Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
absolutely brilliantly stated, Mark. Sometimes my fellow citizens of this potentially great nation are an embarrassment.
The Evil of Being Wealthy
- Thread starter Bill Mattocks
- Start date
absolutely brilliantly stated, Mark. Sometimes my fellow citizens of this potentially great nation are an embarrassment.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
i feel the same way FC everytime someone expects something for nothing
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Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Well I would but it is likely you would tell me brain is as dry as the remainder biscuit after a voyage which would escalate the already declared war from the Declaration of Independence thread and likely it would not end well and you would end with saying Methink'st thou art a general offence and every man should beat thee.
But in the end What's done is done and I desire you in friendship, and I will one way or other make you amends.
So lets not go there
:chuckles: Verily that is most meat to my fancy, good sirrah. For thy wit does rise with the tide and crack forth upon the rocks of hubris most mighty, tearing asunder their particles,seeming solid fast to a man's eyes, with writhing tenticles, alike to a Kraken in their puissance.
Or something like that ... meaning that I like your sense of humour too and would never knowingly endanger our good fellowship :bows with a smile:.
Or something like that ... meaning that I like your sense of humour too and would never knowingly endanger our good fellowship :bows with a smile:.
JohnEdward
2nd Black Belt
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At first after I read that, I thought OMG another hack renfair reject geek spouting off some hack fake medieval gibberish, to get his geek thrill. Then I look up at to whom wrote it and thought aw ****, it's for real! He is British and it is the genuine stuff, damn do I feel stupid! :lol:
Empty Hands
Senior Master
That's below the poverty line. If that's middle class, what constitutes poor?
'I don't believe it'... Twin Fist AKA Victor Meldrow!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QKAbuoB24U&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbD21z1VnGg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QKAbuoB24U&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbD21z1VnGg&feature=related
It finally clicked for me when I realized that I couldn't just stop paying for the wars and the military industrial complex that I so vehemently disagree with. If I stop paying, the government sends some goons with guns to throw me in a rape cage and steal any property I might have acquired. Taxation is force. Taxation is armed robbery. It doesn't matter if you agree with it or not, there is a gun in the room and you only have one choice and the pitiful dumbed down mob gets to make that choice for you. At a fundamental level, the system is immoral.
Should we figure out a voluntary system of supporting people in need? Absolutely! People get down on their luck and need help. Should we rob Peter to help Paul? It's that simple.
When we start robbing people for the "greater good" eventually the word "good" gets propagandized by the worst people in society until it completely loses meaning.
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Steve
Mostly Harmless
If the information Twin Fist has volunteered is true, he's in a very economically depressed area. The population is 50% white, 30% black, 16% Hispanic/Latino and the rest is "other." the median family income in Nacocdoches is just over $24,000. The poverty level in the USA for 2011 is $22,350. When Twin Fist talks about poverty, about income, about taxes and about taking care of oneself with little income, he's doing so from the perspective of someone who technically earns below the poverty level (according to him), but also lives in an area where pretty much EVERYONE lives at close to the poverty level.
I am in no way disparaging Twin Fist or where he lives. I'm strictly pointing out that we all live within our means, and everyone here is filtering based upon the cost of living in their area.
Point is simply this. We have to remember the context of statements that are made. If you earn $11,000 in a year in Nacogdoches, you might not drive a Ferrari, but you can get by.
In Seattle, you will not survive on $11k/year unless you have other resources. Whether those resources are multiple roommates, savings, a trust account, the bank of Mom and Dad... something. Without those other resources, you will necessarily be looking into some kind of public assistance.
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miguksaram
Master of Arts
If you are going to use the term tax evasion then we are almost all guilty of it in way or another. If you have kids and mark them down as dependents you are evading taxes, by your use of the wording. If you claim charities on your taxes, then you are evading taxes. So if it is wrong for the wealthy to do such things (meaning finding more loopholes to avoid taxes), then it should be held the same for everyone.
