The Original Curiculum of Kajukenbo/Karazenpo

[John Bishop]

Mr. Bishop,

From the 1st page lol

I finally obtained the original tape set of Gary Forbach from Panther Videos. Is there a written syllabus that goes through these tapes any where or would it be possible to get one that corresponds with the curriculum you outlined earlier to know what is missing if anything. I know the tapes only go to 1st BB.

Thankyou.

The first series of Kajukenbo tapes (Panther Productions 1986) are not entirely complete as to the "Original Method".
They lack the "26 Advanced Alphabet" techniques, the "two man", and the "three man" defense techniques.
They also reflect GM Aleju Reyes's influence on Kajukenbo. All the techniques that have a "A" after them are additional techniques that Reyes added to his teachings. GM Reyes's stuck to Sijo Emperado's wishes to "create, add, but don't change the original techniques". So the "A" techniques you see on the Panther tapes are usually not taught outside of the Reyes family of black belts.

These are the requirements up to "student black". Additional requirements for higher ranks are usually decided by the individual instructor:

Kajukenbo Belt Requirements (Original Method)

[font=arial, helvetica, verdana]Yellow (optional rank): [/font]
[font=arial, helvetica, verdana]Palama Set 14,
Orange (Traditionally White/Purple):
grab arts 1-7, punch counters 1-5, club counters 1&2, knife counters 1&2, Palama set. 14,1,2,3
Purple:
grab arts 1-15, punch counters 1-9, club counters 1-4, knife counters 1-4, Palama set. 14,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,
Blue:
punch counters 1-12, club counters 1-7, knife counters 1-7, 2 man attacks 1&2, Palama set. 14,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
Green:
punch counters 1-21, club counter 1-8, knife counter 1-8, Palama set.14,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13, 2 man attacks 1-5, alphabets a,b,c,
Brown:
club counters 1-11, knife counters 1-11, 2 man attacks 1-8, alphabets a,b,c,d,e,
Student Black:
club counters 1-15, knife counters 1-15, 3 man attack 1, alphabets a,b,c,d,e,f,g

[/font]

 

[Danjo]

Yes, some of the combinations of Karazenpo were taken from the original 21 punch counters of Kajukenbo and some were created for Karazenpo but inspired from Kajukenbo and the influences of John Leoning, Victor Gascon and Walter Godin (Godin also studied under Chow). As far as which are the same and different, I'd have to really go through the Kajukenbo material and match it up to the Karazenpo. Off hand, from recent discussions I've had, Shaolin Kempo's #6 combination is found in Kajukenbo and is basically the same as Karazenpo's original #1 when I was with G. Pesare back in '78 (he has since re-numbered and changed some of the combinations). I forget what punch counter # it corresponds to in Kajukenbo, I'd have to check the video I got from John Bishop. Shaolin Kempo's #4 combination is, I think #6 in Kajukenbo (not sure) but I know it's in there with an outward block instead of overhead. Essentially, 1-20, 22 & 26 minus 17 are found in the Karazenpo of New England. Cerio added everything else up to I believe around 39. He may have added #16 also, can't remember. SK's 1-5 kata came directly from Karazenpo of Gascon/Godin, Statue of the Crane was adopted to the system by Pesare form Okinawan's Rohai and katas 6 and 7 were created by Pesare with #6 being a series of the original combinations put together and #7 was created from a drill which inspired SK's Swift Tigers & NCK's Circle of the Panther. Some have said the original KGS forms (1-5) were inspired by the original 8 forms of Kajukenbo, others say the first 6 but regardless they are definitely different and indigneous to Karazenpo, except for #4). As a matter of fact, #4 was inspired by Okinawan Kenpo's Pinan #1 which is Shotokan's Heian 2. I know it gets a little confusing to say the least....lol

