KennethKu
2nd Black Belt
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2002
- Messages
- 757
- Reaction score
- 17
You made a statement of truth. The training and conditioning intensity is the biggest factor.
However, there are inherent weakness and strength in each style. A competent BJJ person would not go to the ground when facing multiple attackers. A striker would not go to the ground with a grappler. A grappler would not get in a close range striking match against the elbows and knees of a MT fighter. IF you are any good at your MA, you ought to know its weakness and strength, and adapt accordingly.
Often, people judge the strength and weakness of a MA based on its sport version. That is distortion to the Nth degree.
Well with no sport version of my system it makes it hard for me to judge others. I prefer to judge the fighter on a case by case basis. The key to training is to withstand your personal weaknesses in training. If you have a weakness with certain techniques you work on and against those techniques in training.
7sm
In Mauy Thai They do clinch.
This is were Grappling begin.
I don't Know any Grapplers that travel alone
Of corse Fighting Mutipal oppents is
Not Good for any style
The odds are always in the #'s
A striker should Watch out for Mutipal Grapplers
2 Legs 2 Arms Snap Crakel Pop
LoL no afence
it's a joke he he haha
:snipe2:
:snipe2: :snipe2:
This is were Grappling begin.
I don't Know any Grapplers that travel alone
Of corse Fighting Mutipal oppents is
Not Good for any style
The odds are always in the #'s
A striker should Watch out for Mutipal Grapplers
2 Legs 2 Arms Snap Crakel Pop
LoL no afence
it's a joke he he haha
:snipe2:
:snipe2: :snipe2:
OP
RyuShiKan
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #107
I sent TLC and The Discovery Channel several letters asking them how & why they had certain folks ranked or even on the show.
There reply was they had farmed all the production out to another company to produce and therefore had nothing to do with making the show.
Sorry I'm late to the party..its been a long day..
Folks, Keep it polite and respectful, and keep it on topic. The drift in heres a bit much.
Thank you
:asian:
Folks, Keep it polite and respectful, and keep it on topic. The drift in heres a bit much.
Thank you
:asian:
OP
RyuShiKan
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #109
I think it is but you have to use Muay Thai Rules from what I hear.
OP
RyuShiKan
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #110
I disagree in part. There are only weaknesses in the person practicing the art..........not the art itself.
Sorry to say but most MA people these days don't stick with a style long enough and give up and go somehwere else.
True. Like I said above..........it's not the art that has the weakness. If a grappler thinks he can go to the ground with one guy while the guys friends just stand around and watch his strategy has a weakness. Grappling arts that I have seen have scenarios to deal with multiple attackers that don't call for going to the ground.
Again it depends on the situation. Okinawan Karate has various grappling components in it called "tuite".
I agree. I think too many people don't realize or a just not taught how make their art effective against other types of art so they "dojo hop" or "style hop". The result is they often get a mish mash of bits and pieces.
I agree.
Since we all agree that the TLC list sucks I made another poll.
Please read the following criteria for ranking martial arts and rank them with a brief description for why you put them in that order. Please don't wave your styles flag and don't slam other styles in your answers.
Which do you think are #'s 1~10 in each of the following categories:
(1 being the best)
I am not going to give you a MA style list so fill in whatever style you like.
1) All around non-sport fighting, save your *** on the street effectiveness from one or more attackers?
2) A balance of spiritual and physical training?
3) Most traditional while remaining street effective?
4) Most traditional while being sport effective?
5) Least traditional while being street effective?
6) Least traditional while being sport effective?
7) The easiest to learn and then actually do?
(clarify if it is sport oriented or street oriented...........don't put "both" since sport techniques are often different than street)
8) Most fun to watch in competition?
Section 2:
1) Which category do you put yourself into sports martial artist or training for the street?
(clarify if it is sport oriented or street oriented...........don't put "both" since sport techniques are often different than street)
2) If you compete in sport how many events have you entered and won?
(key word here is won meaning nemero uno #1)
3) If you train for street how many times have you used it?
(since you will be answering this I assume you "won" since you are still with us)
4) What do you feel is the most important aspect of martial arts training?
(be brief)
5) How would you rate your skill level as a martial artist?
(no flag waving or egos please)
OP
Kirk
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #111
Just to chime support, I'm speaking up here. I think your poll
is a great idea, but personally, I don't have enough time in
to be able to given an educated answer. I'd be "shooting from
the hip".
is a great idea, but personally, I don't have enough time in
to be able to given an educated answer. I'd be "shooting from
the hip".
