The rant thread

[Kreth]

"Questioning" perhaps isn't the proper term. Why don't you let me know what you believe constitutes a "realistic" attack, then? Realistic as in
a) uncommitted attack by trained martial artist

b) committed attack by trained martial artist

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Since we're talking kata training, B; although it seemed some were more used to A...

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

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Since we're talking kata training, B; although it seemed some were more used to A...

A can be pretty effective too.

 

[Kreth]

A can be pretty effective too.

Apparently we have different definitions of an uncommitted attack...

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Apparently we have different definitions of an uncommitted attack...

Possibly.

To be more specific, I personally believe the two latter are more likely to encounter for real than the two former. That is not to say that a and b will never happen for real however, and thus, I for one would try to avoid labelling any of them "realistic".

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

I have this quirk about me - a lot of the things that are frequent sources of amusement to Bujinkan people, I simply don't find funny. Sorry to say it.

Ben Jones comments in the book "Exploring the Essence" that Soke's sense of humour often revolves around the lowest common denominator, and that can be said in many other cases as well.

 

[Cryozombie]

Hatsumi sensei: Trying to reproduce a form is being its prisoner, the form kills the KI, the creativity as well as the spontaneity.

But what does he know about this art... probably just says this cuz he cant bend his knees, right G.E.B.?

:idunno::idunno:

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

But what does he know about this art... probably just says this cuz he cant bend his knees, right G.E.B.?

He can bend his knees a lot better than most people his age. :2xBird2:

"The Bujinkan is about killing people."

 

[Cryozombie]

He can bend his knees a lot better than most people his age. :2xBird2:

But just a couple pages back, arent you the one that said people only say variations of this because they use it as a way to justify not bending their knees?

 

[Cryozombie]

No, I take that back, I went back and reread your statement, and it wasnt about deviating from technique it was about adapting the art. My bad.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

I honestly cannot understand why a 15th dan would say to a kyu ranked person "if you can't understand this, you're going to be headed in the wrong direction in regards to what Hatsumi sensei is teaching".

Now, onto the real issues...even though you'll probably notice that I'm not exactly sure where this one's headed.

One day during training, Nagato-sensei said to me, “Ben. Your foot is in the wrong place. Move it over there.”

I slid my foot. “Here?” I asked.

“No. There.” Nagato answered.

I moved my foot the place Nagato pointed, then asked, “Why here?”
Nagato answered, “Because that’s where your foot should be.”
I nodded and continued training.

About two months later, Nagato-sensei again told me to move my foot to a different location. I did, and then I (dumbly) asked, “Why?” again.
Nagato-sensei again said, “Because that’s where your foot should be.”

Over time, I came to understand that was where my foot should be, and I didn’t need to ask why. It was evident in the progress of my budo.

My teacher told me what I should do, and I did it. And my budo began to improve as a result.

Now, in the mid 2000s, a whole bunch of Shidoshi are convinced that Kacem Zoughari (under Tetsuji Ishizuka) is teaching “the true way.” It is only a matter of time until these two individuals also leave the Bujinkan, I predict….

See, here's the thing - these two latter individuals are gaining in popularity because they teach in the exact manner described above. Which is more than can be said of anyone who teaches in Honbu these days. I'll leave it up to your own imagination to figure out how I feel qualified to comment on this.

I think we can all agree on the fact that Hatsumi can't and shouldn't be responsible for improving the kihon of everyone that shows up in Honbu. He needs to concentrate on bringing across the stuff only he can teach to the ones best suited to picking up the most of it. Perhaps this is all the more reason for people who are (note - who "are", not who "have") low ranking to not try to do what he does.