Thanks Prof., Just curious as to how much had changed. Mattera left the combo's the same in the USSD from Villari, but before I stopped training there, they were beginning to change the way they were done (imho, not for the better either) it seemed that every master there wanted to change something just so he could say that he did. I would rather that they adhere to what John Bishop said about add and create but leave the original stuff alone. It would make things entirely less confusing. My impression was when I was at the USSD that the skill of most of the practitioners was "a mile wide but only an inch deep", to use an old phrase. They taught every technique, but the proficiency requirements weren't very high. Hence, a lot of head knowledge, but little muscle knowledge. If that makes any sense. BTW, I am only going from my own personal observations here from ,my time training there and testing at the Lake Forest HQ. I have always pushed myself like we used to do in Shotokan, but there weren't many that would. I still train almost every day in the material I learned there just to keep it fresh and solid. I use the Villari DVDs to help me with remembering the material and I'm even going forward with the upper brown and black belt material. Hopefully in June, when I will have time, I can find a good dojo to train in. I notice John Bishop's school is only about 15 minutes from where I live. It would be nice to get some serious training.

 

[Karazenpo]

Thanks Prof., Just curious as to how much had changed. Mattera left the combo's the same in the USSD from Villari, but before I stopped training there, they were beginning to change the way they were done (imho, not for the better either) it seemed that every master there wanted to change something just so he could say that he did. I would rather that they adhere to what John Bishop said about add and create but leave the original stuff alone. It would make things entirely less confusing. My impression was when I was at the USSD that the skill of most of the practitioners was "a mile wide but only an inch deep", to use an old phrase. They taught every technique, but the proficiency requirements weren't very high. Hence, a lot of head knowledge, but little muscle knowledge. If that makes any sense. BTW, I am only going from my own personal observations here from ,my time training there and testing at the Lake Forest HQ. I have always pushed myself like we used to do in Shotokan, but there weren't many that would. I still train almost every day in the material I learned there just to keep it fresh and solid. I use the Villari DVDs to help me with remembering the material and I'm even going forward with the upper brown and black belt material. Hopefully in June, when I will have time, I can find a good dojo to train in. I notice John Bishop's school is only about 15 minutes from where I live. It would be nice to get some serious training.

You're right on the money, Danjo. Create, add but leave the original material alone and that's essentially what Villari did. For the most part, he took what Cerio had originally taught him and that was his curriculum to black belt and little beyond. After that, he added and created his own system. I found an old book of Cerio, in paperback, doing techniques and some were the some punch techniques and combinations and they were the same as I was taught by Villari's in the 70's. The forms themselves, don't deviate that much from what Pesare taught Cerio but there are some individual stylistic differences but I think you get that everywhere from what I've seen, even in Shotokan. As far as every master wanting to change something just to say they did, well, it goes a little deeper than that. It's so they can say, "Look world, I've discovered a new system, now I'm a 10th dan", lol. Yes, a problem with the Villari schools is "a mile wide but only an inch deep" as far as really 'honing' their skills for each rank, true the knowledge is there, just not enough time to develop it to its potential for each rank. However, Gm. Villari has a saying for that: "The cream always rises to the top." As far as the old days went (70's), you didn't have to push yourself because the instructors did it for you, lol, and 'contact' wasn't anything you had to ask for, it was part of the curriculum but in time everything changed.

 

[Danjo]

You're right on the money, Danjo. Create, add but leave the original material alone and that's essentially what Villari did. For the most part, he took what Cerio had originally taught him and that was his curriculum to black belt and little beyond. After that, he added and created his own system. I found an old book of Cerio, in paperback, doing techniques and some were the some punch techniques and combinations and they were the same as I was taught by Villari's in the 70's. The forms themselves, don't deviate that much from what Pesare taught Cerio but there are some individual stylistic differences but I think you get that everywhere from what I've seen, even in Shotokan. As far as every master wanting to change something just to say they did, well, it goes a little deeper than that. It's so they can say, "Look world, I've discovered a new system, now I'm a 10th dan", lol. Yes, a problem with the Villari schools is "a mile wide but only an inch deep" as far as really 'honing' their skills for each rank, true the knowledge is there, just not enough time to develop it to its potential for each rank. However, Gm. Villari has a saying for that: "The cream always rises to the top." As far as the old days went (70's), you didn't have to push yourself because the instructors did it for you, lol, and 'contact' wasn't anything you had to ask for, it was part of the curriculum but in time everything changed.

