The 'stabless' knife comes to England

[CoryKS]

So, you can stab it with your steely knife but you just can't kill the beast?

 

[Tez3]

There's a huge govt. initiative there to reduce knife crime by banning carry of knives. This was called for by the medical community and is in response to that. The knives seen here may not have been procured by the U.K. govt., but overall the initiative is there!

By the way, from a purely engineering point-of-view this seems like a good solution to the perceived problem!

I know little about engineering so can't comment lol! Might be good for schools domestic science classes etc or perhaps prisons? But I suppose someone is at least trying to be constructive.
On the subject of the posts, some on the propospals suggested seem unlikely, there's a huge lack of money around and if I haven't heard of them in police circles i doubt they were ever a serious proposal.
Many communities are calling for the banning of knives and the government has to be seen to be responding to the wishes of the people who live there so it's hard to know what to do for the best.


It seems sometimes that whatever we do over here gets criticised by outsiders, nothing is right in their eyes. I've discussed this so many times on here, I'm tired of it. The OP was yet again trying to make out that the British people are being led by the nose and are too stupid to realise it.
1. We have a knife crime problem here.
2. We are trying various ways to combat this.
3. We are open to suggestions. I am in a position that if you have a serious suggestion I can put it to my powers that be but. . . . .

if all you want to do is sneer then I'm sorry I feel sorry for you.

(this is not addressed to Arnisador btw although I have quoted his post!)

 

[CoryKS]

It seems sometimes that whatever we do over here gets criticised by outsiders, nothing is right in their eyes. I've discussed this so many times on here, I'm tired of it. The OP was yet again trying to make out that the British people are being led by the nose and are too stupid to realise it.

That sounds terrible. I'm sure glad we American don't have that problem. :shrug:

 

[Tez3]

That sounds terrible. I'm sure glad we American don't have that problem. :shrug:

Well I for one don't criticise American laws or policing policies. I don't comment at all on your gun laws either.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

I am in a position that if you have a serious suggestion I can put it to my powers that be but. . . . .

 

[theletch1]

Let's keep the America bashing and UK bashing off the site lest we both derail the thread and generate way more heat than is welcome. Just a polite suggestion.

There is a knife crime problem in the UK. There is a gun crime problem in the US. Banning either will serve nothing more than to dis-arm the honest population. Criminals will, by their very nature, continue to have these weapons.

 

[Sukerkin]

Exactly so, my friend :tup:.

 

[Tez3]

What's being banned here is the carrying of knives and bladed weapons not the ownership of them. there is absolutely no need to go out to the pub carrying a knife nor go to a nightclub with one. There's no reason to walk around the streets with a blade at all.
Btw I haven't bashed America at all if thats was what the insinuation was. I don't comment on things American in that respect.

 

[arnisador]

There is a knife crime problem in the UK. There is a gun crime problem in the US. Banning either will serve nothing more than to dis-arm the honest population. Criminals will, by their very nature, continue to have these weapons.

I mostly agree...but the U.K. gun ban has been pretty effective w.r.t. criminals, hasn't it?

 

[arnisador]

There's no reason to walk around the streets with a blade at all.

I dunno...it's nice to have a self-defense option available! There isn't always a bobby around when you need one. But I certainly agree that too many people who carry them (say, in a bar) are much too apt to use them--their presence can turn an argument into a fight.

Are there legal self-defense weapons a person can carry there? Pepper spray? A kubotan/pocket stick? A taser/stun gun?

 

[Tez3]

I dunno...it's nice to have a self-defense option available! There isn't always a bobby around when you need one. But I certainly agree that too many people who carry them (say, in a bar) are much too apt to use them--their presence can turn an argument into a fight.

Are there legal self-defense weapons a person can carry there? Pepper spray? A kubotan/pocket stick? A taser/stun gun?

The trouble is it's not the adults who are carrying knives it's the youths and it's the youths that are being stabbed. It's not muggings, burglaries or thefts, it's young lads in gangs. You wouldn't need to defend yourself with a knife against being attacked, you're not the target...what we have is children killing children, hence the despair.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/four-arrested-in-kinsella-stabbing-probe-857898.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/merseyside/7684077.stm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/youth-killings-this-is-london-860863.htmlhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/oct/21/stab-knife-everton-liverpool

 

[Deaf Smith]

And Deaf when are you going to realise "England" isn't the UK? perhaps I should start saying Texas when I mean the USA lol!

Tez,

Texas, unlike the rest of the United States, once was a country in it's own right. Texas is what the rest of the USA wishes it could be!

Ok, I'll say UK from now own.

Knife situation? Son, a knife can be made out of just about any piece of metal. Knives have been here since the stone age flint knives. It ain't going away with silly 'anti-stab' knives. Even without metal, they would make them out of bone or flint or any flat rock.

What's being banned here is the carrying of knives and bladed weapons not the ownership of them. there is absolutely no need to go out to the pub carrying a knife nor go to a nightclub with one. There's no reason to walk around the streets with a blade at all.

