The Shaolin in SKK

[LawDog]

Yep,
I remember that article and have a copy of it.
What Fred did back then today most everybody is doing or trying to do now.
Why bang on just Fred?
:idunno:

 

[Matt]

Here's an enlightening article about Villari and the original USSD. Turns out that Black Belt Magazine has all of it's issues scanned on Google in a searchable database.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Z9...+villari+markets+the+martial+arts&output=html

Fantastic. I have a cruddy copy of this one, but the google scan is much better. I think this one is a must read for SKK folks, and is a pretty good primer for any discussion regarding Villari and the Early USSD. Thank you for finding and sharing this gem. How about that picture spread of Combination 13!

Anyone who doubts if FV ever 'had it' should definitely read Massad Ayoob's (author of In the Gravest Extreme, a pretty compelling book on the role of the handgun in self defense) description of him.

One thing I think is funny (haven't read this one in a long time) is where they say that despite the longer hours, the road to black belt at USSD is no shorter than the other established competitors, about two or three years...

 

[Matt]

P.S. - Just for fun, find the biggest 'whopper' told in the article!

 

[Danjo]

P.S. - Just for fun, find the biggest 'whopper' told in the article!

The part where he said he wasn't getting rich off of the USSD?

 

[Danjo]

Yep,
I remember that article and have a copy of it.
What Fred did back then today most everybody is doing or trying to do now.
Why bang on just Fred?
:idunno:

Wasn't banging on him, just pointing out the article and what he said concerning the techniques in SKK.

 

[LawDog]

Danjo,
I didn't think that you were, my point was that if people were going to bang Fred that they should bang on the others as well.

 

[DavidCC]

P.S. - Just for fun, find the biggest 'whopper' told in the article!

hard to say... some of these might be true

"While in the islands, Villari studied under a Chinese-Australian instructor, Soo, and gained his third and fourth degrees. After working with another master, Len Chou, Villari received his fifth degree and soon decided to open his own school."

"Kenpo… is virtually the same as kung-fu"

"Within a few moths any student of mine … has learned … combinations I know will work because I have tested them on the street"

"I can put 6 knives into a postage stamp from 12 feet"

 

[Danjo]

Gotta love self promotion.

 

[almost a ghost]

hard to say... some of these might be true

"While in the islands, Villari studied under a Chinese-Australian instructor, Soo, and gained his third and fourth degrees. After working with another master, Len Chou, Villari received his fifth degree and soon decided to open his own school."

Combine that with this quote

"The Chinese Masters I have studied under refer to their art as 'Chinese boxing.' If you were to ask them what style, they'd be insulted. And these are the true masters."

So Chinese masters get insulted if you ask them what style of Kung fu they do, but have no problem using a Japanese ranking system. Riiiiiiight.

 

[DavidCC]

This was the first time I had ever heard of Mr. Villari having any rank between 2nd and 10th.

 

[Danjo]

This was the first time I had ever heard of Mr. Villari having any rank between 2nd and 10th.

Good point. And it wasn't like they each gave him a 1st in their arts, they just kept promoting him up the ladder one stripe at a time. Hmmmm...

 

[Hand Sword]

Gotta love self promotion.

Something that most if not all of our pioneers were/are guilty of.

 

[Hand Sword]

Good point. And it wasn't like they each gave him a 1st in their arts, they just kept promoting him up the ladder one stripe at a time. Hmmmm...

Which still goes on with high rankers, organizations, etc....

 

[Danjo]

Which still goes on with high rankers, organizations, etc....

Too true. Sad, but true.

 

[Jonny Figgis]

Something that most if not all of our pioneers were/are guilty of.

Okay, I am not trying to be controversial or ruffle any feathers but is it not true that when a style is developed that the originators/creators would be considered 10th Dan or 10th Degree? (taking it that 10th Dan or 10th Degree is the highest rank one can achieve) In self defence systems, they are referred to as being the founders of the system which equates to this dan ranking.

Fred Villari created SKK from various styles of martial arts so therefore he could be considered a 10th Degree. Some other examples of this would be...EPAK is made up of various martial arts and SGM Parker was a 10th Degree and he created the system. This would be the same for Kajukenbo, JKD, Hapkido or Tae Kwon Do. If I am wrong here, please correct me as I may misunderstand the process and would like correction if this is so.

Great to start a thread and get the conversations going with some great martial artists...many thanks for your contributions.

 

[LawDog]

Being a legit 10th dan is subject to biased and non-biased opinons. If a true span of control exists than who can point a finger.
There are many "legit" 9th & 10th dan's out there who do not have their own student base, school, or are one of those "instructors at large" types.
It comes down to this in many cases, who are their friends.
Judge a senior rank by the quality of thier own student base.

 

[kidswarrior]

Being a legit 10th dan is subject to biased and non-biased opinons. If a true span of control exists than who can point a finger.
There are many "legit" 9th & 10th dan's out there who do not have their own student base, school, or are one of those "instructors at large" types.
It comes down to this in many cases, who are their friends.
Judge a senior rank by the quality of thier own student base.

Very interesting perspective, LD. As I apply it to the people I know, seems pretty accurate.

I bolded the last sentence because that's always been my goal, to foster certain qualities in students. Have never thought about this in terms of my own rank, but has been about their growth and welfare.

 

[Danjo]

Okay, I am not trying to be controversial or ruffle any feathers but is it not true that when a style is developed that the originators/creators would be considered 10th Dan or 10th Degree? (taking it that 10th Dan or 10th Degree is the highest rank one can achieve) In self defence systems, they are referred to as being the founders of the system which equates to this dan ranking.

Fred Villari created SKK from various styles of martial arts so therefore he could be considered a 10th Degree. Some other examples of this would be...EPAK is made up of various martial arts and SGM Parker was a 10th Degree and he created the system. This would be the same for Kajukenbo, JKD, Hapkido or Tae Kwon Do. If I am wrong here, please correct me as I may misunderstand the process and would like correction if this is so.

Great to start a thread and get the conversations going with some great martial artists...many thanks for your contributions.

You got it. If you start your own system, you can rank yourself anything you want to because it's your system. I have no problem with Villari claiming 10th degree based on that (or anyone else for that matter). It's when they try to convince me that they earned their rank through years of hard work etc. mastering many systems that I have an issue with it. Villari seems less guilty of that than many others that have come along since him. At least he acknowledged his original teacher and the rank he got from him.

 

[LawDog]

Danjo,
Agreed.

 

[Rabu]

I dont see the link anymore, but for a long time I remember Danjo having a link to his super duper 10th degree master martial arts page.

Perhaps a revisit would be amusing?

Rpb