Blocks or Parries

[exile]

A lot of what I've been taught, especially the past couple of years, is what is called a block or a parry, really isn't. I've been, to great effect even in a couple of "street" situations, training where the "prep" to the technique deflects the incoming attack and the block or parry is is actually the strike. Makes those preps really useful.

Jeff

Does this mean you train to approach an encounter with your own arms hanging at your sides? I would hope not, they should be up as well. Wow, already most of the way to a parry/block, so the argument of being quicker is gone....

My thoughts: They are not the "be all- end all" but they are very useful. No I'm not lightening quick, yes they work.
As for showing you where they work outside of the dojo, I personally don't cart around a video camera and somebody to run it 24/7, and if I did, I still wouldn't post those types of clips. You still wouldn't believe it anyway.
Can I prove to you they work? Nope.
Do I care? Nope.

As long as you are comfortable with the training and your instructor, that is what matters, not what others you don't know think. But, the other side of the coin is the fact you are not going to convince those of us who kknow they are useful and good otherwise either.

Senin, I want to underscore what Jeff and Scott are saying here and maybe amplify their points a bit, because from what you write I think you have an idea of what a block/parry is which doesn't match up very well with the experience of the other posters on this thread. I can't tell from you profile how much time you've spent in the MAs, what kind of Budo you pursue or what your training experience has been like. But it's pretty clear to anyone who's thought hard about the relationship between MA movements on the one hand (motions of various parts of the body in descriptions of combat techniques) and the actual moves those motions correspond to on the other (actual applications and use of the movements in question) that the names of movements and their actual combat use are quite different. A `block' is virtually never a block, with you just standing there, trying to react fast enough to what some guy is throwing at your head. It's almost always a deflection of a strike that you've already moved out of the way of. In the scenario I described to you very early in this thread, the key to not getting hit is turning 90º to the attackers inside; that is going to be a lot quicker, as a movement, than standing square on to him and just using your arms in an effort to keep the blow from landing. But your goal isn't not getting hit; it's incapacitating your assailant tot he point where he withdraws from the fight (volunarily or not). So you must combine your movement inside with a way of grabbing the initiative, right? And since he's already commited to the punch, once you've made the quick (and largely instinctive) movement to move to his inside by turning your right side to him, you have, relatively speaking, a lot of time to counter his attack so decisively that you can finish him.

Jeff's point about how to break a supposedly defensive move down into parts that show its largely attacking potential comes in here. What he says about the role of the `prep' part—that if you understand it right, it's actually the deflecting component, and the so-called blocking motion is actually the nearly immediate attacking component that the prep sets up—is exactly on target. Karateka like Bill Burgar and Iain Abernethy, and TKDists like Simon O'Neil, have been stressing this for years: in most `blocks' (the name of the movement), the so-called `chambering' part (the name of the submovement) is actually the deflection—with a double knifehand block, for example, once you've turned to the assailant's inside, left hand/arm movement back is the deflection, but the simultaneous right hand/arm back strikes vital points on the assailan't upper arm, triggering a physically instinctive turning of his head and shoulders away from you. Your next movement—the actual `block'—involves your right hand striking his face on the side, and your left hand striking his neck or throat immediately after that. Muchimi tech followups should guide your conversion of the strike into a hair or ear grap, say, with a low hard sidekick to the sideof his knee, damaging the joint, possibly severely, or an hard elbow strike with your right elbow back to his immobilized face, and so on. These are just basic realistic apps of standard karate/TKD `block' interpretations, illustrated in e.g. Burgar's book in detail.

As Scott points out, just having your hands up and your arms in a basic `fence'-type position is most of the `parry' right there. Turning away from a punch is something that you can do a lot quicker than your assailant can throw the punch—even at CQs, look at the difference in the distances involved! If you train for that kind of movement (or the mirror image in response to a grap to one side, where you can quickly and effectively turn to the assailant's outside)—as I would expect you to be doing; this is just Realistic MA Techs 101, no?—your simultaneous deflection/strike sequence will take the steam out of even a very worked-up attacker. You have to train this kind of response, sure, but again, a lot of it is instinctive response. And as Scott also says, lightning-quick speed isn't required. These arts were designed for civilian use against common civilian attacks. Most people not only aren't as quick as Bruce Lee, they never were at any time in history. So how did these arts survive over centuries if they actually demanded that kind of speed?

