The Sir Sandwich - "Sir, yes Sir!

[granfire]

Guess it's a Southern Thang then, to call everybody Sir/Ma'am.

So I guess should I travel to the UK again at any time, I'll be the turd the in the punch bowl, siring everybody. :lol:

 

[crushing]

On the other hand, in the Marine Corps, we do not abbreviate most ranks. A sergeant is not 'sarge' for example. That's Army talk. And if a person is a 'Staff Sergeant,' we call him or her that, not 'Sergeant'. Accepted familiar terms exist, however. Gunnery Sergeants can be referred to as 'Gunny' by other Marines, and a Master Sergeant can be called 'Top'. One can try using the term 'Master Guns' to refer to a Master Gunnery Sergeant, but most lower ranks would probably not dare.

I think 'sarge' is TV/Movie Army talk. I know I didn't dare address a sergeant as sarge.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I think 'sarge' is TV/Movie Army talk. I know I didn't dare address a sergeant as sarge.

I heard it a lot from Army guys when I was on active duty in the Marines. Perhaps it has changed since then. I also recall hearing every rank of Sergeant called "Sergeant," including Staff Sergeant, Sergeant First Class, etc. We would not ever call a Staff Sergeant by just "Sergeant." Even our officers don't do that to the enlisted ranks, they also use the full rank when addressing them.

 

[Tez3]

I heard it a lot from Army guys when I was on active duty in the Marines. Perhaps it has changed since then. I also recall hearing every rank of Sergeant called "Sergeant," including Staff Sergeant, Sergeant First Class, etc. We would not ever call a Staff Sergeant by just "Sergeant." Even our officers don't do that to the enlisted ranks, they also use the full rank when addressing them.

They've probably picked it up from our guys, it's a long standing thing going back well to when there was first sergeants in the 16th century. Perfectly correct to use it. Staff Sergeants are 'Staff' or Staffie', Cpls and L/Cpls are both 'corporals, execpt in the Guards regiments where they are Lance Sgts. as Queen Victoria didn't like her men to be called corporals which means servants she said.
We aren't as formal as it seems the US is, our Royal Marine Commandos are a very tight knit unit so are just as likely to call each other by their first names or more likely nicknames, usually rude ones. Rank is less of an issue in the RMs and the SAS. It's informal in a elitist way, in that only the guys can be like that among themselves, it's less officer and enlisted men more like teams with each respected for their expertise. Most army regiments are similiar, they are often all related to each other and/or married into each others families, many are born and grow up in the regiment so familiarity is literal. If they are related to the other soldiers they probably went to school with them, each regiment recruits from specific areas. It does get a little incestuous at times but in terms of fighting abilities you can't beat the literal band of brothers...cousins, uncles, fathers and eve grandfathers!

 

[Bill Mattocks]

They've probably picked it up from our guys, it's a long standing thing going back well to when there was first sergeants in the 16th century. Perfectly correct to use it. Staff Sergeants are 'Staff' or Staffie', Cpls and L/Cpls are both 'corporals, execpt in the Guards regiments where they are Lance Sgts. as Queen Victoria didn't like her men to be called corporals which means servants she said.
We aren't as formal as it seems the US is, our Royal Marine Commandos are a very tight knit unit so are just as likely to call each other by their first names or more likely nicknames, usually rude ones. Rank is less of an issue in the RMs and the SAS. It's informal in a elitist way, in that only the guys can be like that among themselves, it's less officer and enlisted men more like teams with each respected for their expertise. Most army regiments are similiar, they are often all related to each other and/or married into each others families, many are born and grow up in the regiment so familiarity is literal. If they are related to the other soldiers they probably went to school with them, each regiment recruits from specific areas. It does get a little incestuous at times but in terms of fighting abilities you can't beat the literal band of brothers...cousins, uncles, fathers and eve grandfathers!

Inside a unit, we tended to call each other by name, usually last name or nickname. There are many whose first names I never knew. But that's in a small unit setting, and generally between enlisted troops below the rank of Staff Sergeant.

 

[Tez3]

I think that the British regimental system is very different from the American system, it works well here as our army is considerably smaller, I wouldn't say everyone knows everyone else in the army lol but it's close. I don't know if it's the same in the American armed forces but the rule is that in sport there is no rank, in team games such as football, rugby, cricket, the best player for the job is the captain regardless of what rank they hold, coaches, referees etc can do that whatever rank. In our martial arts club, it's first names only, no rank at all so no one gets called sir at all.

 

[Steve]

Well, for what it's worth, in the USAF, we never called anyone "Sarge" but a Sergeant was "Sergeant" regardless of rank, whether that was Staff Sergeant, Tech Sergeant, or Master Sergeant.

Anyway... BJJ is simple. Coach or by their first name. If the particular black belt is from Brazil, we will often say "Professor" as opposed to "Coach" out of respect, because that's how you say "Coach" in Portuguese, although I've never heard any BJJ Black Belt get uptight over being called "Coach."

 

[eliteguardian]

My Master is less strict now, but when I joined up he expected to be bowed to and called Sir (Or in the case of a female Ma'am or Madame) However our Grandmaster Chong Lee expects us to respond with master (Ex: Yes Master!) My master is less strict about the Sir thing now but I didn't forget my original training and I still call every Black belt my rank and higher Sir or Madame.

 

[Sukerkin]

Guess it's a Southern Thang then, to call everybody Sir/Ma'am.

So I guess should I travel to the UK again at any time, I'll be the turd the in the punch bowl, siring everybody. :lol:

:chuckles: We can do so together, dear lady. For, odd as it may sound, I tend to talk in as courteous and formal a way as I type ... and, thankfully, it's infectious too, at least amongst those old enough to have a rudimentary sense of politeness (there is no saving teenagers sad to say, tho' they do improve over time ). Mind you, I have to say, the better I know you, the less genteel I become - if I insult you to your face (in an informal setting of course, standards must always apply ) then you know I really like you .

