The Side Parry

[Gerry Seymour]

Have you ever heard of Dog Brothers? They do full contact fma stuff and its pretty brutal and visceral stuff. They get hit constantly and quickly, and it's all pretty much a blur. There's very little parrying, and the rounds are fast..and these are dudes that actually train at speed for competition.

The issue I see with Dog Brothers and the like (and this is not a fault for DB, just the reality of weapons training) is that there's little penalty for being over-aggressive unless you are seriously outclassed. With actual stabs and cuts, there's a strong incentive to be conservative. In DB, aggression tends to win the day, because there's more punishment for the other guy. If he neatly "stabs" you while you "cut" him hard, there's significantly less penalty (pain) for you than for him.

 

[jobo]

In the video you referenced, there were actually slash attacks, too. The stab approach proved to be more effective, as you'd expect, but ignoring slashes doesn't improve defense.

I agree this probably isn't high percentage stuff against someone with significant skill (relatively speaking). I don't think anything is, when it comes to knives. I see this mostly as "oh crap" moves that can save when you find yourself in the way of the attack.

Its an oh crap move if and only if you happen to be in possession of a Bowie knife, which means it's by no means a unfortunate incident you had no prior warning of, .
There's only two viable defences to a knife attack, which are a) to get out of range and b) to get them first, both of which are depend upon xckusivly on speed and anyone slashing at you ( in range ) is leaving themsekfs wide open to a streaight plunge which is why slash attacks are not popular against someone with a big knife. . The general target for a slash attack is the out stretch hand that holding your knife, but then not big slashes that leave you open,

All if this is easy to prove to yourself with a bit of sparring and plastic knives, remembering, that it's a one touch win, or there no win if you are both dead

 

[Martial D]

The issue I see with Dog Brothers and the like (and this is not a fault for DB, just the reality of weapons training) is that there's little penalty for being over-aggressive unless you are seriously outclassed. With actual stabs and cuts, there's a strong incentive to be conservative. In DB, aggression tends to win the day, because there's more punishment for the other guy. If he neatly "stabs" you while you "cut" him hard, there's significantly less penalty (pain) for you than for him.

I'm not sure I can agree that being conservative is the best strategy in a first hit wins the day type situation.

 

[KPM]

ts an oh crap move if and only if you happen to be in possession of a Bowie knife, which means it's by no means a unfortunate incident you had no prior warning of, .
There's only two viable defences to a knife attack, which are a) to get out of range and b) to get them first, both of which are depend upon xckusivly on speed and anyone slashing at you ( in range ) is leaving themsekfs wide open to a streaight plunge which is why slash attacks are not popular against someone with a big knife. . The general target for a slash attack is the out stretch hand that holding your knife, but then not big slashes that leave you open,



^^^^^ Uh.....the original video was only referring to use of the Bowie Knife. And couldn't "getting them first" be a backhand slash to their attacking limb? Because that is what a side parry really is! Once again....you are just arguing for argument's sake alone.

 

[jobo]

ts an oh crap move if and only if you happen to be in possession of a Bowie knife, which means it's by no means a unfortunate incident you had no prior warning of, .
There's only two viable defences to a knife attack, which are a) to get out of range and b) to get them first, both of which are depend upon xckusivly on speed and anyone slashing at you ( in range ) is leaving themsekfs wide open to a streaight plunge which is why slash attacks are not popular against someone with a big knife. . The general target for a slash attack is the out stretch hand that holding your knife, but then not big slashes that leave you open,



^^^^^ Uh.....the original video was only referring to use of the Bowie Knife. And couldn't "getting them first" be a backhand slash to their attacking limb? Because that is what a side parry really is! Once again....you are just arguing for argument's sake alone.

you could most certainly have stuck him , whilst he was in the backhand position, he had no defence and his knife was pointing away from you, what better position are you hoping for ?

