TKD is Weak on the street as a self defense?

[dvcochran]

Hi everyone

I took my first TKD ITF lesson yesterday, I really enjoyed it.

I do have however have some concerns, I'm always reading how TKD is simply too impractical for the street as a defense art and it's one of the arts to be avoided along with Aikido.

Could someone give me some clarity on this?

The place I just joined has the TKD and also has Street awareness incorporated in to the sessions.

My initial thought was to take TKD and also do either JUDO/JJJ along side with it.

My main goal is to be able to protect my family if a dangerous situation were to occur.

I have worked out in many styles of TKD, ITF included, but my primary TKD background is Moo Duk Kwan & WTF. WTF particularly gets a bad rap because it is an Olympic sport and it has a lot of market value making it the king of the hill in the business/profit aspect of the MA world exponentially. TKD schools that are teaching only WTF elements usually do lack in self defense skills unless/until you are naturally flexible and athletic. It is, and always has been an out fighting style. As far as endurance, cardio, and getting over physically fit it is the best system I have experienced. Too many "instructors" have earned a BB and then are leaned on the help keep their Dojang running. Too often they are just not ready and a lot gets lost in the learning process. It has been said many times, sparring is an integral of any good MA program. Especially in TKD, a lot of sparring is about overcoming the fear of getting/giving contact. Very different of what usually happens in a self defense situation. That is why any good school who promotes teaching physical self defense should have a completely different "set" of practice for self defense, practiced with resistance as safely as possible. Theory just doesn't work here. I know of too many school of various styles that just do not know any of these elements. Assuming you are an adult this should be clearly evident and something your instructor(s) should easily be able to explain to you if they are worth their salt.

 

[drop bear]

Dan Kelly is a prime example.

Video. I mean he just shouldn't survive striking with anyone. But he just does.

Daniel Kelly vs Steve Montgomery Full Fight UFC 193 [2] MMA Video

 

[Dirty Dog]

I have worked out in many styles of TKD, ITF included, but my primary TKD background is Moo Duk Kwan & WTF.

Impossible, since there is no such thing as WTF TKD. The WTF is a sports governing body; they have no curriculum, nor do they award rank, nor are there any WTF schools (only National Governing Bodies to supervise Olympic trials). Perhaps you mean Kukkiwon TKD?
Who did you train with in the Moo Duk Kwan?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You get guys who are naturally

It happens. Mighty mouse is a white belt. Wilson reis is a bjj black belt champion.
Wilson Reis | BJJ Heroes

There is no shouldn’t there just is.

That's why I used myself as an example. My ground game should be pretty easily handle-able by a BJJ BB under normal conditions. If said BB has been hit a few times, conditions may change.

"Should" isn't a bad word - it's a statement of most likely outcome. It only becomes problematic if I hold back so I don't embarrass a BJJ BB, because I shouldn't submit him.

 

[Steve]

Impossible, since there is no such thing as WTF TKD. The WTF is a sports governing body; they have no curriculum, nor do they award rank, nor are there any WTF schools (only National Governing Bodies to supervise Olympic trials). Perhaps you mean Kukkiwon TKD?
Who did you train with in the Moo Duk Kwan?

Calm down, man. Jesus Christ. 7 posts in and you're blasting the guy.

@dvcochran Welcome to MT. This is a friendly forum, mostly. It doesn't look like you've been over to the Meet and Greet area. why don't you go over and tell us a little about yourself? Where you train and such.

 

[Steve]

That's why I used myself as an example. My ground game should be pretty easily handle-able by a BJJ BB under normal conditions. If said BB has been hit a few times, conditions may change.

"Should" isn't a bad word - it's a statement of most likely outcome. It only becomes problematic if I hold back so I don't embarrass a BJJ BB, because I shouldn't submit him.

Was it Renzo Gracie or Royce who said that when you punch a black belt, he becomes a brown belt. Punch him again and he's a purple belt.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Was it Renzo Gracie or Royce who said that when you punch a black belt, he becomes a brown belt. Punch him again and he's a purple belt.