I think what people are showing in their responses to you is a kind of puzzlement that this kind of very basic technical element in your MA training seems to be... missing. In my TKD school, this is the sort of stuff that green belts learn. Is it that your instructors haven't shown you this way of utilizing technical resources from the MA toolkit?

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Both can work applied correctly.

 

[MJS]

Hi Mike,

I think we might be walking a fine line hear with the parry/blocking thing. I will concede that a boxer may flinch outward when taking a punch, but pretty much he has his arms in and takes the punch on his forearms (if he cannot get out of the way).

And like I said, in a boxing ring, with the fighters wearing padded gloves, the majority of the impact is cushioned by the gloves. Are you honestly saying in a real fight you want to consistantly take shots on the arms?? Good luck dude.

You know, when I first took karate lessons as a kid I was taught "up block, up block, cross block, cross block, down block, down block" plus a few others. Those blocks were actually parries. Mostly useless in real fighting. Why were they taught? Because karate was watered down after WW2. (plus the fact that the samurai used to fight in armor, in which a block might have worked).

Again, you're seriously confusing the parry with a block. A parry is done with the hand, usually open. A block, such as you describe above, is done with the hand usually closed, and the blocking portion is the forearm area. If you want to keep thinking they're useless, thats fine. Apparently you're keeping the blinders on and not looking outside the box.

If a parry works, it is because the defender is incredibly faster than the opponent or pure stupid luck (or it is a school where the fight is choreographed). Please show me where these parries actually work elsewhere.

I disagree. If the hands are up, where they should be, a parry is very easy to execute. As I said earlier, it seems that you have not had the chance to work parries with someone who can show you their effectiveness, so you keep disregarding them. It also seems like you're grasping at straws as well. In your initial post you stated that they were not used in boxing. You were proved wrong. I've told you how they can be used. If you fail to see it, thats out of my control.

So, if I am in a fight, and I can't dodge the hit, and I have to take it somewhere, yeah, the forearms aren't bad. Bone and muscle. Odds are, he will hurt his hands before he hurts my forearms. And, I am not going to stand and take it, there will be retaliation.

Thanks for the discourse.

By doing what you're suggesting, you're seriously putting yourself on the defense. Perhaps you can explain, seeing that you feel you have a better defense, exactly how you do your blocks?

Mike

 

[Danny T]

If that punch movement was not a punch but a thrust with a knife would you "parry" or "block" taking the thrust in the arms or body? Good luck!

Danny T

 

[MJS]

Does this mean you train to approach an encounter with your own arms hanging at your sides? I would hope not, they should be up as well. Wow, already most of the way to a parry/block, so the argument of being quicker is gone.

This is what I said. Apparently he's not seeing it.

Quick question first then on to my thoughts.
Did you start this thread just to argue? You had to have known what the general response would be.

Most likely.

As long as you are comfortable with the training and your instructor, that is what matters, not what others you don't know think. But, the other side of the coin is the fact you are not going to convince those of us who kknow they are useful and good otherwise either.

Well, like I said earlier, alot of it comes down to having the right person to show you something. It always amazes me, how people can view someone else, see them not having success, and assume that they won't either and that the tech. or move in question is totally useless.

 

[jks9199]

Hi Mike,

I think we might be walking a fine line hear with the parry/blocking thing. I will concede that a boxer may flinch outward when taking a punch, but pretty much he has his arms in and takes the punch on his forearms (if he cannot get out of the way).

You know, when I first took karate lessons as a kid I was taught "up block, up block, cross block, cross block, down block, down block" plus a few others. Those blocks were actually parries. Mostly useless in real fighting. Why were they taught? Because karate was watered down after WW2. (plus the fact that the samurai used to fight in armor, in which a block might have worked).

