New to Kenpo..Need advice

[Doc]

You may not care if you alienate the populace on Martialtalk, but your reputation will carry beyond the internet here into real life. People form opinions based on how others present themselves.

You are truly wasting your keystrokes. But consider the longer we go on the more some reveal who they are. It would really be best to go back on topic. Some when they don't have a real cogent argument, attack people personally and this thread bares that out.

The strongest element there is about most kenpo is it's diversity that was promoted and encouraged by Ed Parker. Its practitioners speak volumes about alphabetical and numerical rearranging, inserts, deletions, prefixes, suffixes, grafting, and tailoring and changing everything to suit the individual instructors and students. They celebrate this diversity as the cornerstone of what they do to justify their non-traditional approach. Then someone has the nerve to say if you don't do it the way I and my teacher do it, then it isn't kenpo. The height of egotistical arrogant ignorance. Just beat on your chest with nothing positive to bring to a discussion, and howl at the moon. Use your Ignor button.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I know thi thread has taken a few turns in its course can we get back to the original point of the thread please

So I guess what I am asking here (in a round-about way) is where can I find something that will describe how to do the basic moves so as I learn then quickly during the course of the class, I will be able to come home and really learn them. In searching I find a lot of information on forms and detailed descriptions of belt requirements, but the very basics are no where to be found.

The punches and blocks I was taught are as follows:

Straight Thrust Punch, Straight snap punch, vertical thrust punch, vertical snap punch, hammer inward block, vertical outward block, extended outward block, inside downward block (palm up), outside downward block, inside downward block (palm down), pushdown.

 

[Pacificshore]

I have enjoyed reading everyones posts, and I understand that you all are very dedicated and passionate about the art (regardless which style you follow). If I have gotten anything from this thread it is that Kenpo and martial arts in general is something that brings out that passion in people and so it is definately something I want to be a part of.

I have read over these messages several times and I have learned so much in just a few short days. So keep the spirited (yet respectful) discourse coming. I'm a big girl, I can handle a few rough words And I will take from your comments what I can and use it to become a more informed member of the martial arts community. I may never attain the knowledge level of most of you here, but I will enjoy the journey and my body will benefit. That's what I am hoping to get from this. And maybe some day I will have the opportunity to kick some of your butts (in a controlled and safe environment) in my American Kenpo/Non-American Kenpo style.

Kerry

Hi Kerry for the 100th time...Welcome to the forum .....boy, I'm so glad you can think for yourself when it comes to you and your new found journey into the world of Kenpo

 

[BuddhaGirl]

Ok so tommorow is the dreaded class #3 in which I will be with the big boys. I have been practicing my jumping jacks..up to 70 before I wimp out. I am going in with added confidence thanks to all of you.

So can someone remind me what is the the vertical outward block and the extended outward block. These are the only two I think I am "blocked" on

 

[tshadowchaser]

cant help you there it has been to long sence i was in kenpo but i would like to suggest that after every class take the time to write down what you learned ( or can remmber) . make a note book of your expernce in the art, One it is a good refrence and 2 it will be great to look back on in years to come
oh and by the way a belated welcome to martialtalk

 

[kroh]

Good luck in Class number Three. Let us know how it goes!

The really cool thing here is that alot of use feel that same enthusiasm when a person gets into this stuff for the first time. Kerry, It is really cool to see you going for the next class. The more you post on the subject the more we can live vicariously through you endevors opcorn: .

If there is anything else we can do...don't be affraid to shout out...
Regards,
Walt

 

[Flying Crane]

It would really be best to go back on topic.

Yeah, I know, sorry for my part in letting this get so off topic. My sanity has returned and I'm ready to move on.

Kerry, you have a great attitude. You'll do fine.

 

[dianhsuhe]

Kerry- So? How'd it go??

James

 

[Pacificshore]

So can someone remind me what is the the vertical outward block and the extended outward block. These are the only two I think I am "blocked" on

By now you would have had your 3rd class
In any case, maybe you can tell me if this is right...vertical outward block is blocking to the outside of your body with the palm side of your hand facing you, and the extended would be with the palm of your hand facing away from you?? Does that sound right?

 

[BuddhaGirl]

Actually my third class is tonight at 6:30pm. I go every Tuesday and Thursday evening. But I will definately post and let you know how it goes.

