TLC Top 10 Martial Arts

[Kirk]

So many rules. [facetious] Just out of curiosity, of the rules
listed .. which ones are also rules in a street fight? [/facetious]

 

[LeeKrol]

Alright, here are the rules for an upcoming traditional sport karate tournament.



KRANE Nationals 2002 - AAAAA (Plus) Sunday November 17, 2002 Johnson & Wales Inn Seekonk, Mass

Legal Target Areas: Entire head and face, ribs, chest, abdomen and kidneys.

Illegal Target Areas: Spine, back of neck, throat, sides of neck, groin, legs, knees and back are all illegal target areas. Any attacks to these areas could result in a warning and/or penalty points.

Non-Target Areas: Hips, shoulders, buttocks, arms, and feet are all non-target areas. Points cannot be scored to non-target area. If it is deemed that a competitor is actually attacking these areas, warning and/or penalty point may be awarded.

Legal Techniques: Legal techniques are all controlled sport karate techniques, except those listed as illegal. When determining the legality of a technique, the official considers if the technique is a legitimate, controlled sport karate technique that adheres to all other rules governing sport point karate.

Illegal Techniques: Head butts, hair pulls, bites, scratches, elbows, knees, eye attacks of any kind, take downs on hard surface floors, ground fighting on hard surface floors, any stomps or kicks to the head of a downed opponent, slapping, grabbing for more than one second, uncontrolled blind techniques, any uncontrolled dangerous techniques that are deemed unsafe in sport karate. (For more information on legal and illegal techniques, see "Judging" section.)

Sweeps, Takedowns, Grabs, and Ground Fighting: Sweeps not to take down an opponent, but only to obstruct the balance can only be executed to the back of the front leg at mid-calf or below. These described sweeps are legal on all types of fighting surfaces if the sweep is only to force the opponent off balance so as to execute a technique to an upright opponent. If the sweep is considered to have knocked down the opponent, then it would be illegal except on a padded surface. It is important to note that sweeps do not make it legal to kick the legs. A sweep must be deemed proper sweep and not a kick, to be legal.

A competitor may grab the uniform top of his/her opponent in an attempt to score. He/she may grip the uniform top for one second, after which time he/she must release the uniform. Likewise, the uniform pants may be grabbed. A kick may be trapped or grabbed for one second for purposes of executing a counterattack to an upright opponent.

Deliberately dropping to the floor to avoid or evade fighting is not legal. All dropping to the floor deliberately on a hard surface is not legal. A fighter is down when any part of the body, other than the feet is touching the floor.




Just my opinion, but it seems like there is more rules here in a sport karate tournament than a UFC/Pride type match. Who would be better geared for the street? Can anyone not living in a fantasy world please tell me?

 

[Bod]

I can't believe they don't allow hair grabs or pinches.

I reckon the hair grab thing is to allow personalities develop - i.e. stop everybody from having to shave their head.

 

[JDenz]

Check out the rules for the first couple UFC back when it was stlye versus style and not cross training. No biting, no eye gouging, 5 minutes rounds. that was it. everything else was legal until UFC 7 when they added no fishhooking, no vitial point striking, then when Congress got on there butt they added the rules to make it a sport. That is what it is a sport. We all know that, no doubt in anyone's mind.
Guys and Gals that train MMA style are not all grapplers. Alot are strikers that want to be able to defend themselves on the ground. Guys like GIlbert Yvel, Mo Smith, spent years in stand up arts, Kimo did TKD, Goodridge TSD, Jay Delucia KF. They all learned to fight in every range on the ground on the feet. MMA people train there body to fight, weather it is a sport fight or a fight in the street they are trained to take shots dish out shots and play a ground game.

 

[kenposcum]

If Bruce got into a fight with anybody he would've pulled out his .45 "And bang! Settle[d] it."
I seem to remember him saying that would be his technique of choice if someone broke into his house.
:asian:

 

[ace]

If Bruce Were alive today he would be on the Level.

