and you don't control width. Of course you can slip, bob, weave, ride, angle, parry, but none of these things will negate a continuing assault. Sooner or later you must nullify him by a strike, distance, or a block.

 

[Michael Billings]

I currently like blocking ... when the opportunity arises. It took me a long time to learn how to slip, ride, redirect, contact manipulate, control manipulate, etc. My 1st Black thesis was chokes, strangles, smothers, sleepers. I utilized a lot of parries to allow the opponent to get closer to me before I initiated a restraint.

In my early Kenpo training I blocked as it was more natural when you come out of Shotokan or Taekwondo background. It essentially is the only defensive course in your repetoire. That or a premptive kick to stay out of range. So then parries came along. Much more sophisticated than anything I had been exposed to previously. It took a long time to learn not to reorbit the opponent's weapons.

I now like the idea of "First Strike" and every touch hurting the opponent. That lends itself back into a more aggressive blocking model ... being much more specific about how and where I block.

When push comes to shove in real life ... I have done them both, and they both work. The question is, do I want to hurt the attacker so they re-evaluate the wisdom of continuing their current course of action (hee-hee.) Or do I want to blend, redirect, seize, control, contact manipulate, contact control, with the potential for a devestating follow up as indicated ... as in the case of a drunk friend, or crazy adolescent?

Choices, choices, choices! That is what I truely love about Kenpo!

Doctor Chapel, sorry I have not had time to respond to your email! I will when I have a free moment. Needless to say your question required a more studied response than what I gave above.

:asian:
Oos,
-Michael
UKS-Texas

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Doc
It depends upon the circumstances but the general rule is you better block. You used to box, so you tell me what happenns when a combo is thrown and you don't control width. Of course you can slip, bob, weave, ride, angle, parry, but none of these things will negate a continuing assault. Sooner or later you must nullify him by a strike, distance, or a block.

My coach always felt that footwork was one of the best defences usable as it allowed you to move where you wanted to be. This also meant that it was great for the offence. You can take a monkey and put gloves on it an a chair with wheels and if you move it properly with the right timing even the monkey will be able to punch a guy out.

But over all blocking is not seen as the goal in boxing. You want to be able to move so that you make your opponent miss by centimeters. (Inches for you imperial folk) This allows for counters and openings etc. Yes, there is blocking, I won't deny that and I agree with you in that it has it's time and place. I find however that most times blocking can be an "AND THEN" which can be removed from the sentence of motion required.

But that is just my opinion. Your km/mileage may vary.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by GouRonin

You can take a monkey and put gloves on it an a chair with wheels and if you move it properly with the right timing even the monkey will be able to punch a guy out.

I'd like to see someone try this.

Certainly in arnis we think of evasion and parrying/checking over blocking when possible. Often if we can move out of the way we'll skip the block and go straight to the check and counter.

 

[Nightingale]

Personally, I prefer to parry or simply get out of the way. In that way, I use my opponent's motion against them, because most of the time, when they were expecting to hit something, they end up off balance when all they contact is air. I use the opportunity to get behind my opponent. Angle changes work wonders in almost any kind of fight, because most people fight in a straight line, moving at you. When you angle change, it throws them off balance.

 

[headkick]

goes on for our own good. My instructor has always commented that karate people tend to try to block too much. Watch people spar for a little while. You'll see even some good strikers try to block all the strikes. Even the ones that won't hit them. Sometimes I'm guilty of that myself. Slip, ride and parry are really good skills. How much does a punch need to miss by? 1/4 of inch is a miss. If I don't have to move hands too far from where i want them, my opponent is the one who is out of position with his strike. If I block, I've probably opened something up moving my hand away. The other thing I try to teach people is to think about where you block. Would it be better to block the punch coming at your ribs 8 inches away from your body or right on your body (arm tucked and rolling with the punch)? I vote for right on the body. I'll take the punch on the arm rather than open myself for a clean shot.

Just my thought...

R

 

[arnisador]

Many karateka consider that they are not so much blocking as attacking the attacker's arm. To them I say that's great; to those who really are just blokcing, though, I say you'll get hit sooner or later if you play defense.

 

[Testdummy]

I have alway learned that you should not block a punch or a kick if it is not within four inches of your body. I have also learned that for ever blok is a strike and for ever stike is a block. So what I'm saying is if you think the punh or kick is going to hit you then yes block it and if it is way out there were it will not hit you then don't block. The way I look at it is I rather block a little more than get hit .:shrug:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Testdummy
I have alway learned that you should not block a punch or a kick if it is not within four inches of your body. I have also learned that for ever blok is a strike and for ever stike is a block. So what I'm saying is if you think the punh or kick is going to hit you then yes block it and if it is way out there were it will not hit you then don't block. The way I look at it is I rather block a little more than get hit .:shrug:

LOL this is an on going question........ Well the main root to the question is really ...... avoiding being hit! Blocking is one means of that, or moving so as to not be hit is another.

In the early stages of the Art we teach students to block, then we teach you to attack with the block and make it a "striking block", then as you increase your awareness we teach you to slip and eventually to attack the attack.

So it really depends upon where you are on the scale of learning as to what you do. On the street you do what ever it takes to become successful based upon the cumulative training and conditioning.

:asian:

 

[Roland]

YES!