I talked with a girl this morning who works at my gym and she has done Kenpo in the past and she recommended the book "Infinite Insights Into Kenpo" by Ed Parker. I believe someone else recommended this book to me as well. I may look into ordering it.

 

[MJS]

Actually my third class is tonight at 6:30pm. I go every Tuesday and Thursday evening. But I will definately post and let you know how it goes.

Yes, please let us know how it goes!:ultracool

I talked with a girl this morning who works at my gym and she has done Kenpo in the past and she recommended the book "Infinite Insights Into Kenpo" by Ed Parker. I believe someone else recommended this book to me as well. I may look into ordering it.

If you have the chance to pick up these books, I highly reccommend it!! There is a series of 5 books, all of which are very interesting to read.

Mike

 

[pete]

the Infinite Insights series (5 volumes) correlates more to the System of American Kenpo that Clyde (Dark Kenpo Lord) teaches and attempted to contrast here to what others may be doing.

I am not sure to what extent they will help a beginner in the AKKI kenpo you have started. Maybe one of the AKKI instructors (like Brother John) could give his opinion, or better yet ask your instructor what he thinks. I know zero of AKKI kenpo, but do know the Infinite Insights books are a bit of an investment!

I know firsthand, however, that they didn't help at all when I first read them, since the kenpo i was being taught was not the system as presented in the books. The books and the System as a whole makes a lot more sense to me now that I've been taught how the pieces fit together and the students Insights into the material is truly Infinite!.

pete

 

[Brother John]

Actually my third class is tonight at 6:30pm. I go every Tuesday and Thursday evening. But I will definately post and let you know how it goes.

I talked with a girl this morning who works at my gym and she has done Kenpo in the past and she recommended the book "Infinite Insights Into Kenpo" by Ed Parker. I believe someone else recommended this book to me as well. I may look into ordering it.

Yes!! That's a 5 book series. HUNT well for it, they're sometimes difficult to find, and even harder to find at a good price.

Your Brother
John

 

[Brother John]

I am not sure to what extent they will help a beginner in the AKKI kenpo you have started. Maybe one of the AKKI instructors (like Brother John) could give his opinion, or better yet ask your instructor what he thinks. I know zero of AKKI kenpo, but do know the Infinite Insights books are a bit of an investment!

pete

Good call Pete, thanks for taggin me!

Mind you though the great majority of my time in being a Kenpo Karate student has been through the curriculum of the AKKI, it's not the only American Kenpo that I've been taught or have studied. Though I am extremely proud to have come from such a fine group, I love and appreciate ALL of the Kenpo that came from or was influenced by the mind of Ed Parker Sr.! So maybe I can give some decent perspective here.

If a person has only studied the curriculum as presented "by the book" through the AKKI, the Infinite Insights books.... I think, can have every bit as much impact and benefit for the AKKI student as someone studying what I'd call the "EPAK" system, the base system by Mr. Parker as laid for his association in the last years of his life. Every bit as much.

The AKKI has many things w/in it's curriculum that is now distinctive of the AKKI, not existing in the parent system that it came from. But one of the benefits that comes from studying the Infinite Insights books is gaining an understanding and appreciation for how and why Mr. Parker set things up the way he did in his system... how things were catagorized and prioritized. When you gain some insight on how & why he did this, and then compare it to how and why Mr. Mills has made many of the changes and innovations that he has... it's easy to see why the New system retains the name "American Kenpo Karate" in full. (though others would disagree, I can only speak for my own opinion) Through getting a feel for what Mr. Parker did and why, I think an AKKI student can get the same feel for those very rational and logical conclusions that seem to have driven Mr. Mills to change what's been changed and retain what's been retained. ((I think it's a commonly held misunderstanding that these changes have made the two systems, the "EPAK" parent system and the AKKI offspring system, extremely dis-similar.... having had two different AKKI instuctors who first had gotten their Black Belts in the EPAK standard system befor becoming students of Mr. Mills....and then from having had two students of my own who'd come up through the EPAK system before coming to learn from myself....and then through having studied a both myself...I can tell you that the similarities and the commonalities are profound. There are distinctive differences....but they are BOTH "American Kenpo Karate", and like a father and his son, bare some striking resembelances.... pun intended))

