TKD history - trying to find lineage

[Laurentkd]

Just in case if you missed it...

Is GM Kim Soo's system (Chayon Ryu) recognized by the Kukkiwon/KTA/WTF?

I would say that would solely depend on if he holds rank with Kukkiwon. Assuming he holds a high enough rank to promote those below him then yes, Kukkiwon would allow him to recognize his students under his system with a Kukkiwon certificate.

 

[YounWha]

I would say that would solely depend on if he holds rank with Kukkiwon. Assuming he holds a high enough rank to promote those below him then yes, Kukkiwon would allow him to recognize his students under his system with a Kukkiwon certificate.

Does anyone know the answer to this - Robert McLain...can you help?

 

[boricua581]

boricua581 -
I see you train in Youn Wha Ryu as well (2nd Dan).
Which area do you train out of?

If you go to www.masterhans.com that has to evolving/updating events on GMH. I am talking to someone down there to help with the lineage. PM me your email and we can correspond from there about our findings.

According to their web site - we have this information:
May 9, 1938 GMH BORN

I was also told a story about General Choi and GMH - but it points to the Choi that founded the ITF - and that GMH was drinking a lot one night talking to Gen. Choi about his plans to bring korean martial arts abroad...and that Gen. Choi took GMH's ideas and used them to start the ITF...and now that's why GMH does not drink.

Put this in your time line as well:
1972 - GMH received 8th Dan from TKD Jidokwan 57th promotional testing
by Lee, Chong Woo

1974 - Received Instructor's certificate from Korea TKD Assn, signed by Kim, Un Yong dated 30 Nov, 1974

Let me know where you found information about GMH being in the korean military.

I train in Ozarks in Missouri. My email is hotmail.com. And its my sing in name. Whenever you email me, on the subject, write somethinglike Youn Wha Ryu Findings all in capital letter. because I usually just skim through my emails and delete them if I dont recognize them. And that has been a problem a couple of times . But I will add those to my timeline. And for the GM Choi story. That is pretty interesting. Weird situation too. But the thing was that when I was told the story, I was told that Choi was assassinated. And Gen. Choi (ITF) passed away not to long ago. So I dont know. But I just thought that it would be weirdly ironic that two grandmasters have a tie like that.

 

[boricua581]

One thing that I was wondering, which I think would really help ALOT, is what are the association names of the arts that GM Han received his ranks in. And another thing that would help is the dates of all his ranks within those associations. I dont know who to talk to about that, but that would really help. I will post my revised timeline. Its NOT finished, but it's pretty good and I think it's pretty accurate. It also has other dates from different associations that were founded, which I think it would help to have a parallel type of source. But Im going to post this later, because I got make sure I have the dates that I got in order.

 

[YounWha]

One thing that I was wondering, which I think would really help ALOT, is what are the association names of the arts that GM Han received his ranks in. And another thing that would help is the dates of all his ranks within those associations. I dont know who to talk to about that, but that would really help. I will post my revised timeline. Its NOT finished, but it's pretty good and I think it's pretty accurate. It also has other dates from different associations that were founded, which I think it would help to have a parallel type of source. But Im going to post this later, because I got make sure I have the dates that I got in order.

I also have a timeline and theoretical lineage of GMH. The master's in Dallas are using my information along with their's and will be asking GMH directly once they get everything organized. The one thing I found out that all of our (TKD) forms from brown belt to 8th Dan are the same one's used in WTF today - minus TaeBaek...we don't do that form. The forms we call "Du-Tae" and "Hun-Kwon" are misspelled. They are actually spelled "Ji-Tae" and "Chun-Kwon".

The last form that we call "Keum-Gang-Jang" (jang means "form") could be one of two forms: Kum Gang Kwon (from Kang Duk Won) or Keum Gang (TKD). Since no one but GMH knows how to do this form in our system - I am not sure which one it is.

I will give you something to chew on...look at our patch on our uniform closely (chest patch)...then look at any Kan Duk Won patch (chest patch).

As far as ranking certificate's - the master's in Dallas have those and will be talking to GMH and getting those lined out as well. The problem is that the history of TKD and the power struggle at that time was going on...so GMH's certificates could have come from school's that the KTA either did not endorse or didn't know about.

 

[boricua581]

I also have a timeline and theoretical lineage of GMH. The master's in Dallas are using my information along with their's and will be asking GMH directly once they get everything organized. The one thing I found out that all of our (TKD) forms from brown belt to 8th Dan are the same one's used in WTF today - minus TaeBaek...we don't do that form. The forms we call "Du-Tae" and "Hun-Kwon" are misspelled. They are actually spelled "Ji-Tae" and "Chun-Kwon".