Seems to me a lot of this could be solved by doing what my old Shotokan instructor used to do. He wouldn't hesitate to fail someone for their green belt test. He'd let them get through their first two white belt tests if they seemed to be able to memorize the material fairly well, but by the time they got their green belt, they had to have the basics and the first three hein kata down well. Now in Kempo they have a different color of belt for every test but the theory could still be the same: no green belt without proficiency. Few would give a damn about someone that said they were a yellow belt etc., but when they get to green, you expect to see some skill.

 

[The Kai]

A tad off topic, but.... How much does the USSD strss the whole Shaolin Thing?

From the websites it seems that they are really trying to writw histort a tad, plus they seem to post up any picture of the touring performance group in robes
Todd

 

[Danjo]

A tad off topic, but.... How much does the USSD strss the whole Shaolin Thing?

From the websites it seems that they are really trying to writw histort a tad, plus they seem to post up any picture of the touring performance group in robes
Todd

They stress the hell out of it. Demasco and Mattera can be seen in this month's Black Belt in the front editorial standing in front of the Shaolin Temple in China in front of the Monument dedicated to the USSD. Not that the monks are for sale or anything...

 

[The Kai]

Is'nt that a price tag under those robes.So basically a art with almost no (as in zip, zilch or nada) connection to the original temple, is sonehow quite magically shaolin wu shu

todd

 

[Karazenpo]

Seems to me a lot of this could be solved by doing what my old Shotokan instructor used to do. He wouldn't hesitate to fail someone for their green belt test. He'd let them get through their first two white belt tests if they seemed to be able to memorize the material fairly well, but by the time they got their green belt, they had to have the basics and the first three hein kata down well. Now in Kempo they have a different color of belt for every test but the theory could still be the same: no green belt without proficiency. Few would give a damn about someone that said they were a yellow belt etc., but when they get to green, you expect to see some skill.

Here's what I do and here's how I feel it should be done in general, no matter what system you're in. First, it would be psychologically upsetting to fail someone in a test, not to mention the peer pressure issues, especially with the younger students, but if you are the one that does the testing and you are the one that puts the student up, then YOU are the one that failed the test, not your student (with the exception of one thing I'll get into later). When I put someone's name on a list for testing, I have already evaluated that person in my mind and decided they are ready for the next rank. Now, next week or two weeks later, whatever the test date is, will not make much difference from the time you called it and put him or her up. So, for all intensive purposes, the student is already at that level and should pass, otherwise, you simply hold them back. The 'test' is a test of 'spirit' or 'heart' to see how well the student holds up under physical and mental stress. It's certainly not a test of knowledge because, you, the instructor, should know what you taught your student and what your student knows. It's certainly not a test of skill level either at this point because you already evaluated that before you put the student on the list. So, the only thing that could happen is he/she has a bad day or can't hold up to that type of pressure, freezes and buckles. Usually, it's the 'bad day' thing because we also run stress type classes and pre-tests to get the student acquainted to mental and physical turmoil, lol. In an actual test, if the student starts messing up I isolate them in a sense that other students are unaware of what's going on, maybe they are facing the wall or in another room, whatever, but they don't observe the student's total performance as to know they're messing up bigtime and are failing. What is then done is at the end they all appear to get their belts and certificates, however, the student(s) who fails has his/her diploma held in the office and the belt is simply honorary until they privately make up the portion of the test the screwed up. We help work with them on this. This way, it takes away any embarrassment and peer pressures. If they choose to tell someone they failed and their belt is only honorary, that's up to them but it doesn't come from our lips, the staff. This very rarely happens (but it does) as we just simply hold students back until we are pretty comfortable about promoting them. Remember, rank is subjective so if your school has a rule to send your students to your instructor or your seniors, organization, etc. for ranking and they differ with your opinion then this of course won't work. If you're out on the floor teaching and you know your students then this system will work for anyone!