Also: Mr. Mills holds the memory of his insturctor Very Very dear. It's a moving thing to hear him talk of the many lessons (Kenpo and non-Kenpo) that Mr. Parker shared with Mr. Mills over their years together and the impact/influence it had on him. Though Mr. Mills could easily feed his ego by trying to take FULL credit for singlehandedly creating the changes that make the AKKI unique, he often points out to people something to the effect of "This is the type of motion and innovation that my instructor was moving me toward all along, and I owe it to him for sharing it with me." ((not a direct quote, but the sentiment of things I have heard him say)) SO....in studying these books that Mr. Parker put out there for Kenpo students to gain "infinite insights into Kenpo", you gain an appreciation for where he was coming from...and thus have a better sense of where Mr. Mills is going.

BUT: One of the BIGGEST things that I find a great deal of value in concerning these books, is to give the student a good visual aid in detailing the BASICS!! Making things clear as far as angle and versatility of the foundational movements of American Kenpo. A Good inward block for an EPAK student...is after all...a Good inward block for an AKKI student!!

Also: aquiring knowledge of the terminology, principles and concepts that Mr. Parker peppered throughout the "Infinite Insights" books will undoubtedly assist the AKKI student in learning not just the "how" of Kenpo, but the "WHY". (In my mind, it's the WHY that drives Kenpo...and the how is the method through which you carry it out. I think that it's the "WHY" that determines if something really is "American Kenpo Karate" or not, and that the how is secondary or at least dependant on it. The "How" in the AKKI is different, no doubt. But the why? It's still in there, Strong and Healthy!!...and the "how" fits it well.)

SO..... do I think you should aquire and use these books, being an AKKI student?
Yes!!!!!!!!
I think if you study Any system that draws from the brainchild of Mr. Parker...you'd be remiss not too.

Enjoy!!! (and keep us informed as to how class goes tonight, I'm root'n for you!)

Your Brother
John

PS: Also....the AKKI Belt Manuals....which shouldn't be considered anything more than a reference resource to the student.... are Excellent! I see them as indespensable to the AKKI Kenpo student.
There are other publications out there with Good Kenpo knowledge in them, I recomend starting a library. BUT: Never neglect the Best written material on Kenpo EVER.....
Your own class notes, personal insights and ideas. Keep a journal of your journey. You'll be glad you did!

 

[pete]

hey brother john, glad you tuned in...

since you had prior training in the EPAK System, it may have made more sense to you and your later AKKI Kenpo training.

I look at it from a beginning in a hybrid curriculum, where i questioned: why am i not learning this, or doing this technique the same way... i also didn't follow the logical progression of the concepts as Systemized through the nature of the curriculum. This all makes sense to me now as i learn the system, put the pieces together, and see how it ties together.

Again, the II books can raise some questions in one's training, if the student is not familiar with the System. And may(?) confuse a student who may be learning a similar Style through a different System. The AKKI publications may be more consistent with the instruction she is receiving NOW (i think she's only been to 2-3 classes!), and maybe the time to add contrast would be after a few months. i don't know for sure, but that would be what i'd do.

Also, seeing as she trains in Maryland, there are 2 big events being planned for Baltimore later this year:

In August: Lee Epperson is hosting the LTKKA East Coast Camp with Larry Tatum and scores of other great instructors http://ltatum.com

In October: Joe Palanzo is hosting the annual WKKA Camp which he and his instructors have been doing a great job for over 20 years. http://www.wkka.org

Best way to know what you are doing is to get out and see what others are doing...

pete

 

[Brother John]