If a parry works, it is because the defender is incredibly faster than the opponent or pure stupid luck (or it is a school where the fight is choreographed). Please show me where these parries actually work elsewhere.

So, if I am in a fight, and I can't dodge the hit, and I have to take it somewhere, yeah, the forearms aren't bad. Bone and muscle. Odds are, he will hurt his hands before he hurts my forearms. And, I am not going to stand and take it, there will be retaliation.

Thanks for the discourse.

How about providing your own definition for a block and parry? I gave one; a block is meeting the attack force on force, with the dual intent to deflect/stop the attack and harm the weapon, while a parry is intended to redirect, not stop, the attack to allow for counterattack. So far, all you've done is say "what you think are blocks are really parries and they don't work." The closest I've seen to a definition is that you seem to suggest that anything that doesn't stop the attack cold, limb on limb, is a parry. I disagree with that; a solid block is likely to deflect the attacking limb, and unbalance your opponent. After all, if it didn't deflect that punch or kick... you'd never be able to lower the block until your opponent gave up!

 

[Flatlander]

If a parry works, it is because the defender is incredibly faster than the opponent or pure stupid luck (or it is a school where the fight is choreographed).

If anything works, it's because the person applying technique is faster/better/etc. Not just the parry....

Which is easier, the parry or the counterpunch? Which is faster, the parry or the counterpunch? Also, who ever suggested that the parry isn't part of the counterpunch?

Perhaps, rather than viewing the parry, or block, or whatever label you want to use, as a stand alone technique, you might consider viewing it as a piece of something else....

Speaking of Bruce Lee, are you familiar with the concept of Lin Sil Die Dar? This is the simultaneous defence and attack. There are a number of techniques that qualify as being Lin Sil Die Dar, and many of them include a parrying element.

Honestly, I just don't care for such blanket statements as "<insert technique here> doesn't work, and therefore is a waste of everyone's time." This is not only a hasty generalization, but also an indication of a lack of research and experience. Anything can work, the appropriate conditions need only be presented.

That said, my position here is that the parry is perhaps the most effective method of not getting hit. Also, I don't think I'd be the guy putting my forearms in the way to block an incoming knife thrust. Reckon I'd be parrying, there..... However, it's tough to parry effectively when one doesn't train the parry because one unjustifiably believes the parry to be of no value....

 

[Senin]

There is a lot to respond to so forgive me for not answering all quesitons.

The most striking (lol) was the point about the knife. That, my friends, is a whole new kettle of fish. And if one is up against a knife attack, he is real danger. Unfortunately, lots of martial arts schools teach this parry-then attack knife defense (which isn't bad because you can't block a knife like you would a punch). But it leads a lot of people to the dangerous misunderstanding that a knife attack can be easily handled.... and it's not something to misled about.

Here is the bottom line..... reaction time. Ofcourse in a fight, you hands will be up and ready. And you will be moving instead of static. When an opponent throws a punch, you have to react (and reaction time is a biggie)............. thus, you have to be faster than his punch. A parry is much large movement then the boxer forearm block. So put simply, he moves, you have to react to his movement, and to parry, you must executed a larger movement (than the forearm block).

I came across this on youtube. It shows the mean of full-speed, full force.

I know how it is. Alot of martial arts schools teach that parrying stuff so they have a real stake in its existance. Rarely works in a real fight. And the training in a dojo is not the real world.

 

[exile]

Here is the bottom line..... reaction time. Ofcourse in a fight, you hands will be up and ready. And you will be moving instead of static. When an opponent throws a punch, you have to react (and reaction time is a biggie)............. thus, you have to be faster than his punch. A parry is much large movement then the boxer forearm block. So put simply, he moves, you have to react to his movement, and to parry, you must executed a larger movement (than the forearm block).