OP
bob919
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #112
actually every art has a weakness i am not gonna bore you by listing them
you say that people don't stick with a single art long enough that my be true but moving to a differnt art after a couple of years is advantageous because it can help fill the holes in your training
you say that people don't stick with a single art long enough that my be true but moving to a differnt art after a couple of years is advantageous because it can help fill the holes in your training
Basically yes, what I'm saying is the weakness in training that so many people feel the need to fill by "crosstraining" is a weakness in the individual, not the system they are training in. Don't get me wrong, there are people who cross train for very specific reasons, but the people who say they are cross training to get well rounded, and learn striking from this art and kicks from this art, they are only feeding their weakness I believe. If you stick to one or a few systems that are very closely related, you will see your own inherant weaknesses and you can pinpoint them and train out those weaknesses. Its just my opinion but what I ask people most when they say a system didn't work for them is, " It didn't work for you, or you didn't work for it"?.
7sm
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
While I would typically be arguing against Kirk for one reason or another (seems like we have had our share of differences in the past), I have to toss my flag into his camp on this one...
It seems, all too often, that people think they can study a particular martial art for a certain period of time, and then they will know enough about it to start spouting off about all its weaknesses. After they rant long enough, they start looking around for another martial art that will fit their bill a little better (i.e. faster promotions, less forms, faster train up rate, whatever...).
It seems to be an epidemic in the years since the first UFC that people believe that they can take a little Muay Thai to "develop their stand up game," and take a little BJJ to "develop their ground game," and they will somehow manage to be a super duper ultra champ.
Fine. The formula works for those interested in such things.
But the thing I notice is that these people are rarely content. They train and train and train, but in the end they still start looking around again trying to add things to their game.
The other thing I get a real kick out of are the folks that think that seminars alone give them an insight into a martial art. Seminars are brief snapshots, and if done correctly, will give you far more information than you could possibly absorb in the short period of time a person is in attendance. Even if a person video tapes the seminar, and goes back to train on the subject matter taught, they will still fall short in comparison to the person that actually studies with that style full time. I don't think anyone would argue this point.
But a seminar here, and a seminar there, in vastly different martial arts, will not, in my opinion, allow someone to develop any degree of skill in those disparate styles. There is simply too little follow up on what was taught, how it was trained, and the context in which those techniques are intended to be used.
I think that, while there are some very rare exceptions, seminar training is more like continuing education than it is basic education. If you already have a strong foundation, it is easier to absorb ideas from seminars. If you are hopping around from school to school, seminar to seminar, in search of that ultimate weapon to add to your arsenal, I think you would be better off studying consistently at a good mini-mall karate school... At least there is direct supervision of that training, whereas such supervision after the seminar is non-existent.
While I am a hard core traditionalist, and believe firmly that the MMA people are deluding themselves with their approach to MA in general (and their attitude toward traditional, classical styles in particular), I won't deny that there have been many champions produced by their formula of training...
Of course, there were some slaves that survived their encounters with lions back in Rome, too... Not saying it is only dumb luck, but it makes you wonder...
My best advice - search out, find, and visit a school that is classical in its orientation. If they can't break down the forms, don't go there. If they are more focused on tournament trophies than training, don't go there. If they have more patches on their uniforms than they have thumbs, don't go there. If their teacher claims high grade rank (over 4th degree) and is less than 30 years old, don't go there. If you are expected to attend a personal interview, are not allowed to visit to watch class, are told you are not allowed to study elsewhere while attending that school, are required to tithe your income to the teacher, are expected to call anyone grandmaster or other inflated titles, or the instructor's inability to answer the tough questions is excused by the alleged secrecy of the style, don't go there.
If you can clear all those hurdles with ease, I suggest you study there and get to it as quickly as you can. Stick with it, and all the "secrets" you hope to find will reveal themselves to you when you are ready to understand them.
Gambarimasu.
It seems, all too often, that people think they can study a particular martial art for a certain period of time, and then they will know enough about it to start spouting off about all its weaknesses. After they rant long enough, they start looking around for another martial art that will fit their bill a little better (i.e. faster promotions, less forms, faster train up rate, whatever...).
It seems to be an epidemic in the years since the first UFC that people believe that they can take a little Muay Thai to "develop their stand up game," and take a little BJJ to "develop their ground game," and they will somehow manage to be a super duper ultra champ.
Fine. The formula works for those interested in such things.
