The Original Curiculum of Kajukenbo/Karazenpo

[GAB]

Hi all,

Thanks for the information Joe and John...Happy New Year to you and yours...

John, to conspire or "Conspiracy Theory" would be for one, to go to a publisher. Then the two would write a book, or to have some secret. I believe it takes several to conspire...

I guess I am just very inquisitive and ask questions. If someone does not want to tell me, they don't, is it wrong or is it curiosity?

They Conspired to evolve a new Martial Art.

Is that bad or good? Or would you say they got together to develop a way of fighting so they could beat up the other gangs? Was that unlawful?

Or would you say they got together to develop the art for the betterment of society?

I know the Catholic Church until very recently felt the Freemasons were bad because they had secret meetings, well so do the Catholic's...

Whose Ox is getting gored?

The word comes from Latin, 'together' and to 'breathe'.

Freemasonry has been on the other side of the Catholics ever since the Church took away the money they had and killed anyone who was not Catholic.
The Freemasons were behind numerous rebellions against the Catholic Church during the time of the Spanish conquests. Cuba, Phillipines, Mexico...

1492 is a date the Jewish will never forget and it is not because Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

I think the reason conspiracy gets a bad rap is because they use it so much to bring down the bad guys.

Or maybe the people who are in charge are really not all that honest themselves and figure everyone who gets together is conspiring???

Just some stuff that was wandering around up in the frontal lobe when I read the slight you made.

Happy Holiday...

Regards, Gary

 

[John Bishop]

Hi all,

Thanks for the information Joe and John...Happy New Year to you and yours...

John, to conspire or "Conspiracy Theory" would be for one, to go to a publisher. Then the two would write a book, or to have some secret. I believe it takes several to conspire...

I guess I am just very inquisitive and ask questions. If someone does not want to tell me, they don't, is it wrong or is it curiosity?

They Conspired to evolve a new Martial Art.

Is that bad or good? Or would you say they got together to develop a way of fighting so they could beat up the other gangs? Was that unlawful?

Or would you say they got together to develop the art for the betterment of society?

I know the Catholic Church until very recently felt the Freemasons were bad because they had secret meetings, well so do the Catholic's...

Whose Ox is getting gored?

The word comes from Latin, 'together' and to 'breathe'.

Freemasonry has been on the other side of the Catholics ever since the Church took away the money they had and killed anyone who was not Catholic.
The Freemasons were behind numerous rebellions against the Catholic Church during the time of the Spanish conquests. Cuba, Phillipines, Mexico...

1492 is a date the Jewish will never forget and it is not because Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

I think the reason conspiracy gets a bad rap is because they use it so much to bring down the bad guys.

Or maybe the people who are in charge are really not all that honest themselves and figure everyone who gets together is conspiring???

Just some stuff that was wandering around up in the frontal lobe when I read the slight you made.

Happy Holiday...

Regards, Gary

First it's Bill Gates, Microsoft, Apple. Now it's the Free Masons and the Catholic Church.:idunno:

Somewhere in here is supposed to be something that has to do with martial arts:idunno: ??

 

[GAB]

First it's Bill Gates, Microsoft, Apple. Now it's the Free Masons and the Catholic Church.:idunno:

Somewhere in here is supposed to be something that has to do with martial arts:idunno: ??

Hi John.

Yes, I can see your point.

I guess the synaptic junctions are miss firing or????:idunno: Or as Doc once said, get back on your meds...LOL

Happy Holiday

Regards, Gary

Ps. I will check out the stuff you relayed. Thanks...

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

Hi John.

Yes, I can see your point.

I guess the synaptic junctions are miss firing or????:idunno: Or as Doc once said, get back on your meds...LOL

Happy Holiday

Regards, Gary

Ps. I will check out the stuff you relayed. Thanks...

Stay like you are Gary, I loved your conspriacy comparisons, I just don't want to meet you if you're wearing a foil hat LOL.

