RTKDCMB
Senior Master
They are not self defense situations until you get into them.
This forum I read in the link provided made my head hurt.
- Thread starter Ironbear24
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Koshiki
Brown Belt
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Well, I can agree that I would rather elbow someone in the head than punch them. A lot of that has to do with range, in my preferred range (quite close), straight punches to the head become tricky, but some of it is big-bone, little-bone thinking.
Where I do think the overall gist of the first post from the other forum has validity is in "self-defense" courses. You know the once a week for two hours, total of four classes self-defense courses where they teach you physical "self-defense techniques." If one must teach such a course, I think it's best to keep the head-punching to a minimum. I mean, with no training or idea of what you're doing, it is pretty easy to hurt your hand that way, compared to an elbow.
Poorly-formed, badly-aimed fist crashing clumsily into a forehead, versus poorly-formed, badly aimed elbow hitting a forehead? Yeah, the elbow is probably better. My point being, however "interesting" and misinformed these guys may be in general, there is an element of truth, especially outside of a MA context, to the concept of "elbows over fists."
Where I do think the overall gist of the first post from the other forum has validity is in "self-defense" courses. You know the once a week for two hours, total of four classes self-defense courses where they teach you physical "self-defense techniques." If one must teach such a course, I think it's best to keep the head-punching to a minimum. I mean, with no training or idea of what you're doing, it is pretty easy to hurt your hand that way, compared to an elbow.
Poorly-formed, badly-aimed fist crashing clumsily into a forehead, versus poorly-formed, badly aimed elbow hitting a forehead? Yeah, the elbow is probably better. My point being, however "interesting" and misinformed these guys may be in general, there is an element of truth, especially outside of a MA context, to the concept of "elbows over fists."
Koshiki
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For those who didn't read the other thread, I've collected a few of my favorites, in the hopes that we can share in the knowledge of others, and thus increase our own potential...
"Excessive, high-pitched noise can disorient aggressors. Infrasound devices are tools of mob control for many law enforcers worldwide. And, of course, hand-to-hand martial artists use shrieks as well for precisely this reason."
"The most powerful personal weapon you have is the knee."
(regarding 'conditioning/hardening') "He can barely zip up his pants. I've watched him zip up in restaurant bathrooms. It's a sad spectacle. He can't type. He wears cowboy boots and velcro sneakers because he can't tie shoelaces."
"You have to be careful even with palm heel strikes too! The average fit male can overdo a strike and break a wrist easily enough."
"Also, even in ancient times one would think that if fists were effective weapons, that they would have been developed through trial and error, but instead we see more and more advanced versions of walking sticks, fighting staves, clubs, knives, spears, swords, polearms, and finally grenades, firearms, rocket launchers, ballistic and cruise missiles, satellites, fighter jets and high powered lasers." ...Ok, screw martial arts, let's just go get some high-powered lasers to stow away in our pockets...
"...a rolled up magazine..." Wait, I will fight you, but first allow me to select and tightly roll this magazine...
"The body has a sophisticated mechanism designed to prevent that--it essentially puts a subconscious "governor" on the triceps so you don't/"can't" punch with more force than your wrist can safely transfer." Cool, learn something everyday...
" A talented thumbnail can be a fearsome weapon if it's used right."
"Great technique comes from evil intentions."
"GJJ is the basically a street-fighting and self-defense form of BJJ."
"The only time a fencer has to defend is when he's up against another fencer. If he isn't, he pretty much has the ability to attack with absolute impunity." Wait, having a three foot sharpened piece of whippy metal gives you an advantage over NOT having one???
I stopped reading when someone posted an "interesting segment on punching." From Cracked...
"Excessive, high-pitched noise can disorient aggressors. Infrasound devices are tools of mob control for many law enforcers worldwide. And, of course, hand-to-hand martial artists use shrieks as well for precisely this reason."
"The most powerful personal weapon you have is the knee."
(regarding 'conditioning/hardening') "He can barely zip up his pants. I've watched him zip up in restaurant bathrooms. It's a sad spectacle. He can't type. He wears cowboy boots and velcro sneakers because he can't tie shoelaces."
"You have to be careful even with palm heel strikes too! The average fit male can overdo a strike and break a wrist easily enough."
"Also, even in ancient times one would think that if fists were effective weapons, that they would have been developed through trial and error, but instead we see more and more advanced versions of walking sticks, fighting staves, clubs, knives, spears, swords, polearms, and finally grenades, firearms, rocket launchers, ballistic and cruise missiles, satellites, fighter jets and high powered lasers." ...Ok, screw martial arts, let's just go get some high-powered lasers to stow away in our pockets...
"...a rolled up magazine..." Wait, I will fight you, but first allow me to select and tightly roll this magazine...
"The body has a sophisticated mechanism designed to prevent that--it essentially puts a subconscious "governor" on the triceps so you don't/"can't" punch with more force than your wrist can safely transfer." Cool, learn something everyday...
" A talented thumbnail can be a fearsome weapon if it's used right."
"Great technique comes from evil intentions."
"GJJ is the basically a street-fighting and self-defense form of BJJ."
"The only time a fencer has to defend is when he's up against another fencer. If he isn't, he pretty much has the ability to attack with absolute impunity." Wait, having a three foot sharpened piece of whippy metal gives you an advantage over NOT having one???
I stopped reading when someone posted an "interesting segment on punching." From Cracked...
JR 137
Grandmaster
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. I read the whole thread, and there are a very few good points in it. Use a weapon if it's available (and warranted), knees and elbows can be better than punches and kicks (if thrown properly), and the harder the surface/target, the more likely you'll hurt your hand.
Other than that, complete non-sense. Then again, consider the source. If I want advice on which car to buy, I don't take that advice as seriously from guys on an MA forum (there may be a mechanic or two there though); if I want MA advice, I don't ask the mechanics' forum (there may be an MAist or two there though). Just sayin'
Other than that, complete non-sense. Then again, consider the source. If I want advice on which car to buy, I don't take that advice as seriously from guys on an MA forum (there may be a mechanic or two there though); if I want MA advice, I don't ask the mechanics' forum (there may be an MAist or two there though). Just sayin'
Well, that thread was started by a guy claiming to be an experienced MMA coach with a whole stable of professional and amateur fighters working under him.
Admittedly, this claim was almost certainly a complete fabrication, but the average reader wouldn't be expected to recognize that.
drop bear
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Experienced mma coach who can't wrap a guys hands to any standard.
JR 137
Grandmaster
How did I forget that part?
Steve
Mostly Harmless
thats a bit circular. Isn't it? It's not self defense unless it is. Eh?
There's lots of giveaways that the guy isn't genuine, the fact he supposedly pays a boxing cornerman in to wrap MMA fighters hands for a start. It's done completely differently for a start and any good coach will do it as part of his fighter's prep for the fight. Even if he's so busy with all his 'pro fighters' he should still have corners for his fighters. so much wrong with his post anyway.
