This just in...the mine collapse was Bush's fault, too!!!

[Xequat]

1)I hope I have not blamed Bush in this thread for the explosion in the mine.

2)However, I would also say it is in very poor taste to get up on that soap box a day or two after twelve hardworking citizens died.

3)For the moment, let's assume that Randi Rhodes did make the statement that "President Bush is personally responsible for those twelve lost lives" ..... I would point you to one of the opening chapters of 'Rush Limbaugh is a Big, Fat Idiot and Other Observations' ... Written by some 'Franklin' guy, I think. .... In that book, the author says it would be unfair to quote the Radio Personality from live radio, cuz, good ole Rush might be in a groove .... without time to stop for a candy-bar, lowering his blood sugar to the point he says something crazy .... It happens. (Hell, we use that technique against O'Reilly all the time). In that book, the author turns to Mr. Limbaughs written work .... which has the benefit of being fact-not-checked before publication. .... Maybe Randi Rhodes was in a similar zone, just needing a Snickers. Who know?

1) I don't think you have.

2) That's exactly my point, but you put it a lot more succinctly than I have thus far.

3) Hey, could be. I just know I listened to her as a credible source for opinioins from the left, but I lost a lot of respect for her when I heard that show. Hell, I'm diabetic, maybe I needed a Snickers and was reading into it too much, huh. OK, I doubt, but like you said, who knows?

 

[jdinca]

I can imagine Randi Rhodes talking about the connections between the Bush Administration and the Mining Companies. I can imagine her making statements about deregulation of the industry leading to unsafe work environments. Those topics of discussion, which can be tied to Bush, I think is not a hard stretch to make.

I wonder where Sen. Robert Byrd stands on the mining regulations? That's a serious question, btw.



"Knucklehead with a computer"

 

[michaeledward]

I wonder where Sen. Robert Byrd stands on the mining regulations? That's a serious question, btw.

http://www.redefiningprogress.org/programs/sustainableeconomy/legislation/s60.htm

Senator Byrd introduced this bill a few years back. I don't know if it was signed into law. This bill was designed to encourage coal develoment and 'clean coal' - a wonderful political term, eh?

Here's a nice article, but I think the dates are mixed up.

http://www.wvculture.org/history/education/safetyacademy04.html

"Our coal deposits in American will meet our energy needs for several centuries. It is obvious the future of coal is bright, but mining the coal requires the labor of men."
"The men who work in the mines must be willing to live with the stark realities of life, Thousands of miners are injured and scores lose their lives in this industry. This means the deaths of fathers and husbands."
"It is for this reason, that I began some years ago to work for the establishment of this mine health and safety academy through my position as chairman of the Subcommittee for Interior Appropriations. This unique and magnificent facility is something that will not only help save lives, but it will reassure the families of the men who work in the mines." "Miners from all over the world, will be coming to Beckley in an attempt to cut down on the injuries and deaths that have so long tainted the miners' lives."

 

[jdinca]

Sounds like he's trying to take the middle road. Increased production equals increased revenues for his state equals re-election. "Mine Safety Academy" means he's concerned about miner safety but wants to accomplish it without increased regulation.

Interesting Knight-Ridder article today on this very subject. The upside? Since 2001, citations and number of fines are up, mining accidents are down. The downside? Less follow up and much smaller fines. Basically, a mixed bag.

 

[sgtmac_46]

A better question would be why were you listening to Air America?

Heck, by listening to Air America, he doubled their ratings. Al Franken will probably send him a signed copy of his new book 'I'm good enough, i'm smart enough....doggone it why won't anyone listen to my radio show?'

Randi Rhodes is more the leftist Michael Savage, for the record.

Al Franken in the lefts Rush Limbaugh. One's a 'Big fat idiot' and the other is a 'Buck-toothed Moron' as the titles of various books proclaim.

An interesting aside to Left versus Right wing radio, they both kind of parallel their political ideologies. Rightwing radio makes loads of money....Leftwing radio survives off subsidies.

 

[Fluffy]

Why aren't you listening to Air America?

It's a one sided argument - on the air. Might as well be listening to NPR, they're left, but at least they have debate.

 

[FearlessFreep]

I would closer put Randi Rhodes to Michael Savage then Rush Limbaugh in there seeming vitroilic disdain for anything that has a smell of 'the other side'.