Then don't purchase their wares or deposit money in their institution
Yes, but by doing that, they keep more of their money do other things such as support the many charities they are involved in. (http://www.looktothestars.org/celebrity/245-u2).
Steve
Mostly Harmless
I disagree with this. You are referring to three different things: loopholes, deductions and tax evasion.
Deductions are legal and are simply a way to determine how much I owe in taxes. I'm in no way evading taxes by taking a lawful deduction. Rather, I'm correctly calculating the amount I owe.
Evasion is not paying taxes due, and is illegal. If, after taking any lawful deductions, I owe $100 and only pay $10, I'm guilty of evasion.
Loopholes are a little less concrete, but here's my definition. A loophole is a deduction that is legal, but is contrary to the spirit and intent of that deduction. My opinion is that you know when you're exploiting a loophole and when you aren't. Closing loopholes is ONE reason that our tax code is so complex. CREATING loopholes is another.
miguksaram
Master of Arts
Yes I know there is a difference, however, I am referring to the way the OP used the term tax evasion. She insinuated, or perhaps I assumed she meant, that the rich are "evading taxes", by using the opportunities of loop holes, deductions, ect. as do we all.
That's just when they aren't down-right refusing to pay them ... Vodaphone I am looking at you!
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Mark, I wanted to come back to this and comment a bit further.
Early America encompassed a spirit if individualism and self reliance and was built out of the labors of those who often were willing to go it alone make something from nothing, do what it takes, etc. I certainly understand that.
However, as a cohesive nation we need to take care of our own people, including holding up those who are less fortunate. We are a nation, and we are responsible for each other. If we do not embrace that concept, then we will always be divided on a personal and fundamental level and there is no truly cohesive nation.
The way I see it, we all do better when we all do better. As a nation, we do not prosper when I prosper at the expense of my neighbor. We can actually all prosper together and we are all lifted to a much higher level collectively, than most of us would be able to climb alone. No man is an island, and all that.
This does not need to mean the demise of the individuality and self reliance that marked the early days of this nation. There is always room for that. But some things are done better when they are done collectively, for the benefit of all.
I pay my taxes and I don't mind doing so. I am smart enough to understand that for a nation to exist and thrive, it needs funding on a governmental level. I lament the waste that is often prevalent in government spending; I'm not blind to it. But the idea that taxes are simply robbery of the people is nonsense. I would rather see my taxes spent on something that would be for the benefit of the American people on a tangible level. Access to quality healthcare, for all of our citizens, fits that bill nicely. That's a much better way to spend our tax money than on global military misadventures, the likes of what we keep seeing over and over and over.
I don't understand the resistance to the idea of readily accessible heathcare. We are a wealthy nation and can certainly afford it. But people like to throw around terms like "socialism" and "communism" and demonize the very notion of it. That's an ignorant stance to take, it's fighting against something that would benefit everyone and would remove the nonsense that is the health insurance industry. To me, it's a no-brainer. It doesn't take a rocket-scientist to see that it's a good idea that is way way overdue, and figuring out a viable way to implement it ought to be of the highest priority.
But alas, ignorance abounds and people scream against it.
I mind a lot. I don't want to pay for murdering brown people overseas. It's wrong and I don't want anything I do to support that.
If I stop paying over 50% of my federal taxes, the portion that goes to murder, goons in costume come to my door with guns. They throw me in a cage and take my property. How is this not robbery?
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
i agree that a lot of our taxes are misspent, and that should change. I agree with your protest of these particular expenditures as well. That's not how I would like my taxes spent. I'd rather those taxes go to pay for healthcare and education for all.
taxes, in and of itself, is not robbery. Without taxes, there is no nation.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
i dont want my taxes payng for abortions, but the government doesnt care what i want, or what you want Cinderella.
9-9-9
9-9-9
Well, you taxes don't pay for abortions.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
9-9-9... again. Simple question. Why do you support creating a new Federal tax?
