The Shaolin in SKK

[marlon]

Well I stand corrected, if your right.

So if you are correct Cerio learned Hansuki ( maybe my spelling is wrong) from Chun.

If thats correct as you state then Cerio learned it from Chun, Cerio then trained Villari.

So then Villari was trained by Cerio who was trained and studied with Pesare, Chow, Parker and Chun. If thats correct, as you state, then Villari appears to have a pretty good lineage of instructors to back up his system.

I'm sure my Villari kenpo seniors like Prof. Shuras, Joe Rebello and GM Cunningham can verify the truth of the matter, whatever that is.

Please understand I'm not trying to take a negative position with you I'm just tired of hearing GM Villari constantly referred to as if he is not worthy of his position yet people in his lineage are considered true Masters.

My training with Mr. Villari literally saved my life. I left my position in the original USSD and worked for twenty six years in high risk law enforcement assignments where I was forced to fight for my life on a number of occasions. I'm here today because of the training I learned via Mr. Villari, James Bryant and others which I was able to use on the street where ultimately it counts.

Regarding GM Cerio's BB staus from Prof. Chow, according to you it was not real and/or not from Prof. Chow's system.

I don't know but if Chow was simply assigning rank as you infer then I guess all subsequent rank from Chow is not legitimate going on your theory.

If thats correct then all of the BB rank Chow awarded to Emperado, Parker et al is apparently illegitimate. Therefore subsequent rank to Gascon, Chapel, Tracy and Pesare would also be suspect.

I hope not because then were all illegitimate.

What I've read about Prof. Chow I don't think he would just "give out" advanced ranking for no reason.

Danjo is correct about the form. As a skk practitioner who had a lot of misgivings about the legitimacy of GM Villari and his system, i did a great deal of invetigation. GM Villari's marketing and business practices bother many people as well as his self promotion to 10th dan. however, i have found that the skk system, properly taught and trained is exceptionally effective. Most people do not question his skills (especially as a Nick Cerio black belt) adn i have tried to find all the things wrong with skk and other than the way some people teach and practice it (true of almost all martial art systems) it is lacking in very little. I personally wish that GM Villari would have just waited for the martial arts community to judge the merit of his style and i am sure he would have been recognized and we all could have avoided much drama. Business is something else entirely...earning money is good, having it is great so, what can i say, i am not very adept at making money from martial arts and have almost had to close a few times...does that make me somehow more ethical than GM Villari, not really...There is nothing wrong with selling a good product at a good price...just make sure of the quality assurance, though because there is nothing more dangerous that teaching crap and passing it off as self defense. In the case of skk that is more about the organization and / or teacher than the system.

Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[marlon]

People trained harder in the "old" days. I'm not saying that they were more athletic (people do amazingly acrobatic things these days), but it was harder contact and the mentality was different. Whether it was Shotokan, TKD, Shaolin Kempo etc., schools were where fighters trained, they weren't a health club. So I have no doubt that your training has served you well and that your loyalty is justified. But we'll continue to point out the facts as we know them.

To me lineage isn't "everyone that I ever learned something from". If that were the case, then I could list a ton of martial artists that I'd met at seminars, belt tests, trained with in PE classes (took Aikido in PE in college), etc. To me lineage is the instructor that you earned your rank from, not the one who awarded you some rank in consideration for what you already knew. I feel badly for those that trained in SKK in the old days who have to put up with what has happened commercially in the system. I also feel badly for those that currently train in SKK under someone who is legit now, and trains like they used to.

So well said, sir. I thank you for your integrity and honesty. hopefully, yourself and those of us who think along the same lines can find way to inspire a greater return to the positive aspects of the early days of training.

Respect,
Marlon

 

[Danjo]

So well said, sir. I thank you for your integrity and honesty. hopefully, yourself and those of us who think along the same lines can find way to inspire a greater return to the positive aspects of the early days of training.

Respect,
Marlon

Thanks for the kind words.