Um... have you actually read any of the preceding posts carefully, Senin? Because if you had, you would have noticed that the point of at least of a couple of them was that following in up

When an opponent throws a punch, you have to react (and reaction time is a biggie)............. thus, you have to be faster than his punch.

with

and to parry, you must executed a larger movement (than the forearm block)

is committing a non sequitor. You have to be faster than his punch, but to avoid his punch, you only need to carry out a relatively small movement to his inside or his outside, and in towards him. From that position, you are relatively speaking in no rush, because your out of the line of his attack, and your parry (= setup for your own attack) requires much less body movement than the original punch does. Repeat: you don't race his punch with your parry; you step out of the way, in toward him, and use the parry to unbalance him, to set up a series of hard strikes, joint locks or partial throws, and then a finishing strike (if your art is striking-based). You don't seem to want to understand this almost routine aspect of MA technique.

Once again: you do not stand there flat-footed and try to race his punch. You can, and should, be well out of the way of his punch at the moment you launch your parry as the first step towards disabling him. There is an enormous current literature on realistic karate/TKD application; if would save you, and everyone else, a great deal of time if you did a little basic investigation of this point before insisting on the necessity of a scenario that no one with a reasonable amount of practical training takes even a little bit seriously.

I know how it is. Alot of martial arts schools teach that parrying stuff so they have a real stake in its existance. Rarely works in a real fight. And the training in a dojo is not the real world.

No, you don't know how it is. Good martial arts schools teach parrying/striking along the lines I indicated because it is precisely this kind of technique that works against untrained but violent aggressors. And the training in a dojo, if it's a good dojo, can get at just the skills you need to develop to defend yourself in the real world.

I'd suggest becoming a little bit more familiar with the enormous work on practical combat applications of MA techs that has been done during the past ten years before you send more posts that make your unfamiliarity with that work so evident...

 

[bydand]

I cannot speak for anybody else here, but I never even hinted that I was talking about training in the dojo as being real world. As for the video you linked to, what do you think his hands being up and into the shoulder when the big guy with the knife takes a "full speed - full force" swipe at him is doing? Checking the material of his shirt? Nope he is parrying the force away in order to gain an opening and a "moment in time" to strike. A parry or block isn't always directed at the other persons hands or feet. I am fully convinced you are here to stir up an argument now. And no you don't have to be faster than the other persons punch even with hands up already. I can move a couple of inches (which is all that is needed to avoid and parry/block) including reaction time, faster than somebody can fill that distance with a swing. Training hall or Dojo lesson speaking there? Nope; bar brawls and street fights speaking there. I can't help thinking this is turning into another dead horse thread. You blindly maintaining they suck and the everybody else knowing they actually work.

Good luck in your training (no sarcasm, but honestly wishing that for you.) Hopefully I'll read some of your other posts later that make a bit of sense, but I'm out of this one before I just get tired of it and ding you for lame arguments.

 

[jks9199]

There is a lot to respond to so forgive me for not answering all quesitons.

The most striking (lol) was the point about the knife. That, my friends, is a whole new kettle of fish. And if one is up against a knife attack, he is real danger. Unfortunately, lots of martial arts schools teach this parry-then attack knife defense (which isn't bad because you can't block a knife like you would a punch). But it leads a lot of people to the dangerous misunderstanding that a knife attack can be easily handled.... and it's not something to misled about.

Here is the bottom line..... reaction time. Ofcourse in a fight, you hands will be up and ready. And you will be moving instead of static. When an opponent throws a punch, you have to react (and reaction time is a biggie)............. thus, you have to be faster than his punch. A parry is much large movement then the boxer forearm block. So put simply, he moves, you have to react to his movement, and to parry, you must executed a larger movement (than the forearm block).

I came across this on youtube. It shows the mean of full-speed, full force.

I know how it is. Alot of martial arts schools teach that parrying stuff so they have a real stake in its existance. Rarely works in a real fight. And the training in a dojo is not the real world.

Ok... First... You don't think a fist is "real danger?!":erg: I could dig up some statistics about people beaten to death by unarmed assailants who, I guess, weren't in "real danger." ANYBODY attacking you with ANYTHING is a REAL danger. Any other mentality is inviting injury -- if you're lucky.