DarK LorD

 

[GAB]

Stay like you are Gary, I loved your conspriacy comparisons, I just don't want to meet you if you're wearing a foil hat LOL.

DarK LorD

DarK LorD

Happy New Year, Glad to hear from you.

Regards, Gary:btg:

 

[kelly keltner]

Hi all,

Thanks for the information Joe and John...Happy New Year to you and yours...

John, to conspire or "Conspiracy Theory" would be for one, to go to a publisher. Then the two would write a book, or to have some secret. I believe it takes several to conspire...

I guess I am just very inquisitive and ask questions. If someone does not want to tell me, they don't, is it wrong or is it curiosity?

They Conspired to evolve a new Martial Art.

Is that bad or good? Or would you say they got together to develop a way of fighting so they could beat up the other gangs? Was that unlawful?

Or would you say they got together to develop the art for the betterment of society?

I know the Catholic Church until very recently felt the Freemasons were bad because they had secret meetings, well so do the Catholic's...

Whose Ox is getting gored?

The word comes from Latin, 'together' and to 'breathe'.

Freemasonry has been on the other side of the Catholics ever since the Church took away the money they had and killed anyone who was not Catholic.
The Freemasons were behind numerous rebellions against the Catholic Church during the time of the Spanish conquests. Cuba, Phillipines, Mexico...

1492 is a date the Jewish will never forget and it is not because Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

I think the reason conspiracy gets a bad rap is because they use it so much to bring down the bad guys.

Or maybe the people who are in charge are really not all that honest themselves and figure everyone who gets together is conspiring???

Just some stuff that was wandering around up in the frontal lobe when I read the slight you made.

Happy Holiday...

Regards, Gary

Oh boy conspiracy!
For those of us in Ca. It's covered by sec. 182 of the Ca. Penal code.
OOOh I said code.
Under what has been implied might be covered more accuratley under CPC 182.5 maybe CPC 184 "acts effectuating Conspiracy."

lol ha ha
Just kidding fellas
Hey whose been followin me?
Like a good friend of mine said "I quit going to football games cause I know they're talkin about me in the huddle.

kelly

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

Hi all,


1492 is a date the Jewish will never forget and it is not because Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

I think the reason conspiracy gets a bad rap is because they use it so much to bring down the bad guys.

Or maybe the people who are in charge are really not all that honest themselves and figure everyone who gets together is conspiring???

Just some stuff that was wandering around up in the frontal lobe when I read the slight you made.

Happy Holiday...

Regards, Gary

Wow, never knew of those events Gary, thanks for the reference, learn something new everyday.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/expulsion.html

DArK LorD

 

[GAB]

Wow, never knew of those events Gary, thanks for the reference, learn something new everyday.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/expulsion.html

DArK LorD

Hi,

Thank you for finding the site and posting it. Some are much better at this internet surfing than me...

Hi Kel,

You are so right about those guys in that huddle LOL... Boy I am going to have to brush up on the code, now that you have one.

It is'nt the conspiricy that gets you it is plotting the crime...Wait that is redundant.

They could not prove "Murder" so they went for conspiracy to commit.
It is especially good when you have the perp turn and say everyone else did it, when they get thru talking they get to walking...Never cared for snitch's.

To bad the system has to rely on them so much, funny they will convict on them and not DNA...Oh well, another time and place.

How is Robert Blake doing have'nt heard much on him. I believe he used to hang around the (Sifu Leoning) dojo on Lankershim in North Hollywood in the 60's. I am not sure about the one on Burbank Blvd. though.

Here is a real coincidence. Nudies was a place all western people and actors went. He was originally on Burbank Blvd. right in the same area as the first dojo, (Gascon and Leoning) then he moved and was right next to the other one on Lankershim Blvd. Hmmmmm I wonder????

I wonder if they conspired (Leoning and Gascon), or if it was the three who visited in the night????:idunno:

Anyone know???

Happy New year.

