The Miraculous Power of Fasting

[Gyakuto]

I think few American’s diets give them the RDA of everything unless they’re really careful about it. I’m amazed at how many people are deficient in Vit D for example! Indoor lifestyles, a lack of green leafy vegetables etc. A few days without food isn’t going to deplete ones vitamins etc. If you exclusively eat burgers, pizzas, chips (french fries)…with cheese, then you're in trouble (I’m hungry now).

I think the mantra is ‘be sensible’. Eat a balanced diet, exercise for weeks, then try fasting for 12hrs, then 14hrs and gradually increase the duration until you’re able to levitate and slightly glow in dim light!

By-the-way, do you from where some of the data for RDA of vitamins etc originally came? Who, in the early 20th Century, were fine about differentially starving humans? Truly awful, but those data help people now.

We had a famous scientist in the U.K. called Magnus Pike, who fulfilled all the stereotypes of the avuncular mad scientist-do look him up. During WW2 he was charged with working out the optimal nutrition for people as part the war effort. He claimed that when working out the iron content of spinach, his team got the decimal point in the wrong place and it was falsely claimed to have ten times as much iron as it actually does! Thus, Popeye was strong in-spite of eating spinach!

And I’m sure you know the story of carrots being ‘good for night vision‘ was to hide the fact, that the allied forces had RADAR!

 

[Unkogami]

There are actually a lot of risks associated with not consuming food, and it doesn't have to be weeks.

Daily food consumption is part of the natural cycle. Not eating for a day is probably fine. Beyond 24 hours, caution is warranted. Blood sugar can plummet, dehydration can set in, cortisol levels can spike, sleep can be disrupted, and migraine headaches can set in.

One of the worst things I've experienced from a total food fast (3 days) was intense stomach acid. Without anything to digest, acid levels can get really high and cause vomiting, which also leads to things like dehydration.

So I'd caution saying it's "proven" to improve health and lengthen life. Depending on the individual, there are a range of issues that can crop up. Fasting from certain things (sugar, alcohol, fried food) is probably a lot safer than not eating anything for days. Avoiding food entirely is considered an extreme diet.

Not to mention, most people fast to lose weight, and it's just not an effective way of doing that.

You might want to check some of your information there.

 

[Oily Dragon]

You might want to check some of your information there.

Which part? It all checks out, and our resident doctor just concurred.

What do you not concur with?

 

[Unkogami]

Intermittent Fasting: What is it, and how does it work?

Intermittent fasting involves switching between fasting and eating on a regular schedule. This type of fasting could manage your weight or even some forms of disease through these safe practices.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

 

[Dirty Dog]

You might want to check some of your information there.

OK, let's look at what he said....

There are actually a lot of risks associated with not consuming food, and it doesn't have to be weeks.

This is factually correct.

Daily food consumption is part of the natural cycle. Not eating for a day is probably fine. Beyond 24 hours, caution is warranted. Blood sugar can plummet, dehydration can set in, cortisol levels can spike, sleep can be disrupted, and migraine headaches can set in.

Also factually correct.

One of the worst things I've experienced from a total food fast (3 days) was intense stomach acid. Without anything to digest, acid levels can get really high and cause vomiting, which also leads to things like dehydration.

That's his own personal experience, so unless you're claiming he's lying about it, it has to be considered correct.

So I'd caution saying it's "proven" to improve health and lengthen life. Depending on the individual, there are a range of issues that can crop up. Fasting from certain things (sugar, alcohol, fried food) is probably a lot safer than not eating anything for days. Avoiding food entirely is considered an extreme diet.

Also correct. Any diet that says "completely stop xxxx" is unlikely to be sustainable.

Not to mention, most people fast to lose weight, and it's just not an effective way of doing that.

Also true. Fasting is a terrible way to lose weight.
What part of his post do you object to?

 

[Oily Dragon]

Intermittent Fasting: What is it, and how does it work?

Intermittent fasting involves switching between fasting and eating on a regular schedule. This type of fasting could manage your weight or even some forms of disease through these safe practices.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

O.

That part!

There's a big difference between intermittent fasting and starvation.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Intermittent Fasting: What is it, and how does it work?

Intermittent fasting involves switching between fasting and eating on a regular schedule. This type of fasting could manage your weight or even some forms of disease through these safe practices.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

Did you actually read this? Because it doesn't seem to support your position. It advocates periods of fasting that are always less than 24 hours. No more than 16 hours. Which, according to you, isn't even fasting. It also specifically argues AGAINST fasting for periods of 24 hours or more, and points out the dangers of doing so.

 

[Instructor]

"Let food be your medicine, and medicine be your food" Hippocrates

I've been on vacation for a week and deliberately left my computer at home; although I did cheat and pop into Martial Talk once or twice with my cell phone. I am not surprised by the turn this thread took. You see these same conversations taking place just about anywhere fasting is discussed.

In my life, intermittent fasting and occasional prolonged fasting have been a complete game changer. I am healthier, happier, more balanced, and more in control of my urges and cravings. While I haven't really lost massive amounts of weight (about 30 pounds total) my weight is stable and hasn't risen from year to year like it was before fasting.