 

[granfire]

:chuckles: We can do so together, dear lady. For, odd as it may sound, I tend to talk in as courteous and formal a way as I type ... and, thankfully, it's infectious too, at least amongst those old enough to have a rudimentary sense of politeness (there is no saving teenagers sad to say, tho' they do improve over time ). Mind you, I have to say, the better I know you, the less genteel I become - if I insult you to your face (in an informal setting of course, standards must always apply ) then you know I really like you .

:lol:

yep, among friends an insult is a sign of love, right!

 

[chrispillertkd]

Guess it's a Southern Thang then, to call everybody Sir/Ma'am.

I don't think it's limited to the south. I'm from the mid-west and always call my instructors Sir and Ma'am (when I'm not using their formal titles such as Master, Sa Hyun, or Sa Bum). I also refer to people who are older than me as "Mr." and "Mrs." and their last name. If it's somebody I don't know I'm quite likely to refer to them as "sir" or "ma'am" (or "miss" if they are young).

Within the ITF there is a focus on etiquette and courtesy. This tends to carry over into non-Taekwon-Do situations for a lot of us. I have no problem with this at all. Putting the tenets into practice in one's daily life is part of being a Taekwon-Doin, IMNSHO. A few years ago one of my instructors asked me if I had ever referred to her by her first name, to which I replied, "No, Ma'am." Treating people courteously, I have found, generally helps interactions with them because it gives them a feeling of being respected and is, on balance, not very costly for me, generally speaking. As Gen. Choi said, "all the years of hard training will be nothing but a waste of time if not accompanied by modesty & propriety which are the very essence of Oriental philosophy."

Then again, I personally know several people who not only don't generalize etiquette in other situations but are incredibly rude to people they talk to even if that person is another Taekwon-Doin. Maybe when the belt comes off the courtesy stops, or something. Most lapses I've seen are simply accidents; not being aware of what is expected in a certain situation or being forgetful. That's no big deal, really. Just opportunity for more practice. But some people really seem to think that once you're off the floor you can be as big a jerk as you want. (And, I guess, you can be. Whether you should be or not is another matter.)

Pax,

Chris

 

[Carol]

I think I've yelled "Sir, yes, sir!" in class before. Not because the teacher insisted upon the "sir sandwich" but because another student yelled it and a bunch of us joined in. Getting a chance to shout and yell for fun can be quite cathartic and "Sir, yes, sir" is easy to say when you are out of breath.

I don't have much issue with it. If the environment was overly controlling, then yeah, I'd have a problem with that. But a lot of boot camp type exercises build team spirit and encourage the student to push themselves....and I think they are a bit more fun than they seem on YouTube.

 

[punisher73]

Probably just a tradition that was passed on that got out of control. Much like everyone going around saying "Osu".

Japanese karate training was set up in a military fashion to prepare young men for service. Many Koreans first learned it in a military setting and also taught it in a military setting. Then add in that the first Americans to learn these arts were US servicemen, and you can see how the military flavor just got passed on and then down the line.

 

[Steve]

My experience has been that most people only use "Sir" when they obviously don't mean it. I know that the few times I've been called "sir" on this forum, for example, it's been when someone's dismissing me. As in, "I'm done discussing this with you. Good day, sir." Or, "With respect, sir... your opinion is flat out wrong and you're an idiot." Of course, I'm paraphrasing somewhat, but that captures the general spirit.

 

[crushing]

I don't use the sir sandwich, but I do address my instructor as sir during class (open face sir sandwich?), particularly when he addresses me specifically and I have a yes or no response. I do it as a matter of respect and certainly hope he doesn't think otherwise.

 

[JWLuiza]

I prefer my original school where respect was shown in actions not by how you address someone. The instructors (as did I when I became one) asked to be called by their first names and we were training too much to worry about titles, etc.

 

[Josh Oakley]

My experience has been that most people only use "Sir" when they obviously don't mean it. I know that the few times I've been called "sir" on this forum, for example, it's been when someone's dismissing me. As in, "I'm done discussing this with you. Good day, sir." Or, "With respect, sir... your opinion is flat out wrong and you're an idiot." Of course, I'm paraphrasing somewhat, but that captures the general spirit.

I SAID GOOD DAY, SIR!

lol

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[Tames D]

Probably just a tradition that was passed on that got out of control. Much like everyone going around saying "Osu".

Japanese karate training was set up in a military fashion to prepare young men for service. Many Koreans first learned it in a military setting and also taught it in a military setting. Then add in that the first Americans to learn these arts were US servicemen, and you can see how the military flavor just got passed on and then down the line.

Yeah, the osu thing is funny. Another thing that is getting old is seeing pics of guys with their pinky and index finger out. I know it's very Hawaiian but still... Enough already.

 

[Steve]

Yeah, the osu thing is funny. Another thing that is getting old is seeing pics of guys with their pinky and index finger out. I know it's very Hawaiian but still... Enough already.

One of the curses of being a middle aged white dude who is neither a striker, a gang member, nor from a pacific island is that I literally have nothing to do with my hands in a pic. As a result, I convulse in a seizure of indecision that makes me look like even more of a dork than I really am.


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[mook jong man]

One of the curses of being a middle aged white dude who is neither a striker, a gang member, nor from a pacific island is that I literally have nothing to do with my hands in a pic. As a result, I convulse in a seizure of indecision that makes me look like even more of a dork than I really am.


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Yes you do , you can do that pose where you stand there with your thumbs tucked into your belt.
That ones quite popular.