 

[Gweilo]

Ok let's take the warning on voard and drop the personal attacks,

Are you claiming that you have validated them against some objective criteria, if not then there is a strong possibility that they are fantasy, and let's be ckear there's no doubt that there's a lot of fantasy martial arts about,

Your in the UK arnt you ? Come down when the weather gets better and we can have a freindly spar, if you can hit me with one of them systema floppy fish slap punches IL buy you a nice dinner,

Love to, or should I say Mad for it, I am actually in Shropshire in march

 

[Gweilo]

And on the condition we video it and upload it to MT, so everyone else can see the result.got to love you Karate boys

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Its an oh crap move if and only if you happen to be in possession of a Bowie knife, which means it's by no means a unfortunate incident you had no prior warning of, .
There's only two viable defences to a knife attack, which are a) to get out of range and b) to get them first, both of which are depend upon xckusivly on speed and anyone slashing at you ( in range ) is leaving themsekfs wide open to a streaight plunge which is why slash attacks are not popular against someone with a big knife. . The general target for a slash attack is the out stretch hand that holding your knife, but then not big slashes that leave you open,

All if this is easy to prove to yourself with a bit of sparring and plastic knives, remembering, that it's a one touch win, or there no win if you are both dead

So, it seems your main argument has two points in this post:

1) You can only use this if you have a Bowie knife. That's accurate, but useless, since this is a Bowie knife training video.

2) The other guy has to do something less-than-optimal to make this possible. Also accurate and only slightly more useful, since the thing needed is also explicit in the video.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm not sure I can agree that being conservative is the best strategy in a first hit wins the day type situation.

First hit doesn't win. Surviving wins. If you get first hit, but get killed too (or maybe without killing him), it does you no good. In non-lethal competition (dull weapons, etc.), the payoff and penalty for any given type of attack/defense is somewhat altered. If high aggression costs me a match, that's not a big penalty compared to it costing me an arm or my life.

 

[KPM]

you could most certainly have stuck him , whilst he was in the backhand position, he had no defence and his knife was pointing away from you, what better position are you hoping for ?

What the heck are you even talking about? That wasn't the purpose of the video! The purpose of the video was instructional to teach the basics of a very specific technique. You keep taking things out of context and just flat don't understand what I was even trying to show. Either that....or you are still just arguing for the sake of arguing. Well, I'm not going to play your game. Go find someone else to criticize and argue with. Go ask the Koryu Japanese Swordsmanship guys if they've ever actually been in a sword fight and then start telling them how wrong they are about everything!

 

[jobo]

So, it seems your main argument has two points in this post:

1) You can only use this if you have a Bowie knife. That's accurate, but useless, since this is a Bowie knife training video.

2) The other guy has to do something less-than-optimal to make this possible. Also accurate and only slightly more useful, since the thing needed is also explicit in the video.

is it, where in the vid doesn't it say it's only a Bowie knife vid or even mention Bowie knife at all, ? that's just kppm clutching at straws after the horse has bolted

 

[Gerry Seymour]

is it, where in the vid doesn't it say it's only a Bowie knife vid or even mention Bowie knife at all, ? that's just kppm clutching at straws after the horse has bolted

So, if someone is teaching sword techniques, you expect them to say "this only works with a sword"?

 

[Martial D]

First hit doesn't win. Surviving wins. If you get first hit, but get killed too (or maybe without killing him), it does you no good. In non-lethal competition (dull weapons, etc.), the payoff and penalty for any given type of attack/defense is somewhat altered. If high aggression costs me a match, that's not a big penalty compared to it costing me an arm or my life.

How many people do you think keep fighting after getting stabbed? Unless there is pcp involved that's generally all she wrote . Playing defense in a knife fight is suicide.

Do you actually believe this stuff?

Convince me with evidence.

 

[Gweilo]

Urge hmm, Jobo, I haven't heard from you about sparring, or was a moment when your Tena pants leaked?

 

[jobo]

So, if someone is teaching sword techniques, you expect them to say "this only works with a sword"?

but he's not teaching sword, thank God he is teaching knife techniquesthe

 

[jobo]

Urge hmm, Jobo, I haven't heard from you about sparring, or was a moment when your Tena pants leaked?

like I said mate come down to Manchester

 

[Gerry Seymour]

How many people do you think keep fighting after getting stabbed? Unless there is pcp involved that's generally all she wrote . Playing defense in a knife fight is suicide.

Do you actually believe this stuff?

Convince me with evidence.

I'm not talking about them continuing to fight - I'm talking about them getting a hit on the same beat. If I get in and cut you while you stab me, who got whom first isn't very important.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

but he's not teaching sword, thank God he is teaching knife techniquesthe

You're just ignoring your own point, now. That usually means you've run out of anything to work with.

 

[Gweilo]

like I said mate come down to Manchester

Pm me your details and we can arrange it, I will also let you play the theme tune to the last samurai if you want

 

[Gweilo]

I'l up the anti, if you can stop me from fishy systema slapping you for 5 mins, I will buy the meal and the beer, if you fail, I will buy you a few beers to show you there are no hard feelings