Why do I say that? Because I believe the truth will be made clear as day in times to come (when Soke is no longer teaching, for one reason or another) - if the disillusioned people going on about "testable" training should prove to be right, and most people thinking they've got a grip on what Hatsumi's teaching are playing themselves big time in that they're unable to pass on the knowledge, the whole budo community will be ashamed and wonder how things could go so wrong. But at the same time, those training with said individuals will have gotten a very good grip on kihon happo.
If however, the future's been secured and there's nothing to worry about, then there'll not only be a plethora of people to choose from who can pass along Soke's teachings, but we'll have all the time in the world to mend our ways and move beyond the form, which of course we'll all have mastered by that time.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

On refusing rank...

I haven't risen through the ranks anywhere near as fast as is common in the Bujinkan nowadays. Personally (and this is only a gut feeling on my part, nothing more and nothing less) I believe that this has primarily to do with three things - 20 percent due to my tendency to ruffle feathers (however right I may be), 20 percent due to the fact that I tend to keep two or three steps ahead of current events and can sometimes have a hard time focusing on the moment, and 60 percent due to my relative absence for the last two and a half years. That is, absence from my main dojo - I've come to realize that I won't ever be able to settle for just training with one single instructor for the rest of my budo career, perhaps because out of the five particular people I never feel I get enough from, two have fairly irregular teaching schedules and three live in Japan. Adding to this is the fact that it hasn't been until now that I've felt myself to be in the position to argue for better hours with my bosses, and thus haven't always been able to make it in time throughout the same period of time.

Despite all this, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that all I'd need to advance in a flash would be to become a permanent student at another dojo - but that's not going to happen. Despite all the things "at home" that continue to make my skin crawl with irritation and injustice, the benefits in terms of training partners, atmosphere, attitude and sheer nowledge over there have kept me coming back, and probably will for some time to come, even though there might be more (superficial, at least) appreciation to be had elsewhere.
During my last Japan visit I even told a particular Shihan that if I came home with the rank he'd recommended for me it would seem to everyone at home that the only reason I went to Japan was to get promoted (for those of you thinking I was just trying to make myself look humble, rest assured that the Shihan in question understood my predicament very well).

Someone commented to me recently that the only reason people refuse to accept rank is to make themselves look special, i.e. ego gratification.
I suppose I'm going to have to let others decide if that's the case with me, that I need that particular excuse in order to stand out.

 

[benkyoka]

Someone commented to me recently that the only reason people refuse to accept rank is to make themselves look special, i.e. ego gratification.

In some instances this may be the case. However; it also could be that the person refuses rank because they don't respect/value the person offering it to them.

 

[jks9199]

On refusing rank...

I haven't risen through the ranks anywhere near as fast as is common in the Bujinkan nowadays. Personally (and this is only a gut feeling on my part, nothing more and nothing less) I believe that this has primarily to do with three things - 20 percent due to my tendency to ruffle feathers (however right I may be), 20 percent due to the fact that I tend to keep two or three steps ahead of current events and can sometimes have a hard time focusing on the moment, and 60 percent due to my relative absence for the last two and a half years. That is, absence from my main dojo - I've come to realize that I won't ever be able to settle for just training with one single instructor for the rest of my budo career, perhaps because out of the five particular people I never feel I get enough from, two have fairly irregular teaching schedules and three live in Japan. Adding to this is the fact that it hasn't been until now that I've felt myself to be in the position to argue for better hours with my bosses, and thus haven't always been able to make it in time throughout the same period of time.

Despite all this, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that all I'd need to advance in a flash would be to become a permanent student at another dojo - but that's not going to happen. Despite all the things "at home" that continue to make my skin crawl with irritation and injustice, the benefits in terms of training partners, atmosphere, attitude and sheer nowledge over there have kept me coming back, and probably will for some time to come, even though there might be more (superficial, at least) appreciation to be had elsewhere.
During my last Japan visit I even told a particular Shihan that if I came home with the rank he'd recommended for me it would seem to everyone at home that the only reason I went to Japan was to get promoted (for those of you thinking I was just trying to make myself look humble, rest assured that the Shihan in question understood my predicament very well).

