The Essence of your kung fu

[DaveB]

Lol I have no concern about the lineage or origin of the style.
I just don't train at a club anymore to ask questions like this one.

Also that was the most detailed description after Jow ga's. Im not sure I could identify any of the arts that go with these descriptions. That could be a fun game in it's self.

 

[Flying Crane]

Reading it , it is to vague a statement. It could as well be any style. I would be curious as to the actual name. If your teacher only uses the name tiger-crane it could be a rehash of a karate style or a chinese style. I would put money on the karate. If it was a chinese lineage he would call it Ming He Quan or Hu Zun Quan,, whooping crane style or Tiger style or something like that that is definitive.
My question would be what forms do you do?

Can't be whooping crane. The whooping crane species is indigenous (and nearly extinct) to North America, and is not and never has been found in Asia. You're welcome.

 

[Flying Crane]

I forgot to ask what style you do as well?

Tibetan White Crane.

 

[Flying Crane]

I'll do my best.

I was told that though it's called Tiger-crane it's really crane with elements of tiger style.

So the crane is light and mobile, keeping away from the opponents force and striking with precision. It uses the waist to deflect and power strikes, it sticks and throws its energy rather than thrusts.

The tiger roots its self and actively rips away the opponent's defence. It smashes and once in contact siezes and controls.

Not a concise explanation but I think that sums up the style... Does it seem familiar?

Is this a hung-gar derivative, or something from Fujian crane? I've also heard of an Omei white crane but I know nothing about it, including whether it is a legitimate system or something that was created in the US as a quasi-Chinese-ish martial art.

 

[hoshin1600]

Can't be whooping crane. The whooping crane species is indigenous (and nearly extinct) to North America, and is not and never has been found in Asia. You're welcome.

So then maybe Ming He Quan is , calling crane? I have heard that usage as well. I don't speak chinese at all.
And I seem to remember you correcting the whooping name before. I'll try to remember that.

 

[hoshin1600]

Lol I have no concern about the lineage or origin of the style.
I just don't train at a club anymore to ask questions like this one.

Also that was the most detailed description after Jow ga's. Im not sure I could identify any of the arts that go with these descriptions. That could be a fun game in it's self.

It's all good. I am curious about the name and lineage only so I can get an image of what your practice looks like.
Do you do the form sanchin/ San zhan? This form is the foundational practice of most Fujian styles.

So my own practice does sanjian form and others, iron shirt training and chin na.
Question for the other CMA guys....does your style incorporate meridian based strike targets, Kyusho / dim mak ?

 

[DaveB]

I trained in Tiger-crane combination that descends from the Nam Yang Pugilistic Association by way of the Fujian White Crane (name not style) school in London.

They have a Sanchin that I can't spell the next form is a repeat of the first but with half steps and slightly different end, the third and forth seem vaguely related to Siesan that 90d turns and 45d movements with a 180d turn respectively. Then the 5th uses turns at I think 20d and looks at redirection of force.
These first 5 were just referred to as patterns 1 -5.

There are more traditionally named longer forms after that but I don't know them.

 

[hoshin1600]

I trained in Tiger-crane combination that descends from the Nam Yang Pugilistic Association by way of the Fujian White Crane (name not style) school in London.

They have a Sanchin that I can't spell the next form is a repeat of the first but with half steps and slightly different end, the third and forth seem vaguely related to Siesan that 90d turns and 45d movements with a 180d turn respectively. Then the 5th uses turns at I think 20d and looks at redirection of force.
These first 5 were just referred to as patterns 1 -5.

There are more traditionally named longer forms after that but I don't know them.

Nam Yang,,,wow ok.

 

[DaveB]

Nam Yang,,,wow ok.

Is there something special about the nam yang group?

Its from Fujian originally, a combination of Fujian White Crane and some other local tiger style that I haven't been able to identify.

When I look for southern tiger or hakka tiger kungfu I keep getting referred to a style called Tai Chor, but I don't know why because that apparently translates to something else entirely.

The head of the school I trained apparently split from nam yang and built up relations with the FWC peeps.

 

[hoshin1600]

Is there something special about the nam yang group?

Its from Fujian originally, a combination of Fujian White Crane and some other local tiger style that I haven't been able to identify.

When I look for southern tiger or hakka tiger kungfu I keep getting referred to a style called Tai Chor, but I don't know why because that apparently translates to something else entirely.

The head of the school I trained apparently split from nam yang and built up relations with the FWC peeps.

Nam Yang, from what i read, comes from 3 styles and Tai Chor is the tiger system they list, sun and frost crane is one of the crane styles, its very tai chi looking. the other Fujian crane system within Nam Yang is not really specified they call it Eng Chun Pei Ho, but that seems to be a Nam Yang terminology. it is listed in english as a white crane system.

if your teacher is/ has training with some FWC people then you probably have a heavy slant towards that system. i wish i was single and kid free again i would love to travel all over and visit with you and everyone else here on MT.

 

[DaveB]

Eng chun pei ho is probably the same as Yong chun bai he, ie Yong chun village white crane, ie Fujianese white crane.

Sun frost crane is a bolt on tai chi style taught separately but along side the tiger-crane style. It never interested me though so I avoided it. I just can't cope with slow motion forms, at least not when learning.

I have a karate taichi form that I do slowmo sometimes but I learned it at normal speed.

 

[Xue Sheng]

So then maybe Ming He Quan is , calling crane? I have heard that usage as well. I don't speak chinese at all.
And I seem to remember you correcting the whooping name before. I'll try to remember that.