You want to talk about reaction time? With rare exceptions, most of us don't have the reaction time to go from what Cooper called "condition white" (unalert & unaware) to "red" (engaged in combat) and successfully defend themselves from the initial attack -- especially since a real attacker is going to be optimizing surprise. They're going to look for the opportunity to catch you in condition white, not in orange or even red. They want you to jump from white to black (panic).

How do you solve that problem? PRACTICE. In a realistic manner, at realistic speeds, designed to ingrain correct reactions in your reflexes instead of conscious thought.

How is a parry going to work for real? You'll perceive the attack, your body will move, and all those hours of dedicated practice will draw it out of your muscles. You likely won't realize what's happening. As Bruce Lee once said ... "IT" happens.

You're making claims and assumptions about reality, and about training... Maybe you need to back your authority up with something about yourself, not just quoting or misquoting your instructor. I'm a cop. I've been there, done that, and had people try to do it to me. I've been lucky; nobody's tried to knife me or shoot me. But I've had more than a few fight me. I've gone hands on for real... And I don't consider myself an "expert." I can name at least a dozen people without trying that are more skilled and more experienced than I am. Beyond that... I've boxed. I've kickboxed. I've even wrestled.

 

[Senin]

Ok... First... You don't think a fist is "real danger?!":erg: I could dig up some statistics about people beaten to death by unarmed assailants who, I guess, weren't in "real danger." ANYBODY attacking you with ANYTHING is a REAL danger. Any other mentality is inviting injury -- if you're lucky.

You want to talk about reaction time? With rare exceptions, most of us don't have the reaction time to go from what Cooper called "condition white" (unalert & unaware) to "red" (engaged in combat) and successfully defend themselves from the initial attack -- especially since a real attacker is going to be optimizing surprise. They're going to look for the opportunity to catch you in condition white, not in orange or even red. They want you to jump from white to black (panic).

How do you solve that problem? PRACTICE. In a realistic manner, at realistic speeds, designed to ingrain correct reactions in your reflexes instead of conscious thought.

How is a parry going to work for real? You'll perceive the attack, your body will move, and all those hours of dedicated practice will draw it out of your muscles. You likely won't realize what's happening. As Bruce Lee once said ... "IT" happens.

You're making claims and assumptions about reality, and about training... Maybe you need to back your authority up with something about yourself, not just quoting or misquoting your instructor. I'm a cop. I've been there, done that, and had people try to do it to me. I've been lucky; nobody's tried to knife me or shoot me. But I've had more than a few fight me. I've gone hands on for real... And I don't consider myself an "expert." I can name at least a dozen people without trying that are more skilled and more experienced than I am. Beyond that... I've boxed. I've kickboxed. I've even wrestled.

Fine, then you know. I have been there too. And a lot of it is about reaction time. He strikes (and let me tell ya, a jab could be 12" away or shorter), then your brain has to tell ya, hey a punch is coming, then your brain has to say "defense" (hopefully you have drilled enough so your movement is automatic, if not you are really in crap), then you have to actually move. Some of you guys (dojo martial artists) are telling me parrying is a vialble option. Get real. Move, duck cover, throw up your arm for defense if you can, and take offense.... punch and kick....... and it's on.

So, you have proven my point............ most of us just don't have the reaction time. That's why boxing matches and MMA fights don't look like it does in the dojo. You will seldom fing a parry. Don't let these stripmall dojos fool ya, a real fight aint what it is on the mat.

By the way, did I say a fist wasn't a real danger. But, I would rather be attacked by fists than a knife. Or, somebody who knew what he was doing and a knuckle to the throat.

To you others, go ahead and parry, parry, parry. I wish I find you guys in my next fight.

 

[exile]

Folks, I strongly suggest that you don't bother, at this point. Why throw good money after bad?

 

[MJS]

There is a lot to respond to so forgive me for not answering all quesitons.