I hadn't heard that. I suspect that's true of a lot of us.

 

[Steve]

Found the actual quote. It was Carlson Gracie:

“Punch a black belt in the face, he becomes a brown belt. Punch him again, purple...”
— Carlson Gracie

 

[Dirty Dog]

Calm down, man. Jesus Christ. 7 posts in and you're blasting the guy.

@dvcochran Welcome to MT. This is a friendly forum, mostly. It doesn't look like you've been over to the Meet and Greet area. why don't you go over and tell us a little about yourself? Where you train and such.

Calm down yourself, Steve. Stating a fact is hardly "blasting" anyone. Neither is asking a question about what appears to be a commonality in our lineage.

 

[Steve]

Calm down yourself, Steve. Stating a fact is hardly "blasting" anyone. Neither is asking a question about what appears to be a commonality in our lineage.

Okay buddy. Easy.

 

[DaveB]

You get guys who are naturally

It happens. Mighty mouse is a white belt. Wilson reis is a bjj black belt champion.
Wilson Reis | BJJ Heroes

There is no shouldn’t there just is.

You didn't finish your sentence, but I'm pretty sure you are wrong.

 

[Ironbear24]

Train it hard and you will become able to handle yourself just fine.

 

[Ironbear24]

By hard I mean live practice. Sparring, drills ect.

 

[drop bear]

That's why I used myself as an example. My ground game should be pretty easily handle-able by a BJJ BB under normal conditions. If said BB has been hit a few times, conditions may change.

"Should" isn't a bad word - it's a statement of most likely outcome. It only becomes problematic if I hold back so I don't embarrass a BJJ BB, because I shouldn't submit him.

which happens. There is this expectation. Which is why I dont agree with the philosophy. If I get manhandled by a low belt. Then that happened. It is not a thing. It is just the reality of honest training.

 

[Buka]

Found the actual quote. It was Carlson Gracie:

“Punch a black belt in the face, he becomes a brown belt. Punch him again, purple...”
— Carlson Gracie

I don't understand what he means by this.

 

[Steve]

I don't understand what he means by this.

Lol. Let me punch you.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

which happens. There is this expectation. Which is why I dont agree with the philosophy. If I get manhandled by a low belt. Then that happened. It is not a thing. It is just the reality of honest training.

It does happen, more often with instructors. It’s more about an expectation of infallibility than an expectation of being able to outclass.

Edit: Knife defenses are a good example.

 

[DaveB]

which happens. There is this expectation. Which is why I dont agree with the philosophy. If I get manhandled by a low belt. Then that happened. It is not a thing. It is just the reality of honest training.

So you didn't read my post then.

My point was a pasting from a raw beginner means you as the bb have work to do.

I am advocating self analysis and correctional training. "Should" is a requirement of any standard....

like "should spar regularly".

 

[JR 137]

So you didn't read my post then.

My point was a pasting from a raw beginner means you as the bb have work to do.

I am advocating self analysis and correctional training. "Should" is a requirement of any standard....

like "should spar regularly".

I’m pretty sure what he’s saying is your “should spar regularly” statement needs to be changed to “MUST spar regularly” and the like. When “should” is stated, it implies it’s ok if the person doesn’t; when “must” is stated, there’s no excuses.

I think I’ve been getting better at reading drop bear-ese.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I’m pretty sure what he’s saying is your “should spar regularly” statement needs to be changed to “MUST spar regularly” and the like. When “should” is stated, it implies it’s ok if the person doesn’t; when “must” is stated, there’s no excuses.

I think I’ve been getting better at reading drop bear-ese.

That wasn’t what I took from it, though you may have the right of it. I took DB’s post as pointing to the “should” that creeps into some dojos, that leads people to not question and to not give full attempts against their instructor, so they won’t embarrass him.