We still train like they used to. Kajukenbo has never been commercial and so the level of training has stayed pretty consistent over the years. With us, it's the exceptions that don't train hard rather than the rule. Given that, we don't retain very many students and Prof. Bishop only makes enough money from teaching to get a little fishing gear or maybe some ammo for hunting.

We may not look the prettiest in terms of forms etc. as a group (there are some that look excetionally well and compete), but we're some roughneck mothers, and those that aren't don't last beyond the first sparring class.

You'll just have to blame that attitude on Sijo Emperado. He always wanted to see the gi's messed up, soaked in sweat and at least a little blood spilled before training was over.

We're always happy to oblige.

 

[LawDog]

Shaolin in the original SKK, there was none.
On my first USSD patch there was no "Shaolin Kenpo / Kempo. The first "Shaolin Kenpo" patch came out during the mid 70's followed by a "Shaolin Kempo" patch. The Bruce Lee craze and the Kung Fu series made the term "Shaolin" very marketable.
In my first USSD instructors booklet, very early 70's, there was no mention of Hansuke. A few years later I was given another instructors booklet, in this booklet the words, #6 Kata, Shodanqua, (as spelled) and Hansuke, had been hand written in.
I was first taught "Shodanqua" around 73 ish and then Hansuke a year or so later.
During the early 70's we were taught what all of the early USSD staff was trained in, SGM Cerios system. Later on both GM Cerio and the USSD change the system from top to bottom.
I did not train under GM Cerio directly but I did attend many of his seminars and met him on many occasions at a martial arts supply store that was located in Rhode Island, it is called "Ninja World". When I did see him at this store he was very open and candid about things. I will go into this area at another time because dinner is waiting.

 

[amcgroup]

So much confusion. I strongly agree that the use of the term "Shaolin" was utilized as a marketing ploy to captialize on the kung fu craze at the time but I'm not sure if it happened at all the studios at the same time.

I began training at the Dedham, MA. studio in the mid-seventies directly under Mr. Bryant and Mr. Villari, eventually working there as a fulltime instructor.

All of my promotion certificates up to Shodan, which I have, state my ranking was in "Chinese Kenpo", which was what the art was always referred to during my time there.

I am not disputing anyones else recollection of events at their dojo's, I just don't know how uniformly things were done at every studio.

In the early 1980's I recieved a BB ranking which now called the system "Shaolin Kempo". under the USSD banner prior to Mr. Villari creating his "own" system.

Mr. Cunningham and Mr. Shuras are both my seniors with more experience I'm just relating what I know went on at the Dedham studio during that time period.

I think we all agree the infamous Shaolin title was used for business which was the beginning of the downfall for the credibility of the system.

The original style, descended from Cerio-Pesare-Gascon-Emperado and Chow, all called by different names, was a complete SD style that works. I don't know whats gone on since but my experience with the Villari students of today has not been good.

 

[Danjo]

The original style, descended from Cerio-Pesare-Gascon-Emperado and Chow, all called by different names, was a complete SD style that works.

Prof. Chow's Kenpo/Kempo changed and evolved a lot over the years until his death. It was never systematized by him, but at the time that Adriano Emperado trained it was a pretty linear system with a lot of rapid-fire strikes to vital areas.

Sijo A.D. Emperado formed Kajukenbo with four other martial artists in the late 1940's and it was and is substantially different than Prof. Chow's Kenpo. In fact, it's not really Kenpo, although it does have a lot of Kenpo concepts and elements in it.

Gascon was a student of John Leoning. Leoning was a brown belt in Kajukenbo when he came out to California in the 1950's and opened a school. Gascon left training with him before he reached black belt and started teaching on his own with the help of a Kajukenbo black belt named Walter Godin. They called their art Karazenpo and had a school for a while.

George Pesare trained with Gascon for a few of months (the story varies from 3 months to 6 months depending on who's telling the story, Gascon said it was three months) and Pesare got to purple belt and then moved back to the East Coast (RI) and started teaching there what he called "Kenpo". He later earned black belts in TKD and Judo and formed his art of "TKD-Kenpo" which has changed names several times over the years.