Before he died he was traning With Judo Gene & Wally Jay

Early UFC had less Rules
Pride has less rules
Wvc has less rules then them.


_____________________________

In the street there are no rules

So A body Slam on a fire hydren is legal
______________________________

 

[Master of Blades]

If you guys are saying that if Bruce came back today that he would get his *** wooped...the your probably right. he has been dead for howver long. But If he hadnt died then I reckon he would still be one of the worlds greatest because he would have adapted nowdays.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Kirk


UFC rules, as approved by the
Nevada State Athletic Commission

Weight classes:
1. Lightweight - over 145 lbs. to 155 lbs.
2. Welterweight - over 155 lbs. to 170 lbs.
3. Middleweight - over 170 lbs. to 185 lbs.
4. Light Heavyweight - over 185 lbs. to 205 lbs.
5. Heavyweight - over 205 lbs. to 265 lbs.


Bout duration:
1. All non-championship bouts shall be three rounds.
2. All championship bouts shall be five rounds.
3. Rounds will be five minutes in duration, with a one minute.
4. A one-minute rest period will occur between each round.


Fouls:
1. Butting with the head.
2. Eye gouging of any kind.
3. Biting.
4. Hair pulling.
5. Fish hooking.
6. Groin attacks of any kind.
7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any
cut or laceration on an opponent.
8. Small joint manipulation.
9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
13. Grabbing the clavicle.
14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
16. Stomping a grounded opponent.
17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
19. Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
20. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
21. Spitting at an opponent.
22. Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.
23. Holding the ropes or the fence.
24. Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area.
25. Attacking an opponent on or during the break.
26. Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee.
27. Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
28. Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee.
29. Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury.
30. Interference by the corner.
31. Throwing in the towel during competition.


Ways To Win:
Submission by:
1. Physical tap out.
2. Verbal tap out.
3. Technical knockout by the referee stopping the contest.
4. Decision via the scorecards, including:
- Unanimous decision.
- Split decision.
- Majority decision.
Draw, including:
- Unanimous draw.
- Majority draw.
- Split draw.
5. Technical decision.
6. Technical draw.
7. Disqualification.
8. Forfeit.
9. No contest.


Referee may Restart the round:
If the fighters reach a stalemate and do not work
to improve position or finish.

Seems like a lot of rules for something that is supposedly "no holds barred"

 

[Bob Hubbard]

7. Putting a finger into any orifice...

Is this -really- a problem?

:rofl:

 

[Damian Mavis]

Don't reveal my secret technique!!

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Bob Hubbard]

24. Using abusive language

Oh my...save us.....:rofl:

20. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.

So, I guess the spinning wedgie is out huh?

21. Spitting at an opponent.

Damn...there goes my famoud "cobra" move....oh wait, I swore....I hate being DQed in a NHB fight....

22. Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.

You mean I can't bring a chair in a nail them in the head 26 times? I thought the name was "No Holds Barred"...not "You can do everything Except all these moves".


I'm holding out for true gladitorial games.....
:duel:

 

[ace]

Im ready sounds great><><><
:bomb: :EG: :bomb:
:cheers: :cheers:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Kirk

Fouls:
1. Butting with the head.
2. Eye gouging of any kind.


5. Fish hooking.
6. Groin attacks of any kind.
7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any
cut or laceration on an opponent.
8. Small joint manipulation.
9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.

13. Grabbing the clavicle.
14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
16. Stomping a grounded opponent.
17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.

20. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.

In a REAL fight wouldn't people be doing one or more of the above mentioned????

 

[Cthulhu]

I remember way back when the UFC had no weight classes, no rounds, and limited rules regarding padding (gloves, shoes, etc.).

And it still sucked.

I'm sorry, but two sweaty guys (often overweight) rolling around on the ground for 45 minutes was not pretty to watch.