The last form that we call "Keum-Gang-Jang" (jang means "form") could be one of two forms: Kum Gang Kwon (from Kang Duk Won) or Keum Gang (TKD). Since no one but GMH knows how to do this form in our system - I am not sure which one it is.

I will give you something to chew on...look at our patch on our uniform closely (chest patch)...then look at any Kan Duk Won patch (chest patch).

As far as ranking certificate's - the master's in Dallas have those and will be talking to GMH and getting those lined out as well. The problem is that the history of TKD and the power struggle at that time was going on...so GMH's certificates could have come from school's that the KTA either did not endorse or didn't know about.

Sweeet. This is so exciting.

Ji-Tae, Chun-Kwon, Tae Baek, and Keumgang!!! I know those forms. They are WTF and Jidokwan forms. They were incorporated into my old system as a "surprise" form for our dan testings. Keumgang is my favorite, I have to say. If you look at the pattern that it makes it makes like a T shape. And on the top line of the T, (on the endpoints on that top line) there are | going down. LOL . Itas hard to explain. its one of these things [ ...There we go. A braquet. thats the top of the T. But ANYWAYS. I do know the form. It is starting to make more sense now. I saw the patch. :erg: VERY INTERESTING!!! Im guessing that would also be a "branch" to look into. SWEET!!!. Well, Im working on the timeline I have so far. Like I said before I am not sure when I will be able to post it because I am going to be SUPER busy this week. I got finals this week and I plan on traveling at the end of the week. And I gotta study.

:nuke: UGH!!! And when you get the info on the testing dates and certificates and stuff you can email me. I check my email no less than twice a day. So you can email me there. Or which ever you prefer. Well I better get going. CYA

 

[YounWha]

Boricua -

If you train in the Ozarks I just found out Master Katie and Zack have copies of some of GMH's certificates. Can you drop by there and take some digital photos of at least write down what they say?

 

[terryl965]

Boricua -

If you train in the Ozarks I just found out Master Katie and Zack have copies of some of GMH's certificates. Can you drop by there and take some digital photos of at least write down what they say?

I would like to see them myself my interest is jst killing me now. This has brought up some interest in me as to all these questions.

 

[boricua581]

Boricua -

If you train in the Ozarks I just found out Master Katie and Zack have copies of some of GMH's certificates. Can you drop by there and take some digital photos of at least write down what they say?

I would take a picture, but I dont have a camera that connects to the computer. I will see if I can drop in, beacuse I have been out for a while

Ive been trying to concentrate on school. But I there is somebody that I could talk to that can help me. I also have another idea. I was also thinking about asking on the YW forum on the main association website. Because even the masters look at that on a regular basis. That sounds pretty good too. Ill let you know what I come up with.

 

[Master K]

My research has indicated that it is possible to have an instructor certificate from the KTA in 1974 from Kim Un Yong. Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance.

By the way, please keep us posted of your progress with the lineage. Good luck in your quest.

 

[YounWha]

Boricua -

I would wait to ask questions on the Youn Wha web site. I don't want to stir up things for everyone in our association right now - we are trying to keep things behind the scenes until we figure everything out and ask GMH. I don't want everyone going up to GMH and asking questions...he may get upset.
Basically we need the masters to ask him directly out of respect.

Master K -

Thanks for the research - my findings state the same thing. I have got a "theory" booklet made but am waiting for confirmation from GMH.

 

[Laurentkd]

I am a little confused. If the Grandmaster that you are trying to make this timeline for is still living, why don't you just ask him (or ask someone to ask him) these questions? Is this a project you are doing individually for your own knowledge?

 

[YounWha]

I am a little confused. If the Grandmaster that you are trying to make this timeline for is still living, why don't you just ask him (or ask someone to ask him) these questions? Is this a project you are doing individually for your own knowledge?

He is still alive - but I have been told that korean's are private in nature and that if I just started asking him questions he may take it as I doubt him and think he is lying. The master's in Dallas will be formally taking him out to eat and interviewing him sometime in the future.

I am just gathering info and questions to give to the master's so they can ask him in a respectful way. Also his english is poor and there is a possible mistranslation so we are trying to cover all the bases.
Also GMH doesn't care about his past - but we need that information when he passes away or we may never know.

 

[YounWha]

회장 한 만 회

Can anyone translate this - it's on my certificate but I am coming up with something crazy.

"Chairman of 1 million times"

 

[YounWha]

I got it now - the spacing of the hanguls will kill you...

회장한만회

Chairman Han Man Hee