I had to look that up and whooping comes up as Bǎirìké but if you reverse the translation it comes back as pertussis so I am assuming this is a reference to "whooping cough" and not whooping crane.... I would be interested in what word you heard.

 

[Flying Crane]

So then maybe Ming He Quan is , calling crane? I have heard that usage as well. I don't speak chinese at all.
And I seem to remember you correcting the whooping name before. I'll try to remember that.

Yeah I think there is something called calling crane. It's easy to mix those words up in this context.

The mistake doesn't bother me, I think it's actually kind of funny. But I do point it out. Kind of like when people say Koala Bear. It's not a bear at all. It's a marsupial. It's a koala.

 

[DaveB]

Hoshin, what style do you do?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

i would love to travel all over and visit with you and everyone else here on MT

That's my lottery-based retirement plan, Hoshin.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I had to look that up and whooping comes up as Bǎirìké but if you reverse the translation it comes back as pertussis so I am assuming this is a reference to "whooping cough" and not whooping crane.... I would be interested in what word you heard.

"Pertussis Crane Kung Fu" really doesn't have that ring to it, you know?

 

[hoshin1600]

Hoshin, what style do you do?

for many years i trained in Uechi ryu. which by common classification is named karate. but historically Kanbun Uechi studied kung-fu and taught in China using the Chinese language. later after the boxer rebellion he moved to Wakayama Japan and opened the Pangainoon Tode-jutsu school in 1925. so by definition Kanbun did kung-fu , however his son Kanei after Kanbun's death became the defacto head of the system and living in Okinawa, redesigned the curriculum and called it Uechi- ryu karate.
my own journey has led me back to the origins of the style and bring back many of the aspects of the art that have been pushed aside as well as forgo many of the parts that have been either tacked on to the art or misinterpreted over the years. i fully support and respect those who train in Uechi ryu and follow the way that was past to them from their teacher, that is just not where the winds of fate have taken me. i am interested in the style with two aspects in mind, first the art as Kanbun Uechi learned it and how he taught in China. he was very proud of the art and was very protective to preserve it intact as his teacher taught him. second, how this older art fits into today's need for true self defense. the older art was active during the Boxer rebellion and was really geared towards actual self defense. where the modern developments have taken on more of the sport aspects common in the 1960's and have been very influenced by American perceptions and the need for leisure time pursuits.

 

[DaveB]

for many years i trained in Uechi ryu. which by common classification is named karate. but historically Kanbun Uechi studied kung-fu and taught in China using the Chinese language. later after the boxer rebellion he moved to Wakayama Japan and opened the Pangainoon Tode-jutsu school in 1925. so by definition Kanbun did kung-fu , however his son Kanei after Kanbun's death became the defacto head of the system and living in Okinawa, redesigned the curriculum and called it Uechi- ryu karate.
my own journey has led me back to the origins of the style and bring back many of the aspects of the art that have been pushed aside as well as forgo many of the parts that have been either tacked on to the art or misinterpreted over the years. i fully support and respect those who train in Uechi ryu and follow the way that was past to them from their teacher, that is just not where the winds of fate have taken me. i am interested in the style with two aspects in mind, first the art as Kanbun Uechi learned it and how he taught in China. he was very proud of the art and was very protective to preserve it intact as his teacher taught him. second, how this older art fits into today's need for true self defense. the older art was active during the Boxer rebellion and was really geared towards actual self defense. where the modern developments have taken on more of the sport aspects common in the 1960's and have been very influenced by American perceptions and the need for leisure time pursuits.

Replace Uechi ryu with Shotokan and our stories are almost identical.

 

[VPT]

鸣/míng: (of animals and birds) cry, call; make sound.

Dunno why people call this "whooping". Do you Anglo-Americans describe the sound of crane like that? I think Patrick McCarthy uses the term "Whooping Crane", maybe the whole term originates from him.

Also, "Yongchun Baihe" in Fuzhou dialect is "Eing Cung Bak Houk". However, Fuzhou dialect belongs to Eastern Min language group, whereas Yongchun village area might be in Western Min, so this comment has basically zero value

 

[VPT]

I'll use a three-tiered approach borrowed from Japanese Koryu to describe Bak Mei. It has levels of hyoho, tenouchi and waza; or, Strategy, Skill and Technique, thus moving from more abstract to more concrete.

On strategy level, Bak Mei aims to break the opponent's structure by forcefully disrupting an incoming attack and then entering close range. And then, dunno, maybe finish them?

On skill level, the line of attack is linear and almost straight up, with little sideways movement to enter (yet such movements are still found in forms); this is one distinguishing feature between Lung Ying and Bak Mei. Both hands are kept close to centerline, usually in a tiger claw posture (initial position for Mo Kiu, rubbing bridge). Shoulders are not squared, however, but in a very slight angle approximating 15 degrees. Power generation comes through sagittal flexion and extension of the spine. The training of forms aims to produce short power or inch power, which is called "scared power" in Bak Mei. This power can be utilised in several ways upon contact with incoming attacks, thus we do not aim for sustaining bridges for extended mounts of time. Main method of footwork is sliding, alternating steps occur only occasionally.

On a technique level, there are four main directions of technique (Sei Biu), sink-float-swallow-spit. There are different hand techniques that use different directions for different goals. Either hand hardly ever goes to a chamber either at the ribs or the waist, and in forms most attacks are executed with the right hand with the left hand mostly just clearing the way and making openings. Kicks only occur with the right leg (since stance is most of the time left leg ahead). Some (but not all) lineages use the classification of "Baat Sek" or "eight techniques" to deal with attacks, there's a video series on YouTube of them if you are interested.