The most striking (lol) was the point about the knife. That, my friends, is a whole new kettle of fish. And if one is up against a knife attack, he is real danger. Unfortunately, lots of martial arts schools teach this parry-then attack knife defense (which isn't bad because you can't block a knife like you would a punch). But it leads a lot of people to the dangerous misunderstanding that a knife attack can be easily handled.... and it's not something to misled about.

Here is the bottom line..... reaction time. Ofcourse in a fight, you hands will be up and ready. And you will be moving instead of static. When an opponent throws a punch, you have to react (and reaction time is a biggie)............. thus, you have to be faster than his punch. A parry is much large movement then the boxer forearm block. So put simply, he moves, you have to react to his movement, and to parry, you must executed a larger movement (than the forearm block).

I came across this on youtube. It shows the mean of full-speed, full force.

I know how it is. Alot of martial arts schools teach that parrying stuff so they have a real stake in its existance. Rarely works in a real fight. And the training in a dojo is not the real world.

I've seen this clip before. Rich teaches some very good stuff. There is actually a pretty article on him in the Mar. 07 issue of Black Belt. Anyway...back to the topic.

If you notice in the clip, the Krav Maga guys have their standard knife defense, which as Rich showed, was staying pretty stationary, pushing their butt out, so it looks as if they're leaning and off balance. Now, watch how Rich moved right in. Big difference right? You state that a parry is a big movement. I disagree. A parry, just like a block, only has to move far enough to redirect the incoming strike. Overblocking can do more harm than good. As we've said countless times already, if the hands are already up, which I'd imagine they would be, a parry is a simple quick move.

You also seem to be under this misunderstanding that the person doing the block or parry is going to be stationary. Wrong! When I parry, I'm also moving. Watch a boxer, as you like to point out. Many times, they're just standing there, taking the shots. This is the same as what the KM guy was doing when he was doing his knife defense. What did Rich do? He moved!

This..

I know how it is. Alot of martial arts schools teach that parrying stuff so they have a real stake in its existance. Rarely works in a real fight. And the training in a dojo is not the real world

brings up something else. You know how it is?? Really? So, like I asked before, you've seen every MA school in the world? You've seen how everyone trains? What you've seen should not be the basis for what everyone is doing, yet, you're here, making comments like that??

There have been many times that I've talked with people and had the same attitude as you. That wont work, blah, blah, blah. Funny how 9 times out of 10, I was proved wrong. Ever stop to think that the first time you saw something, it was shown poorly? What about working with someone else that knows how to make it work. See what I'm saying.

Mike

 

[MJS]

you don't race his punch with your parry; you step out of the way, in toward him, and use the parry to unbalance him, to set up a series of hard strikes, joint locks or partial throws, and then a finishing strike (if your art is striking-based). You don't seem to want to understand this almost routine aspect of MA technique.

Thank you!!:ultracool :ultracool 2 thumbs up for this comment!!! If I could rep you for this I would, but I gotta spread it around a bit.

 

[MJS]

Ok... First... You don't think a fist is "real danger?!":erg: I could dig up some statistics about people beaten to death by unarmed assailants who, I guess, weren't in "real danger." ANYBODY attacking you with ANYTHING is a REAL danger. Any other mentality is inviting injury -- if you're lucky.

You want to talk about reaction time? With rare exceptions, most of us don't have the reaction time to go from what Cooper called "condition white" (unalert & unaware) to "red" (engaged in combat) and successfully defend themselves from the initial attack -- especially since a real attacker is going to be optimizing surprise. They're going to look for the opportunity to catch you in condition white, not in orange or even red. They want you to jump from white to black (panic).

How do you solve that problem? PRACTICE. In a realistic manner, at realistic speeds, designed to ingrain correct reactions in your reflexes instead of conscious thought.

How is a parry going to work for real? You'll perceive the attack, your body will move, and all those hours of dedicated practice will draw it out of your muscles. You likely won't realize what's happening. As Bruce Lee once said ... "IT" happens.