I don't doubt that most of these fighters have some skill, train hard, and could probably put a mean hurting on me in a real fight, but don't say the UFC is realistic fighting. If it has rules of any kind, then it's a game...an incredibly violent and bloody game, yes, but a game nonetheless. In a real fight, you don't roll around with a fella for several minutes, waiting for his buddies to do all sorts of unmentionable things to you while your limbs are tied up.

Hell, these days, you're lucky if your opponent doesn't whip out a gun and put a .45 caliber channel through your frontal lobe.


Cthulhu

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Cthulhu


Hell, these days, you're lucky if your opponent doesn't whip out a gun and put a .45 caliber channel through your frontal lobe.


Cthulhu

Either that or a few 9mm from his MAC 10 and from 20 yards away no less as he drives by.

 

[ace]

I would love to see it

 

[Angus]

Uh, see what?

LeeKrol, at least compare apples to apples. Find a NHB Karate tournament (or at least full-contact knockout, and yes they DO exist) and compare it's rules to UFC. They're pretty similiar.

 

[sammy3170]

Originally posted by LeeKrol

Alright, for those of you who didn't catch it, TLC had an hour long show called "Top 10 Ultimate Martial Arts". Here is the arts they listed as the Top 10, in order :

1) Shaolin Kung Fu
2) Karate
3) Muay Thai Kickboxing
4) Ninjutsu
5) Juko-Kai (Combat Ki)
6) Aikido
7) Tae Kwon Do
8) Krav Maga
9) Kali
10) Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

Hrmmmmm........Muay Thai looks to me like the only one that is even CLOSE to being in the right spot. I am not sure what the criteria is for this list, but if the criteria is combat applications, this list is dead wrong, and we can thank the UFC and Pride for proving this.

Think I'm wrong? Royce Gracie vs. Minoki Ichihara. The Karateka was quickly dismantled by the BJJ master. Number 2 vs Number 10 according to the TLC list, and Number 2 was destroyed. Does the name Fred Ettish ring a bell? Johnny Rhodes sure rung his bell in the UFC. I could pull out a flurry of other matches to list, but I think I proved my point. Anyone that thinks a top Karate or Tae Kwon Do practitioner would beat any quality Muay Thai or BJJ practitioner is living in a fantasy world.

I am wondering what the criteria are? Influence of the arts? If that is the case, where is JKD? Where is Pankration? Can anyone really make a real case for Juko-Kai being more influential than JKD, wrestling, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu? Please do, I would love to hear it.

Is the criteria popularity? Again, where is JKD? Is Juko-Kai more popular than Tae Kwon Do? BJJ is gaining mass popularity all over the world. What about American Boxing?

Is the criteria toughness? Kali would be much higher than ninth I can promise you that. Muay Thai and BJJ would be right up there too. These are some of the toughest fighters on the planet, physically a lot tougher than an Aikido practitioner. To nip the ensuing ripping from the Aiki-marks right in the bud, name me an Aikido practitioner who would beat Vanderlei Silva, Mirko Cro-Cop, or Ernesto Hoost on the street before you call me ignorant. When you name some guy no one has ever heard of, answer me this: Why aren't they rolling in Pride or UFC then?

Is the criteria "the gift of the art to the world"? Where is wrestling or JKD? What about boxing?

Is the criteria beauty of the art? Where is Capoeira? Where is Wushu? Where is Tai Chi?

What I am ranting about is really very simple : What criteria does this list follow? I would love to hear what people have to say about this list, defend your arts if you want, and make a Top Ten of your own if so inclined.

I don't like Top Ten lists personally. How you can take all the different arts, with all of their different theories and contributions to the martial arts world, throw them all together and say which is the best is ridiculous. I'd love to hear what everyone has to say about this.

Thanks.

Lee M. Krol

I say who gives a fat rats clacker. If you enjoy what you do, good, keep doing it. This really is BS.

Cheers
Sammy

 

[ace]

><><><
ACE

 

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by ace

I would love to see it

You give me a couple of years to train and wait for me to load my gun and Ill get in the ring with anyone.