Regards, Gary

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

Hi,

Thank you for finding the site and posting it. Some are much better at this internet surfing than me...


Happy New year.

Regards, Gary

Here's another off your list

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/masonry4.htm

DarK LorD

 

[GAB]

Here's another off your list

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/masonry4.htm

DarK LorD

Hi DarK LorD,

You are full of information, thanks.

Anyone as condemmed or condammed by those can't be all bad. LOL

Check out the Boston Tea party, and the rise of the new America...

Those Mason's were a bunch of conspirators.

What is interesting is, if you look at most of the Post Office Buildings around, they were conspiring there also.

Look at the Presidents in the last couple of decades and the early ones.

Hmmm...are we going forward or backward? Roots baby! Got to be scaring a few around the edges.

Check out the Shriners...Do you see any ties binding there??? Whats with those knives and swords???

Regards, Gary

 

[kelly keltner]

Oh boy conspiracy!
For those of us in Ca. It's covered by sec. 182 of the Ca. Penal code.
OOOh I said code.
Under what has been implied might be covered more accuratley under CPC 182.5 maybe CPC 184 "acts effectuating Conspiracy."

lol ha ha
Just kidding fellas
Hey whose been followin me?
Like a good friend of mine said "I quit going to football games cause I know they're talkin about me in the huddle.

kelly

Hey GAB, What about the RICO federeral statutes, continuing criminal enterprises and the like?
Ha Ha LOL

 

[kelly keltner]

Hi DarK LorD,

You are full of information, thanks.

Anyone as condemmed or condammed by those can't be all bad. LOL

Check out the Boston Tea party, and the rise of the new America...

Those Mason's were a bunch of conspirators.

What is interesting is, if you look at most of the Post Office Buildings around, they were conspiring there also.

Look at the Presidents in the last couple of decades and the early ones.

Hmmm...are we going forward or backward? Roots baby! Got to be scaring a few around the edges.

Check out the Shriners...Do you see any ties binding there??? Whats with those knives and swords???

Regards, Gary

Oh no not the Masons, not the blue lodge, 33 degrees, secret handshakes?
Boston Tea party, American revolution,founding fathers
Shriners, swords and fez's
Shriners children hospitals, They do good work they took good care of a cousin of mine who lost a foot in an accident.

Gee without conspiracy we might not have a country.

kelly

 

[Danjo]

Are the Combinations (Defensive Maneuvers in USSD lingo) found in Shaolin Kempo originally from Kajukenbo, or are they from Karazenpo? Which are the same and different etc.? How about the katas?

 

[Karazenpo]

Are the Combinations (Defensive Maneuvers in USSD lingo) found in Shaolin Kempo originally from Kajukenbo, or are they from Karazenpo? Which are the same and different etc.? How about the katas?

Yes, some of the combinations of Karazenpo were taken from the original 21 punch counters of Kajukenbo and some were created for Karazenpo but inspired from Kajukenbo and the influences of John Leoning, Victor Gascon and Walter Godin (Godin also studied under Chow). As far as which are the same and different, I'd have to really go through the Kajukenbo material and match it up to the Karazenpo. Off hand, from recent discussions I've had, Shaolin Kempo's #6 combination is found in Kajukenbo and is basically the same as Karazenpo's original #1 when I was with G. Pesare back in '78 (he has since re-numbered and changed some of the combinations). I forget what punch counter # it corresponds to in Kajukenbo, I'd have to check the video I got from John Bishop. Shaolin Kempo's #4 combination is, I think #6 in Kajukenbo (not sure) but I know it's in there with an outward block instead of overhead. Essentially, 1-20, 22 & 26 minus 17 are found in the Karazenpo of New England. Cerio added everything else up to I believe around 39. He may have added #16 also, can't remember. SK's 1-5 kata came directly from Karazenpo of Gascon/Godin, Statue of the Crane was adopted to the system by Pesare form Okinawan's Rohai and katas 6 and 7 were created by Pesare with #6 being a series of the original combinations put together and #7 was created from a drill which inspired SK's Swift Tigers & NCK's Circle of the Panther. Some have said the original KGS forms (1-5) were inspired by the original 8 forms of Kajukenbo, others say the first 6 but regardless they are definitely different and indigneous to Karazenpo, except for #4). As a matter of fact, #4 was inspired by Okinawan Kenpo's Pinan #1 which is Shotokan's Heian 2. I know it gets a little confusing to say the least....lol