And there is where we disagree. The right to defend yourself cannot be exercised if you don't have the means to defend yourself. Not everyone is a H2H expert. Not everyone is strong. Not everyone can defeat a pack of robbers by themselves (in fact, few can.) Not everyone can defend themselves against those with weapons they brought (illegally or legally.)

And that is why the right to self defense means you have the right to the MEANS of self defense.

Deaf

 

[Amazon]

Changing any item so that it's less effective as a weapon would only make it a LESS attractive to me, as a buyer.

Personally, I would prefer to have as many things as possible at my disposal to use as weapons in the event that I need to defend myself. Any time a home invasion scenario has crossed my mind, the first weapon I picture going for is a moderate sized kitchen knife. I would never take that away from myself.

If I don't want my kids getting their hands on them, I'll take steps to reasonably secure the items, as any responsible parent should.

 

[Amazon]

A dull knife will still cut it just means you have to push harder down.

A pointy thing still goes thru something you just might have to push harder.

If it can cut veggies it should have problem going thru human skin.

I am sure there will be plenty of people trying it out on others.

I used to carry a self defense knife and the funny thing is, they recommend you keep it somewhat dull. It seems the general advice is to slash with a somewhat dull knife, and run.

Stabbing or slashing with a sharp knife supposedly doesn't hurt as much and, thus, doesn't slow the attacker as quickly.

 

[David43515]

What's being banned here is the carrying of knives and bladed weapons not the ownership of them. there is absolutely no need to go out to the pub carrying a knife nor go to a nightclub with one. There's no reason to walk around the streets with a blade at all.
Btw I haven't bashed America at all if thats was what the insinuation was. I don't comment on things American in that respect.

I have to disagree with you. A knife is the single most basic tool in the history of mankind. Everyone here has been commenting on knives as self-defense items, and I`ll admit that`s one reason I carry mine. But what about thier use as a simple tool.

I carry a pocket knife every day. I use it as a letter opener. I open boxes with it. I cut up tape, string,fruit, bread, cheese,etc. I use it to scrape, pry, dig, etc. When I worked in a bar, the bartender occationally borrowed it to cut lemons and limes because he knew I kept it much sharper than anything in the kitchen. At a wedding I recently atended I used it to trim back and arbor so the photographer could get a better picture, to trim a loose thread from my wife`s dress, and to remove a large splinter from the dancefloor that threatened to snag the ladies` gowns. (When one guest asked in a very beligerant tone why I was carrying "a weapon" at the wedding, I pointed out that the streak knives all the guests were using to enjoy thier meals were much larger than my pocket knife.) Last summer on a day trip to an amusement park I helped someone with car trouble by cutting off the split end of a hose so they could reattach it and be on thier way.

If banning objects changed people`s behavior, then we could cure obesity by restricting forks. Just because some people aren`t teaching thier kids morality and repsonsability does`t mean all people should be punished for things they haven`t done.

 

[Monadnock]

Why doesn't England just ban anything that isn't NERF ?

NERF knives...
NERF scissors...
NERF screwdriver....

I think I'm going to call my stock broker. Might want to get in on this one early...

 

[thardey]

I don't get what the big deal is . . .
The "stabless" knife has been around for generations -- It's called a "straight razor."

And we all know how ineffective those are for use in crime, particularly "crimes of passion."

BTW, Deaf, unless I've got my wires crossed, I think Tez was saying that England is to the UK, like Texas is to America. So if you're talking about something "England" did, it doesn't neccessarily apply to other parts of the "United Kingdom" like Ireland or Wales.

 

[Tez3]

Guys, most of you are still missing the point here. We aren't talking self defence here, we aren't talking about defending your loved ones in a home invasion. We aren't talking about you at all.
We are talking about the children here who carrying knives every day and kill other children with them.
Thats the problem we have here, it isn't a self defence issue, it's not a civil rights issue, it's about a specific problem we have here with young people and knives.
Please can you grasp the idea that we aren't talking about reasonable peole being prepared to defend themseves? This is the murder of our children by other children.

 

[Tez3]

We aren't talking about children from 'bad' backgrounds necessarily, we have teenagers caught up in gangs and the gang culture through no fault of the parents. We have children who don't belong to gangs carrying knives because the gang members do and they need to protect themselves. It's a vicious circle they are stuck in.
The police aren't stopping and searching people going about their everyday business so carrying pocket knives, fishing knives, cooks knives etc is no problem, it's gangs of teenagers that are the target not the public. The gangs are a danger to others and themselves. I can't impress on you enough how much of a problem this is in the inner cities, it's not a minority any more it's a fairly large proportion of inner city kids.In the first six months of 2008 19 teenagers were stabbed to death in London alone.

http://www.stevereed.org.uk/?PageId=24547c62-d951-7354-4de3-dac243d03bfc

The problem is a huge political hot potato with nobody knowing what to do for the best.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/jul/13/knifecrime.ukcrime

I tend to agree that we need social conditions to be changed before we see a reduction in knife crime among teenagers. Curiously though knife crime as a whole has gone down though the media still make out that we a crime ridden society when we are not.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

It is a very strange thing Tez. Do you think there is a demographic issue?