I really think Ed Shultz wants to be the left's version of Rush Limbaugh

 

[arnisador]

I would closer put Randi Rhodes to Michael Savage

I'll stick with Randy "Macho Man" Savage, I think.

 

[jdinca]

Another article today on the mine tragedy. The government and the mine company are in a no win situation. First it was the governments fault for not enforcing regulations and the mine company for not complying with the regulations, now the mine company is being faulted for not getting into the mine fast enough and the mine company is saying it's because the government regulations prevented them from going in sooner.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Another article today on the mine tragedy. The government and the mine company are in a no win situation. First it was the governments fault for not enforcing regulations and the mine company for not complying with the regulations, now the mine company is being faulted for not getting into the mine fast enough and the mine company is saying it's because the government regulations prevented them from going in sooner.

Well, in that circumstance the fault is that of the mine company. If a law exist, you have a responsibility to follow it. Saying 'No one was enforcing it at the time' is not a defense if something bad happens as a result of your violation. It's like saying 'So what I was speeding, there wasn't a cop there at the time'.

 

[jdinca]

Well, in that circumstance the fault is that of the mine company. If a law exist, you have a responsibility to follow it. Saying 'No one was enforcing it at the time' is not a defense if something bad happens as a result of your violation. It's like saying 'So what I was speeding, there wasn't a cop there at the time'.

There's no proof, yet, that any of the violations led to the accident, or exacerbated the severity. If it turns out they did, then throw the book at them, hard. Then pick up the book and beat them with it. If not, follow up and make sure the fix the violations and take lessons from the tragedy to make mines safer in the future.

On the second point, the mine company and the public safety personnel followed confined space/hazardous environment rescue procedures put in place by OSHA. The purpose of these is to prevent rescuers from becoming victims and part of the emergency. There's a long history of this happening by rescuers rushing in. The downside is that it takes longer to get to the victims. The understandably emotional reaction to this delay is to blame people for not getting in faster because it might have made a difference. It also might have made this tragedy even more severe than it was.

 

[sgtmac_46]

There's no proof, yet, that any of the violations led to the accident, or exacerbated the severity. If it turns out they did, then throw the book at them, hard. Then pick up the book and beat them with it. If not, follow up and make sure the fix the violations and take lessons from the tragedy to make mines safer in the future.

No, I didn't mean to imply that they were guilty of anything. However, if they are, it is their fault, and theirs alone.

On the second point, the mine company and the public safety personnel followed confined space/hazardous environment rescue procedures put in place by OSHA. The purpose of these is to prevent rescuers from becoming victims and part of the emergency. There's a long history of this happening by rescuers rushing in. The downside is that it takes longer to get to the victims. The understandably emotional reaction to this delay is to blame people for not getting in faster because it might have made a difference. It also might have made this tragedy even more severe than it was.

The Lay person rarely understands the complexity of these situations. The more ignorant they are of what really occurs, the more they like to criticize. Nothing new there.

 

[jdinca]

No, I didn't mean to imply that they were guilty of anything. However, if they are, it is their fault, and theirs alone.

The Lay person rarely understands the complexity of these situations. The more ignorant they are of what really occurs, the more they like to criticize. Nothing new there.

I'm in complete agreement with you. On the second point, even if the person has an understanding of the situation, the overwhelming emotions can prevent rational thought. A minor example, we went to a child last week who had cut his chin on a glass that broke when he went to hug his mother, who happened to be holding the glass. Not a pretty laceration but relatively minor with some bleeding. We calmed them down, threw a couple of bandaids on the cut and sent them off to the ER for a few stitches. The childs dad was physician.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I'm in complete agreement with you. On the second point, even if the person has an understanding of the situation, the overwhelming emotions can prevent rational thought. A minor example, we went to a child last week who had cut his chin on a glass that broke when he went to hug his mother, who happened to be holding the glass. Not a pretty laceration but relatively minor with some bleeding. We calmed them down, threw a couple of bandaids on the cut and sent them off to the ER for a few stitches. The childs dad was physician.

True, it's different when people have an emotional investment in the situation. It becomes hard to detach themselves and judge objectively. Be that as it may, however, emotional detachment is necessary when examining these situations.