 

[kelly keltner]

Hi,

Thank you for finding the site and posting it. Some are much better at this internet surfing than me...

Hi Kel,

You are so right about those guys in that huddle LOL... Boy I am going to have to brush up on the code, now that you have one.

It is'nt the conspiricy that gets you it is plotting the crime...Wait that is redundant.

They could not prove "Murder" so they went for conspiracy to commit.
It is especially good when you have the perp turn and say everyone else did it, when they get thru talking they get to walking...Never cared for snitch's.

To bad the system has to rely on them so much, funny they will convict on them and not DNA...Oh well, another time and place.

How is Robert Blake doing have'nt heard much on him. I believe he used to hang around the (Sifu Leoning) dojo on Lankershim in North Hollywood in the 60's. I am not sure about the one on Burbank Blvd. though.

Here is a real coincidence. Nudies was a place all western people and actors went. He was originally on Burbank Blvd. right in the same area as the first dojo, (Gascon and Leoning) then he moved and was right next to the other one on Lankershim Blvd. Hmmmmm I wonder????

I wonder if they conspired (Leoning and Gascon), or if it was the three who visited in the night????:idunno:

Anyone know???

Happy New year.

Regards, Gary

"I wonder if they conspired (Leoning and Gascon), or if it was the three who visited in the night????" Gary



Since it is right around Xmas. I was wondering if you were refering to the three wise men.
HA HA LOL
kelly

 

[GAB]

Here's what I do and here's how I feel it should be done in general, no matter what system you're in. First, it would be psychologically upsetting to fail someone in a test, not to mention the peer pressure issues, especially with the younger students, but if you are the one that does the testing and you are the one that puts the student up, then YOU are the one that failed the test, not your student (with the exception of one thing I'll get into later). When I put someone's name on a list for testing, I have already evaluated that person in my mind and decided they are ready for the next rank. Now, next week or two weeks later, whatever the test date is, will not make much difference from the time you called it and put him or her up. So, for all intensive purposes, the student is already at that level and should pass, otherwise, you simply hold them back. The 'test' is a test of 'spirit' or 'heart' to see how well the student holds up under physical and mental stress. It's certainly not a test of knowledge because, you, the instructor, should know what you taught your student and what your student knows. It's certainly not a test of skill level either at this point because you already evaluated that before you put the student on the list. So, the only thing that could happen is he/she has a bad day or can't hold up to that type of pressure, freezes and buckles. Usually, it's the 'bad day' thing because we also run stress type classes and pre-tests to get the student acquainted to mental and physical turmoil, lol. In an actual test, if the student starts messing up I isolate them in a sense that other students are unaware of what's going on, maybe they are facing the wall or in another room, whatever, but they don't observe the student's total performance as to know they're messing up bigtime and are failing. What is then done is at the end they all appear to get their belts and certificates, however, the student(s) who fails has his/her diploma held in the office and the belt is simply honorary until they privately make up the portion of the test the screwed up. We help work with them on this. This way, it takes away any embarrassment and peer pressures. If they choose to tell someone they failed and their belt is only honorary, that's up to them but it doesn't come from our lips, the staff. This very rarely happens (but it does) as we just simply hold students back until we are pretty comfortable about promoting them. Remember, rank is subjective so if your school has a rule to send your students to your instructor or your seniors, organization, etc. for ranking and they differ with your opinion then this of course won't work. If you're out on the floor teaching and you know your students then this system will work for anyone!

Hi Joe,

Yes, I think that is a very good way to approach it. When you are coaching someone you are not going to let them fail. Basically it is the failure of the person who the trust has been put, that would then have dropped the ball.

There are many ways to do the promoting, I feel as you this is a good and honorable way to do it.

Honesty is the best policy.