Cerio was a student of Pesare and got his black belt from him. Cerio later cross-trained with various other martial artists and later left the Pesare system and formed his own that he called "Nick Cerio's Kempo".

Villari, trained under Cerio while he was still teaching what he'd learned from Pesare (as wittnessed by the early Pesare footage). Villari got to 2nd degree and then left Cerio to start his schools and system of what eventually became Shaloin Kempo Karate.

Mattera trained under Villari to 7th degree, then broke off from him in the late 1980's and started the USSD teaching the same system of SKK he got from Villari (I have the entire curriculum on video from both and it's the same stuff).

SKK has exactly one-half of one technique that is the same as Original Method Kajukenbo (SKK Combo #4 and Kajukenbo Punch Counter #6). That's how much of Kajukenbo ended up in SKK. This was due to Pesare's only being a purple belt when he quit training and the fact that Gascon and Godin had already changed the Karazenpo curriculum from Kajukenbo before Pesare trained with them.

Pesare was/is a creative guy. He pretty much created his own system from only a small handful of techniques. I have said for a long time that he should be considered the true root of the SKK system, since it was all pretty much built on his foundation.

Going back to Emperado and Chow is merely an academic excercise since very little of what they taught is left in SKK and nearly everything Pesare taught Cerio is there still. Pesare seems to get short changed IMO.

 

[Senjojutsu]

So much confusion. I strongly agree that the use of the term "Shaolin" was utilized as a marketing ploy to captialize on the kung fu craze at the time but I'm not sure if it happened at all the studios at the same time.

I began training at the Dedham, MA. studio in the mid-seventies directly under Mr. Bryant and Mr. Villari, eventually working there as a fulltime instructor.

All of my promotion certificates up to Shodan, which I have, state my ranking was in "Chinese Kenpo", which was what the art was always referred to during my time there.

I am not disputing anyones else recollection of events at their dojo's, I just don't know how uniformly things were done at every studio.

In the early 1980's I recieved a BB ranking which now called the system "Shaolin Kempo". under the USSD banner prior to Mr. Villari creating his "own" system.

Mr. Cunningham and Mr. Shuras are both my seniors with more experience I'm just relating what I know went on at the Dedham studio during that time period.

I think we all agree the infamous Shaolin title was used for business which was the beginning of the downfall for the credibility of the system.

The original style, descended from Cerio-Pesare-Gascon-Emperado and Chow, all called by different names, was a complete SD style that works. I don't know whats gone on since but my experience with the Villari students of today has not been good.

Hello,

Your post caused me the interest to dig out my old rank certificates while I trained out of Quincy signed by Freddy J…. I mean “By the Supreme Authority of: President Frederick J. Villari”.

My very first certificate, issued in January 1981 read “United Studios of Self Defense”.

The very next one in March 1981, and all subsequent certificates I received, then read “Fred Villari’s Studios of Self Defense” and countersigned by Director Charles Mattera - with the exact words, with a minor different font, and the fist image within the Shaolin Kempo Karate seal slightly modified.

I do see my first certificate was countersigned by Director Arthur Singer. Anyone know what happened to Art Singer? I mean I never met the man, just curious.

FWIW, I have always wondered (with my corporate word experience) the logic behind rebranding a company’s name. Often rebranding is the empty suit CEO’ s answer “to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic”… as in nobody is buying our lousy products - so let’s change our name to justify my existence. In the large corporate world renaming costs are simply amazing, it’s a lot more than just reordering stationary.

But in this case I know Freddy’s empire was still growing robustly at least during the early 1980s - before all the defections started. But it would be interesting if anyone would have the exact timeline on when the “Shaolin Kempo Karate” imprimatur was introduced into his system. Perhaps after a certain TV Series Pilot movie was broadcasted on Sunday night, 02/22/1972?


I do know that phrase “Shaolin Kempo Karate” so annoyed the traditional CMA people back in the day. Now looking at it (culturally) there is so much wrong with it. As in saying I’ll have a me a “British Croissant” and some “French Borsht” for breakfast. But then at least Mr. Villari, to my knowledge, never named himself a "Soke”.