Actually, my exposure to EPAK only came in a here and there smattering before I was an AKKI student. The great majority of it came after I'd been in the AKKI. So the mind I took to the books was the mind of an AKKI beginner, though I'd owned 1-5 for 10 years before becoming an AKKI student.
See I've been a martial artist since I was very young, about 22 years Active now... not that much by some standards, but I've been at it for a while. In the town I grew up in there was no Kenpo instruction to be had. I attended a school that was a hybrid between Tae Kwan Do Moo Duk Kwan and GoJu Ryu Karate-Do. BUT: The instructor became good friends with a man named "Jack Farr". Mr. Farr had been a student of Mr. Parker. Mr. Farr made several trips to our school at the behest of the three instructors there....we paid him for several seminars. In the late 80's we went with him to two of Ed Parker's seminar.....and they blew me away. I loved what little Kenpo Mr. Farr was sharing with us and helping to integrate into our school's curriculum, but when I went to Mr. Parker's seminars.....WOW!! I was in Love with American Kenpo!!! So I bought the books.
YEARS later I found an American Kenpo Karate instructor.....so I moved to my family to live near him. His name is Roger W. Taylor and he's a student of Mr. Mills.
So when I came to the AKKI I'd already had a GOOD exposure to EPAK, but not really that much of an education in it. But I'd been digesting the books (including the Encycolpedia of American Kenpo, also by Ed Parker) for almost a decade. There wasn't that much of an adjustment at all to the ideology, terminology and methods of AKKI Kenpo..... it made good sense to me because it was So VERY similar to what I'd come to know and love from these 6 (now well worn) books. The logical progression of the concepts as presented through the curriculum of the AKKI was/is very much in keeping with the underlying reasons and rationale put forward in these books.
Later I'd come to have more of an "education" in EPAK, which I appreciate very much!! But I still prefer, by my opinion and tastes, what I'd gained through the AKKI... a great deal more.

I really do not believe that reading these books would confuse a first week white-belt in the AKKI. I think they'd do nothing but reenforce the lesons being given.

I do agree that it's good to appreciate and understand what other groups are doing, but one must do their best to deal with what's already on their plate before digging into Other meals. Those groups you listed are all fine organizations with many good people in them.
So is the AKKI.

Have a great day!

Your Brother
John

 

[BuddhaGirl]

Well I did it, I survived my third lesson (my first official one with the whole class). I think the teacher kind of took it easy on us in the warm up for my benefit, but it was still a good workout, I sweat, and huffed and puffed, it felt good.

Then the teacher went over the basics (again for my benefit, and to refresh the guys). I learned some new moves and when the more advanced students went to work on their things, he took me aside and taught me the intro to Form 1.

I did what some of you recommended and took a little notepad and took some notes at the end. I had him tell me the names of some of the moves I did and I wrote them down along with how to do them.

I really enjoyed it and I can't wait to go back Thursday!

Thanks again to everyone who boosted my confidence and gave me some great feedback. I look forward to more.

Kerry

 

[Brother John]

Good goin Kerry!!
Thanks for letting us know.
It sounds like you had a really good time. I knew you would. I'm glad you're going to keep notes too! It really helps me I know.

In a way I envy you, there's nothing like the excitement of getting underway in the martial arts!! ENJOY!!!!

I look forward to your updates on your progress!

Your Brother
John

 

[BuddhaGirl]

Brother John, I mentioned you to Mr. Smith and he knew who you were and said you were a good guy. Just thought I'd pass that along.

I also told him a bit about the conversation thread we have had here. He was amused. He also gave me some background on Kenpo and both Mr. Parker and Mr. Mills. It was very educational. A very good night overall. But I am beat now. But thats ok, tommorow morning 7am I will hit the gym and work off the soreness.

Funny thing, tonight a friend of mine called and asked where I was this evening and I told her I had started taking Kenpo. Her response, aren't you afraid you might break a hip or something. Sheesh..what am I? 70?

 

[michaeledward]

So can someone remind me what is the the vertical outward block and the extended outward block. These are the only two I think I am "blocked" on

They are a bit hard to describe in words ..... but ...

Vertical Outward Block - From your elbow to your fist is aligned vertically so that you can look at your fingers in your fist. (you should see your blocking hand fist, thumb on the right, pinky on the left). Your arm should be directly infront of your shoulder.

Extended Outward Block - Is extended in two directions from the Vertical Outward Block ... it is just a bit more forward, and a bit more 'outside. The easiest way to accomplish this is to do a Vertical Outward Block, then rotate your fist in a clockwise manner (for the right hand), moving the forearm just a bit forward, and pivoted around its prior location.

When thinking about blocks, think about a square shape at your shoulders; From your left shoulder to your right shoulder is one side of the square. On this square, the inward block should reach the opposite corner. (Right Inward Block reaches to the forward left corner). The Vertical Outward Block should reach the direct front corner (Left Vertical Outward Block reaches the forward left corner). The Extended Outward Block, is just on the outside of that square.

Good Luck ...