Regards, Gary

 

[GAB]

"I wonder if they conspired (Leoning and Gascon), or if it was the three who visited in the night????" Gary



Since it is right around Xmas. I was wondering if you were refering to the three wise men.
HA HA LOL
kelly

Hi Kel,

Well that was not what was running through the mind at the time, but I did get some red points and called a frigging bozo...

You know what they say about behavoiral modification, some will do it for praise and others do it for attention. Then others enjoy anonymity.

I would personally prefer an insult on the board, then we could discuss it.

Oh well, think I will surf.

Regards, Gary

 

[Danjo]

Prof. Excellent post. Okay, here, for the first time in public, is the story of how I failed my shotokan green belt test the first time I took it. When I was twelve, I got pissed because two of the people that started after I did, were being tested for green when I was not ( the fact that they were adults and had only started three months after I did was lost on me at twelve). I whined about it to a fellow student of mine,and it got back to my instructor. So, he came up to me and said that I could test with the group the next Thursday. Well, I paid my five dollars, and began the test. I crapped out about two thirds of the way through it (after the 500 punch and kick techniques) and couldn't finish the sparring section at all. Soooo I flunked and learned a lesson in humility all at the same time. Three months later, I had my green belt. I never tried to put myself up for a test again!

 

[Karazenpo]

Thanks Gary, thanks Danjo.

 

[Danjo]

Prof. Shuras,

How difficult is it to transfer from Shaolin Kempo to Karazenpo? I notice that there are a couple of schools in my area (though one looks as if they only have class one night per week). You mentioned you and your wife having fits trying to catch the kids that have tranfered up, but I assumed that that was mainly due to their lack of proficiency.

 

[Karazenpo]

Prof. Shuras,

How difficult is it to transfer from Shaolin Kempo to Karazenpo? I notice that there are a couple of schools in my area (though one looks as if they only have class one night per week). You mentioned you and your wife having fits trying to catch the kids that have tranfered up, but I assumed that that was mainly due to their lack of proficiency.

Hi Danjo, no, let me elaborate on that a little more. It's not Shaolin Kempo at all that we had a problem getting a couple of students up to par on but the commonality of these students were that they were from Mattera's organization in California. Many feel the Shaolin Kempo schools on the east coast hold themselves to a much higher standard. I've read this on many forums but have also experienced it first hand. I have friends in the Villari organization out here that are highly talented and do a good job propagating the art. I've heard the same about some of the east coast United Studios also. I also know many of former Shaolin Kempo guys who have broken off from either Villari or USSD in the last 5-10 years (some less) and developed quite an impressive reputation for themselves here on the east coast, some are members of this forum. This is not to put down any west coast schools that are not part of the 'norm' out there for I am sure there are some, I guess you could say 'rebel' schools, within the organization that are doing a helluva job and in my experiences, they will be the first wave that will soon go independant or hook up with someone else more in line with their views on business, training and promotions. Shaolin Kempo from the Villari lineage is Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu, it is the closest thing out there available to the 'masses' up to around nidan level. Remember, Gascon-Pesare-Cerio-Villari, it was S. George Pesare who continued Sonny Gascon's teachings in New England. It was Nick Cerio who learned this from Pesare and it was Fred Villari who learned it from Cerio in those early years. By 1974, Cerio made some rather radical changes although the foundation is still recognizable as KGS but Villari's kept things very close to what Cerio taught him. To this day, the original forms and combinations of KGS taught back in the late 50's and 60's by Gascon & Godin and then Pesare are very close to what the Villari schools and offshoots schools teach today. Remember, despite what Mattera says now, 'his' system is not 'his' system, it's 'Villari's system' and it was Villari who was his only true instructor. He spent very little time with Cerio, not the over three decades that he states today.