But the thing I notice is that these people are rarely content. They train and train and train, but in the end they still start looking around again trying to add things to their game.
The other thing I get a real kick out of are the folks that think that seminars alone give them an insight into a martial art. Seminars are brief snapshots, and if done correctly, will give you far more information than you could possibly absorb in the short period of time a person is in attendance. Even if a person video tapes the seminar, and goes back to train on the subject matter taught, they will still fall short in comparison to the person that actually studies with that style full time. I don't think anyone would argue this point.
But a seminar here, and a seminar there, in vastly different martial arts, will not, in my opinion, allow someone to develop any degree of skill in those disparate styles. There is simply too little follow up on what was taught, how it was trained, and the context in which those techniques are intended to be used.
I think that, while there are some very rare exceptions, seminar training is more like continuing education than it is basic education. If you already have a strong foundation, it is easier to absorb ideas from seminars. If you are hopping around from school to school, seminar to seminar, in search of that ultimate weapon to add to your arsenal, I think you would be better off studying consistently at a good mini-mall karate school... At least there is direct supervision of that training, whereas such supervision after the seminar is non-existent.
While I am a hard core traditionalist, and believe firmly that the MMA people are deluding themselves with their approach to MA in general (and their attitude toward traditional, classical styles in particular), I won't deny that there have been many champions produced by their formula of training...
Of course, there were some slaves that survived their encounters with lions back in Rome, too... Not saying it is only dumb luck, but it makes you wonder...
My best advice - search out, find, and visit a school that is classical in its orientation. If they can't break down the forms, don't go there. If they are more focused on tournament trophies than training, don't go there. If they have more patches on their uniforms than they have thumbs, don't go there. If their teacher claims high grade rank (over 4th degree) and is less than 30 years old, don't go there. If you are expected to attend a personal interview, are not allowed to visit to watch class, are told you are not allowed to study elsewhere while attending that school, are required to tithe your income to the teacher, are expected to call anyone grandmaster or other inflated titles, or the instructor's inability to answer the tough questions is excused by the alleged secrecy of the style, don't go there.
If you can clear all those hurdles with ease, I suggest you study there and get to it as quickly as you can. Stick with it, and all the "secrets" you hope to find will reveal themselves to you when you are ready to understand them.
Gambarimasu.
OP
Kirk
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #115
Don't worry, I won't let it go to my head. :rofl: :rofl:
Seriously though, I yeild to your experience and knowledge, and
admit to being a hot head, often. I totally respect your ... umm ...
unbiasedness? (is that even a word).
This would be great as a mini article, on a website or something.
Mind if I steal it?
Strikers friends go to stomp
Grapplers friends takes Strikers Friends
To the Ground Snap Crackel PoP
Grapplers seemt to be alone in every
Fight posted
If the Grappler takes U down & mounts U
Don't worry about Submisson
The Straight Blast to the Face Will be good enough.
Also if The Grappler dose a
Double Leg Slam
On the Cocrete It's gonna Send Reality Crashing thru a Window
Striking & Grappling
Together is The Way to go>
Grapplers friends takes Strikers Friends
To the Ground Snap Crackel PoP
Grapplers seemt to be alone in every
Fight posted
If the Grappler takes U down & mounts U
Don't worry about Submisson
The Straight Blast to the Face Will be good enough.
Also if The Grappler dose a
Double Leg Slam
On the Cocrete It's gonna Send Reality Crashing thru a Window
Striking & Grappling
Together is The Way to go>
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
You bet. And traditional systems that have not gone the way of the mini-mall McDojo contain both...
That is the whole point of contention between traditionalists (from real schools) and MMAists... The MMAists think traditional = crap mini-mall instruction.
We do LOTS of grappling stuff in my style. We don't roll on the ground with him, however. We hit him, throw him, hit him some more, apply joint locks to keep him in pain, then hit him more.
Gambarimasu.
Ace where are you from? Are you from the States ?
I live In N.Y.
Yes this is in the States
I was born in the states
Im 1/2 Puerto Rican,German,Irish & Native American
I have Hazel eyes, Brown Hair
My intrest are MMA fighting ,Weight lifting,Wrestling
Arnis De Mano,Submisson Grappling, KickBoxing
Yes this is in the States
I was born in the states
Im 1/2 Puerto Rican,German,Irish & Native American
I have Hazel eyes, Brown Hair
My intrest are MMA fighting ,Weight lifting,Wrestling
Arnis De Mano,Submisson Grappling, KickBoxing