I've also experienced some of the negative side effects mentioned like acid reflux. I was diagnosed with Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease (GERD) a long time before I ever tried fasting. It's a condition I picked up in the service.

While I was at sea I didn't have much control over what was available to eat or when I was allowed to eat. Combine that with a high stress job on a ship that is constantly rolling and it gave me heartburn and reflux that persisted long after I returned to land. I used to take medications for this but the meds were stripping me of magnesium and I started to experience hair loss. Before I started fasting I gave up the meds and radically changed my diet to include more leafy greens and much less processed food. I also purchased a bed that I can tilt/incline. These two lifestyle changes alone fixed the GERD.

When I started fasting I did occasionally experience reflux, especially during periods of heightened stress. But doing the things to relieve that stress, such as exercise, breathing, meditating, etc. helped mitigate it. Now that I fast routinely I seldom experience any kind of negative symptoms like reflux.

Personally I think the trouble with living in the first world is we think we should always be completely comfortable, sated, and happy. If at any time we are the slightest bit hungry, or unhappy, or even uncomfortable, well they have a pill for that. We as a people grow steadily more reliant on chemicals and medications.

But the science is showing more and more that occasionally it is healthier to restrict caloric intake and to be a little bit colder or hotter than you might otherwise choose to be. Every species that has been tested lived longer with caloric restriction. I realize that doesn't necessarily mean fasting but it is one way to get there.

https://www.truenorthhealthfoundation.org/sites/default/files/docs/magazine_article/Safety%2C%20Health%20and%20Well-Being%20During%20Periodic%20Fasting.pdf

https://www.scielo.br/j/clin/a/fHZxg8ZbRY59Fnwy7sgcDjP/?format=pdf

 

[Gyakuto]

In the West, especially the USA and U.K., food habits are driven by the big food industries who want to push sugar and carbohydrate rich food and meat down our throats.

There was an interesting programme about Kellog on television last night and it was interesting to see how it’s CEO, senior managers and it’s nutritionists skilfully evaded the question of high sugar-content in it’s foods. “We’ve reduced it by 40%” but wouldn’t talk about actual amounts per serving in their cereals. 40% of a bucket-load of sugar is still over half a bucket-load. Plus the carb-rich cereals are broken down to simple sugars by the gut.

We probably need to reduce our total food consumption by a half (my speculation) with occasional total abstinence… ice baths, rub-downs with hessian cloths and early nights after reading the spiritual/science book of our choice

 

[Dirty Dog]

40% of a bucket-load of sugar is still over half a bucket-load.

Ummmm.... maybe a math tutor is in order?

 

[chiquest]

The benefit from intermittent fasting is the activation of autophagy ("self-devouring" or "self-eating"), in which the healthy cells eliminate worn-out or dying cells. When combined with mTOR (which promotes cellular growth), the result can be optimum health if there is a proper balance of the two. Anthropologist and fitness guru, Siim Land, designed a detailed intermittent fasting regime that achieves that balance. He fasts everyday for 20-22 hours followed by strength training, then eats one meal high in protein and vegetables in a two hour eating window before returning to a fasted state. He has an impressive, ripped muscular physique, so it seems to be working for him. He details his procedure on his website, How to Balance Autophagy and mTOR for Longevity and Muscle Growth - Siim Land Blog. There are other methods of intermittent fasting that also strive to optimize health which are different than Siim Land's, but 16 hours is the recommended minimum length for fasting in most of the methods. Also, the fasting includes the sleep cycle.

 

[Instructor]

The benefit from intermittent fasting is the activation of autophagy ("self-devouring" or "self-eating"), in which the healthy cells eliminate worn-out or dying cells. When combined with mTOR (which promotes cellular growth), the result can be optimum health if there is a proper balance of the two. Anthropologist and fitness guru, Siim Land, designed a detailed intermittent fasting regime that achieves that balance. He fasts everyday for 20-22 hours followed by strength training, then eats one meal high in protein and vegetables in a two hour eating window before returning to a fasted state. He has an impressive, ripped muscular physique, so it seems to be working for him. He details his procedure on his website, How to Balance Autophagy and mTOR for Longevity and Muscle Growth - Siim Land Blog. There are other methods of intermittent fasting that also strive to optimize health which are different than Siim Land's, but 16 hours is the recommended minimum length for fasting in most of the methods. Also, the fasting includes the sleep cycle.

Very informative link. I've read a lot about all of the facets of the epigenetic life extension and not ashamed to say I'm still trying to wrap my mind around it. Noticed you joined MT way back in 09, welcome back.