 

[Danjo]

Hi Danjo, no, let me elaborate on that a little more. It's not Shaolin Kempo at all that we had a problem getting a couple of students up to par on but the commonality of these students were that they were from Mattera's organization in California. Many feel the Shaolin Kempo schools on the east coast hold themselves to a much higher standard. I've read this on many forums but have also experienced it first hand. I have friends in the Villari organization out here that are highly talented and do a good job propagating the art. I've heard the same about some of the east coast United Studios also. I also know many of former Shaolin Kempo guys who have broken off from either Villari or USSD in the last 5-10 years (some less) and developed quite an impressive reputation for themselves here on the east coast, some are members of this forum. This is not to put down any west coast schools that are not part of the 'norm' out there for I am sure there are some, I guess you could say 'rebel' schools, within the organization that are doing a helluva job and in my experiences, they will be the first wave that will soon go independant or hook up with someone else more in line with their views on business, training and promotions. Shaolin Kempo from the Villari lineage is Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu, it is the closest thing out there available to the 'masses' up to around nidan level. Remember, Gascon-Pesare-Cerio-Villari, it was S. George Pesare who continued Sonny Gascon's teachings in New England. It was Nick Cerio who learned this from Pesare and it was Fred Villari who learned it from Cerio in those early years. By 1974, Cerio made some rather radical changes although the foundation is still recognizable as KGS but Villari's kept things very close to what Cerio taught him. To this day, the original forms and combinations of KGS taught back in the late 50's and 60's by Gascon & Godin and then Pesare are very close to what the Villari schools and offshoots schools teach today. Remember, despite what Mattera says now, 'his' system is not 'his' system, it's 'Villari's system' and it was Villari who was his only true instructor. He spent very little time with Cerio, not the over three decades that he states today.

Ah so. That was what I was curious about. My Chief Instructor in "Mattera's" USSD was a black belt from Villari. She was actually pretty good and would really allow us to work out hard and spar hard. But, alas, she caught living hell for it and now is back with Villari's organization. The dojo that we trained at was put under a "red belt" who was actually a green-brown-stripe. So I left the USSD and have been training on my own. The one Villari school in my area is too far to drive to, so I am waiting until the Summer to start live training. Karazenpo sounds like it might be what I am looking for and there is a school in my area. That is why I wanted to know how similar Shaolin Kempo, Karazenpo and Kajukenbo were. Is it the same story with Kajukenbo as with Karazenpo, or are there greater differences? Maybe that's best asked of John Bishop?

 

[John Bishop]

Is it the same story with Kajukenbo as with Karazenpo, or are there greater differences? Maybe that's best asked of John Bishop?

There are several variations in Kajukenbo.
There are 4 main systems, "Original Method", "Chuan Fa", "Tum Pai", and "Won Hop Kuen Do".
Within those systems are "subsystems". As a example, subsystems of "Chuan Fa" would be the "Gaylord Method", and the "Ramos Method".

A lot of creativity and change happened when instructors left Hawaii, and lost touch with the "Original Method" (not like now where everything can be videod and passed on).

Kajukenbo was evolving in the 60s-70s to a more "Chinese methodology".
Chuan Fa was the first evolution, with more Kung Fu techniques, and Chinese terminology. It was developed at Sijo Emperado's request by Al Delacruz and Al Dacascos.
The idea at the time was that Kajukenbo would eventually evolve to the point that it was primarily a Chinese art. More Kung Fu and Chin-na were added to the Chuan Fa to create "Won Hop Kuen Do". That was basically going to be the name for Kajukenbo in Chinese. "Won Hop Kuen Do = in Chinese "combined fist arts".
Anyway, there was resistance to change by some of the old timers who wanted to keep the hard style "Original Method". And several Hawaiian instructors had spread the Original Method around the world thru their military travels, so it just would not die.
But Chuan Fa was also spreading.
And Won Hop Kuen Do, with champions like Al Dacascos, Malia Dacascos, Mark Dacascos, Eric Lee, Karen Shepard, and Karyn Turner, was spreading around America and Europe also.
So at this point there is various styles of Kajukenbo in about 25 countries.