 

[GAB]

The perils of publishing

Once upon a time there were relatively few books, no videos/dvd's. So when you wanted to study a art, you went to an instructor of that art. Even if you already were a martial artist, you had to study with a senior of a given art.
What happened, videos came out everybody could now do thier own thing without ever leaving thier tv!
Without producing a lot of media on your style you insure
1.) Control, you know who and where things are being tought
2.() Chain of command, everybody has a senior
there are advantages to publishing and to not publishing
Todd

Hi Kai,

I agree with you LOL...

I am a very interested party in the information I am trying to find, regarding several items. I am getting input and following it up...Thanks.

Regards, Gary

 

[BallistikMike]

I'm not sure about all the techniques from the 50s-60's. But by the end of the 60s there were: 14 Palama Sets, 21 Punch Counters, 15 Grab Arts, 13 Club Counters, 15 Knife Counters, 26 Alphabets, 8 Two Man Counters, 6 Three Man Counters, 1 Four Man Counter.

Mr. Bishop,

From the 1st page lol

I finally obtained the original tape set of Gary Forbach from Panther Videos. Is there a written syllabus that goes through these tapes any where or would it be possible to get one that corresponds with the curriculum you outlined earlier to know what is missing if anything. I know the tapes only go to 1st BB.

Thankyou.


This has been a very good research project I put on myself. I am glad I have done it. I think I am going to expand it to involve Mr. Ed Parkers self-defense techniques also.

With the amount of knowledge the senior members of all the systems have who post here, I feel very privlidged they take the time to answer and debat unkowns such as myself.

Granted my own beliefs and shortcomings may get the better of me in some situations, I do know I am but a rookie amongst pros.

 

[James Kovacich]

GAB:
One individual in the 50s-60s-70s wrote little "how to" martial arts paperbacks on almost every martial art know to western man.

Bruce Tegner according to his bio in his books if I remember correctly learned Karate, Ju Jitsu and Aikido from his parents. At that time (when he first started writing) the western world's general public hardly new anything about martial arts. He would of been considered an expert in "his field."

20's years later in the '70's, I think he would have been even more experienced. And some people are better writers than martial artists and given the "time frame" of American martial arts and the fact that he wrote about a fairly "fresh" subject to the public, I think he did a good job. :uhyeah:

 

[Karazenpo]

GAB:
One individual in the 50s-60s-70s wrote little "how to" martial arts paperbacks on almost every martial art know to western man. QUOTE]

Bruce Tegner according to his bio in his books if I remember correctly learned Karate, Ju Jitsu and Aikido from his parents. At that time (when he first started writing) the western world's general public hardly new anything about martial arts. He would of been considered an expert in "his field."

20's years later in the '70's, I think he would have been even more experienced. And some people are better writers than martial artists and given the "time frame" of American martial arts and the fact that he wrote about a fairly "fresh" subject to the public, I think he did a good job. :uhyeah:

Actually, I have his books from that era, I think he did a pretty good job myself! As KenpoJoe says: "The one eyed man is king in the land of the blind."

 

[James Kovacich]

Actually, I have his books from that era, I think he did a pretty good job myself! As KenpoJoe says: "The one eyed man is king in the land of the blind."

I do too!
I still look at his Aikido book from time to time.

 

[Karazenpo]

I do too!
I still look at his Aikido book from time to time.

Ya, lol, every once in great while I take a look through them too, some good stuff to build a base around back then, as good if not better (as you said) then most on the shelves at that time.