 

[chiquest]

I don't contribute as much as I could, but have always read the posts.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The benefit from intermittent fasting is the activation of autophagy ("self-devouring" or "self-eating"), in which the healthy cells eliminate worn-out or dying cells. When combined with mTOR (which promotes cellular growth), the result can be optimum health if there is a proper balance of the two. Anthropologist and fitness guru, Siim Land, designed a detailed intermittent fasting regime that achieves that balance. He fasts everyday for 20-22 hours followed by strength training, then eats one meal high in protein and vegetables in a two hour eating window before returning to a fasted state. He has an impressive, ripped muscular physique, so it seems to be working for him. He details his procedure on his website, How to Balance Autophagy and mTOR for Longevity and Muscle Growth - Siim Land Blog. There are other methods of intermittent fasting that also strive to optimize health which are different than Siim Land's, but 16 hours is the recommended minimum length for fasting in most of the methods. Also, the fasting includes the sleep cycle.

I think the problem with any example of how fasting works is that human bodies are incredibly variable. One person may get best results with this kind of extreme intermittent fasting (this being about the largest gap you can get with daily fasting), while another person's body may have a bad reaction to 12-hour gaps (in my 20's, that big a gap was a real problem).

Have you found any source that guides on how to find a fasting regimen that works for an individual, as opposed to simply instructing on how to follow a specific regimen?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

While I'm thinking of it, has anyone looked into research studies of different intermittent fasting approaches with different populations? I haven't ever gotten around to looking for papers (my "want to research" list is always longer than I'll ever have time to complete), so I'm hoping someone already found some papers worth looking at.

 

[Unkogami]

I think the problem with any example of how fasting works is that human bodies are incredibly variable. One person may get best results with this kind of extreme intermittent fasting (this being about the largest gap you can get with daily fasting), while another person's body may have a bad reaction to 12-hour gaps (in my 20's, that big a gap was a real problem).

Have you found any source that guides on how to find a fasting regimen that works for an individual, as opposed to simply instructing on how to follow a specific regimen?

When I was in my 20s I would go 4-5 days with no food or water while training 8 + hours a day, working 6-8 hours a day and taking a double load of classes. Yeah, I'm paying the price now.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

When I was in my 20s I would go 4-5 days with no food or water while training 8 + hours a day, working 6-8 hours a day and taking a double load of classes. Yeah, I'm paying the price now.

If I'd gone a full day without food back then, I'd have been unable to function. I'd get light-headed if I didn't eat regularly. And by "regularly", I mean way more often than I should have needed. At 30, I ate everything I could get my hands on (ice cream covered with half-and-half was a common dessert for me), and had single-digit body fat. It was fun being able to eat like that, but not fun _needing_ to eat like that.

 

[punisher73]

If it's not at least a full day, it's not a fast. It's just "being a little hungry."

As Dirty Dog pointed out, we literally call the first meal of the day "break fast" because you are breaking your fast. It's not semantics.

There are various types of fasts and almost all major religions incorporate them.

Just a couple types of the top of my head from various religions.
1) Sunrise until sundown (Ramadan, Ash Wednesday use this type)
2) Full day (24 hours or more)
3) Multiple day (3, 7, 21 days)

Many doctors define "fasting" for medical procedures as a 12 hour period.

Just because you define it differently, doesn't mean that there aren't other accepted definitions and methods of fasting.

 

[Instructor]

If I'd gone a full day without food back then, I'd have been unable to function. I'd get light-headed if I didn't eat regularly. And by "regularly", I mean way more often than I should have needed. At 30, I ate everything I could get my hands on (ice cream covered with half-and-half was a common dessert for me), and had single-digit body fat. It was fun being able to eat like that, but not fun _needing_ to eat like that.

I'm no doctor, just a dumb Hapkido teacher, but if you are eating a lot of carbs routinely like ice cream (and hey when you are young and full of piss and vinegar why not) then your blood chemistry is spiked constantly with insulin because your body is just trying to keep you alive. Your body gets adapted to that quick easy sugar as food and is happy to convert it to fat but seldom needs to convert the fat back into glucose for cellular function. Thus when you cut the sugar off you feel like crap because you aren't adapted to using fat for fuel.

Just so you know, during a fast you won't always feel very good. Autophagy in particular can give you headaches, nausea, and other not fun feelings. If your body encapsulated a toxin ten years ago (and it probably made you feel like crap then) and then autophagy opens that encapsulated toxin up again to get rid of it, you get to experience the toxin all over again.

 

[Instructor]

I think the problem with any example of how fasting works is that human bodies are incredibly variable. One person may get best results with this kind of extreme intermittent fasting (this being about the largest gap you can get with daily fasting), while another person's body may have a bad reaction to 12-hour gaps (in my 20's, that big a gap was a real problem).

Have you found any source that guides on how to find a fasting regimen that works for an individual, as opposed to simply instructing on how to follow a specific regimen?

Dr. Pelz talks about it on YouTube occasionally and she usually backs up her position with studies. I don't have what you are looking for handy but I'll keep an eye out for it. One thing she recommends is to vary your fast and vary your diet often. If you just do OMAD/Keto for example or 2MAD/Vegan or something your metabolism adapts to it and your gains diminish. By switching things up routinely you can keep it guessing, it seems to help. So you could do a month OMAD/Paleo, a month 2MAD/Mediterranean, a month normal three meals a day/keto, a month OMAD/carnivore, and etc.

One upside to trying all these different things is that you are essentially experimenting on yourself and you can begin to intuit what works well for you and what doesn't.