Great points! This is the idea of drilling and practicing over and over and over and over. There has been many times when I've been working with my instructor and he breaks the 'pattern' of things, and without even thinking, I've just adapted to what he did. No hesitation, no "oh wait, what do I do?" I'm no Master by any means, but it just goes to show what can be done with hard work and practice!!

You're making claims and assumptions about reality, and about training... Maybe you need to back your authority up with something about yourself, not just quoting or misquoting your instructor.

Yes, I'd like to hear that as well.

I'm a cop. I've been there, done that, and had people try to do it to me. I've been lucky; nobody's tried to knife me or shoot me. But I've had more than a few fight me. I've gone hands on for real... And I don't consider myself an "expert." I can name at least a dozen people without trying that are more skilled and more experienced than I am. Beyond that... I've boxed. I've kickboxed. I've even wrestled.

Well, like I always say, its nice to hear from people who put their life on the line everyday.:asian:

Mike

 

[MJS]

So, you have proven my point............ most of us just don't have the reaction time. That's why boxing matches and MMA fights don't look like it does in the dojo. You will seldom fing a parry. Don't let these stripmall dojos fool ya, a real fight aint what it is on the mat.

Did you read what he said??? In case you missed it, let me post it again:

You want to talk about reaction time? With rare exceptions, most of us don't have the reaction time to go from what Cooper called "condition white" (unalert & unaware) to "red" (engaged in combat) and successfully defend themselves from the initial attack -- especially since a real attacker is going to be optimizing surprise. They're going to look for the opportunity to catch you in condition white, not in orange or even red. They want you to jump from white to black (panic).

I don't know about you, but I personally feel that there are some that are more aware than others. Whenever I'm out, I'm aware of whats going on around me. I'm not like some people that I see walking around, that are so distracted with a cell phone conversation or just with their head in the clouds in general, that they don't see whats around them. Again, you're assuming that everyone is the same. You do alot of preaching, but I've yet to see much from you backing up what you say. You see one thing, and you think that everyone is the same. Scenario drills are a big tool in working on what I just copied above.

To you others, go ahead and parry, parry, parry. I wish I find you guys in my next fight.

I hope thats not a challenge. You may want to read this. And more specifically, this part:


No "Challenges" - If there is a threat or physical challenge, real or perceived, issued, the person making said threat will be immediately banned from this board with no warning or recourse.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Senin,
Being alert at all times is key here. Being able to read a situation is the ultimate solution to self defense but thats not easy most people don't do that. But I take offense to strip mall dojo comment. I have been in real fights and I teach my students in that manner. But everyone has to start somewhere and somewhere is normally at the beginning or the basics. Now you seem to know all about real fights have you been in one? Have you been attacked by a nut that was strung out on drugs or some nut that had a knife? I have and let me tell you its unblieveablely scary, enough to make you want to wet yourself but keeping my composure is what got me out of it.

 

[Adept]

So, you have proven my point............ most of us just don't have the reaction time. That's why boxing matches and MMA fights don't look like it does in the dojo. You will seldom fing a parry. Don't let these stripmall dojos fool ya, a real fight aint what it is on the mat.

To you others, go ahead and parry, parry, parry. I wish I find you guys in my next fight.

There is so much you need to learn, I'm frankly lost for words.

 

[ChineseKempoJerry]

I am a retired kickboxer and retired mma fighter. To say parring does not exist may be incorrect. I can see the confusion because sometimes parrying is so subtle that it fools you into not seeing it.

I don't want to get caught in semantics here.

Block- Stop incoming force with force.

Parry- Redirect the force of the attack.

Typically when a boxer is slipping, contact is being made and the force of the attack is being redirected. Subtle but technically a parry.

In MMA when a fighter sprawls he is parrying because the force of the attack is redirected downward.

I think Seinin that you probably do these things, but like everyone we have different names for them. I do not try to get caught up in the word game, but the principles are universal. As Americans we really want to have a complete vocabulary when talking about fighting. I just do not want to get caught up in it.

If when you explain it and the other person gets it, then things are right. Remember it is the principle that is universal not the names.

Hope this helps!

Sifu Jerry