 

[Danjo]

What style did Karazenpo derive from, and what are the main differences between KJKB and it?

 

[John Bishop]

What style did Karazenpo derive from, and what are the main differences between KJKB and it?

It came from the "Original Method". The other branches didn't start developing until the late 60s.

I've haven't seen much Karazenpo or Shaolin Kenpo techniques. And there were many innovations that went into Kajukenbo since Sonny Gascon broke away, so I can't make much of a comparison.
Their's really no quality Karazempo instructors in my area (L.A Co./Orange Co.), so I don't have anyone to check with. You have to be careful when looking at Karazenpo instructors. A lot of them got their training in a offshoot system, and then joined the Karazenpo BBS. Their quality may be excellent, but their techniques may not be Karazenpo.
Since you've trained in Shaolin Kempo, make some visits and check out the Karazenpo people. Like any organization, there are a few flakes in the system, one big one being in Orange County. Feel free to email me if you need to check anyone out.

 

[Karazenpo]

Danjo, the farther from the source one goes, the more dilution of the original art you have, which could be good, could be bad, but one thing is for certain, it's not the original art. Then again, you won't find any totally original art out there today period, in any system, due to the human factor of change which creates individual stylistic differences. Look at the older traditonal systems, on the Karate section of this forum someone had posted that at a tournament they saw Bassai performed four radically different ways. Here's what I can tell you from personal experience as far as KGS goes. Sonny Gascon, KGS's fouinder, taught George Pesare and George Pesare taught Nick Cerio who in turn taught Fred Villari and the rest is history. Villari left Cerio in '71 before the advent of Nick Cerio's Kenpo. The Shaolin Kempo Villari taught up to black belt level, actually around 2nd dan (Villari made up to 2nd under Cerio but parted ways before the completion of his one year probation, so he's listed as a shodan in one of Cerio's books) is a mildly modified version of Karazenpo, after that Villari's Kempo took a strong Kung Fu twist which started with the form Sho Tung Kwok. Hansuki was adopted from the Chow/Chun connection of Goshinjitsu Kai Chinese Kempo. Swift Tigers was inspired by Pesare's #7 kata, other than that, it's all Villari's system at that point. Anyone who made black belt in Shaolin Kempo the 70's and even the early 80's and possibly a little beyond, has about as close as you're going to come outside of going back to George Pesare. I will venture to say the Villari schools probably still teach the same curriculum to black belt as they did in the 70's but I'd have to check. I first studied at Gm. Pesare's school in 1978, all original forms and Pesare's original 21 combinations were included in the Villari curriculum with very little modification and I'll even go back to circa. 1960, for I have sen old black & white films of this early Karazenpo first from Prof. Cerio in 1992 and later (2003), a different film from Gm. Pesare. Remember, Danjo, early or 'original' Karazenpo did not have the vast curriculum it has expanded into today, neither did Kajukenbo. So, if you asking 'original' then it is included in Shaolin Kempo. The same forms in SK that my instructor and I needed back in the 70's to make black belt are still the requirements today along with almost all the numerical combinations (we needed 1-21, 26 & 28, now the 'standard' to black is 1-26). As far as the current USSD (Mattera's organization) goes, I had access to two of their training manuels form different years and there is very, very little difference in the curriculum up to black belt as what Cerio taught Villari and Villari carried on, not at all enough to call it a different system.

In closing, I think the problem is not the techniques and/or the forms but the actual training methods and promotions. Yes, many of the 'newer' instructors may be teaching only the 'surface arts' because of the quick rise through the ranks and not enough honing of the skills to fill instructor slots but please keep this in mind also. The much older instructors of karate styles in this country and I mean starting in 1946 into the 60's, including U.S. servicemen, ONLY had training in the 'surface arts' and also experienced a 'rather' quick rise in ranks when they began teaching and promoting black belts in this country. Look how many have become UNDISPUTED champions and legends through self development over the many decades! We seem to either forget this or want to forget this, I don't know which but it's certainly fact. Something to think about....................