Someone commented to me recently that the only reason people refuse to accept rank is to make themselves look special, i.e. ego gratification.
I suppose I'm going to have to let others decide if that's the case with me, that I need that particular excuse in order to stand out.

You certainly do seem to make yourself stand out without any help by refusing rank -- if what I see on these boards is typical.

But some of your reasons for slow progress seem kind of like sour grapes-type excuses. (Kind of like my own "they changed the rules and I don't like the new rules" since the rule change came just after I "should have been" promoted under the old method...) Let me float a possible solution to your peripatetic training. The Japanese shihan (or other instructors) should be able to contact your primary instructor and suggest that you be promoted. When your primary instructor gets sufficient input from others, he can make a decision to promote you or not. I'd personally never tell someone that they should be promoted or a certain rank; I might contact their instructor and suggest it. After all, there may be another reason that isn't apparent in a weekend clinic or whatever scenario I evaluated them in.

But I'm confused... what do you mean by staying "ahead of current events?"

 

[Shicomm]

Someone commented to me recently that the only reason people refuse to accept rank is to make themselves look special, i.e. ego gratification.

Politics get in the way also... some buyu do have the guts to come to Japan without their teacher but are too affraid of the response that they would get when returning home with a higher rank.
It happens quite often but most of the time people dont talk about it...

 

[Cryozombie]

In some instances this may be the case. However; it also could be that the person refuses rank because they don't respect/value the person offering it to them.

Or that they genuinley recognize that they dont deserve the rank yet...

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Lot's of different reasons come into play. Some are good, some are bad but eventually they fall on the persons shoulders and they have to live with their choice.

 

[stephen]

Or that they genuinley recognize that they dont deserve the rank yet...

Who is a student to tell his teacher that he knows best? Sounds like this is actually a variation of benkyoka's reason; in other words, time for a new teacher.

 

[Cryozombie]

Who is a student to tell his teacher that he knows best? Sounds like this is actually a variation of benkyoka's reason; in other words, time for a new teacher.

Maybe, but there is that whole "giving rank so the student can grow into it" thing, that I think maybe some students are/would be resistant to. I dunno... we actually test for our ranks in my group, so I dont really know how the issue of handing out ranks works... I was just thinking.

 

[stephen]

Maybe, but there is that whole "giving rank so the student can grow into it" thing, that I think maybe some students are/would be resistant to. I dunno... we actually test for our ranks in my group, so I dont really know how the issue of handing out ranks works... I was just thinking.

If you 'test' for ranks that just pushes the question down another level. How do you know your 'test' is really at the right level? After all. there are no guidelines from Japan.

You're just saying that you pass a test which your instructor deems appropriate to the rank you are testing for. The instructor then evaluates your performance against some standard in their head.

What if you feel that you haven't passed the test as well as you should? Do you refuse the pass. Do you ask to be given a harder test? It's the same situation. You're telling your instructor that you know the path better than he.

Might be true, you might know better. But, then, you shouldn't be going to his class.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

You certainly do seem to make yourself stand out without any help by refusing rank -- if what I see on these boards is typical.

I'm actually not that much of a rebel with a cause, it's just that I have a problem with mixed messages.

The Japanese shihan (or other instructors) should be able to contact your primary instructor and suggest that you be promoted.

Yeah, like that's not going to make me seem any more "special"...

But I'm confused... what do you mean by staying "ahead of current events?"

I see a fifteen year old with a 59-Fifty tilted to the side looking at mp3 players, and I can already see myself calling the police after having relieved him/her of the stolen goods as well as a beat-up pen knife. I see someone teaching something that I know right away I'm going to encounter resistance while doing, even though it most often boils down to my over-reliance of my arms as opposed to my legs. I see the seminar instructor demonstrating some technique that has both people ending up on the ground, and I'm already mentally going through all the nasty counters I'm going to have to pull off if the 200 pound green belt with a tribal tattoo I'm training with won't let go as soon as I tap...get the picture?