Kung Fu

[Black Tiger Fist]

We have to remember as well that mantis is the only system created to defeat those well trained in kung fu and especially shaolin monks. I think that is one reason why it is so complicated and takes such a long time to really be quite effective.

7sm

Ohhh boy

Every style of kung fu was created to defeat others well trained in kung fu and martial arts.

So your logic is a bit flawed there.

Wang Lang came up with techniques that at the time were effective against most of the arts taught at the shaolin temple.

He fought some monks ,not every monk.

jeff

 

[7starmantis]

Ohhh boy

Every style of kung fu was created to defeat others well trained in kung fu and martial arts.

So your logic is a bit flawed there.

Wang Lang came up with techniques that at the time were effective against most of the arts taught at the shaolin temple.

He fought some monks ,not every monk.

jeff

Not so, every system of MA was created to defeat others in martial combat, not specifically trained in kung fu. Other systems of kung fu were not created to best those of shaolin training specifically. Wong Long fought the elder monks, no one is emplying he fought every monk.

7sm

 

[7starmantis]

I never said you grasp skills within a few weeks ,i said you could be an effective fighter within a few weeks. Effective fighter doesn't mean you're able to beat everyone you fight within that time. Effective means you can use the techniques you learned within that time effectively.

jeff

So it doesn't take grasping skills to be an effective fighter? Here we go.

You said you couldn't grasp skills in a few weeks, but you can be a very effective fighter in a few weeks. That doestn' make sense, you believe you dont have to grasp skills to be a good fighter?

7sm

 

[Black Tiger Fist]

So it doesn't take grasping skills to be an effective fighter? Here we go.

You said you couldn't grasp skills in a few weeks, but you can be a very effective fighter in a few weeks. That doestn' make sense, you believe you dont have to grasp skills to be a good fighter?

7sm

Okay, you're just playing word games now or you don't have the experience in martial arts you claim to have ,because if you did/do you know what i'm saying.

jeff

 

[7starmantis]

LOL, I kind of figured you go back to that. If you write my training or knowledge off, you dont have to explain yourself. I think I know what you mean however. You're saying that even the very basic techniques you learn in kung fu can be very effective, right? Your correct, however to have a high level of skill and oftentimes to use what you know against someone of high skill takes a longer time. Its just teh way it is, anyone I have ever talked to who have spent theri lives in kung fu agree with that.

7sm

 

[Black Tiger Fist]

Not so, every system of MA was created to defeat others in martial combat, not specifically trained in kung fu. Other systems of kung fu were not created to best those of shaolin training specifically. Wong Long fought the elder monks, no one is emplying he fought every monk.

7sm

He fought certain elder monks ,those that he did defeat are who his creation bested. There were many different styles taught at shaolin ,because he defeated a certain group of monks does not mean his style was created to defeat those trained in shaolin kung fu.

Monks did not know several styles like movies make them out to have. Most trained in only one style ,even their elders ,so Wang Lang only beat that particular style that those monks knew.

And as far as history goes ,the chinese used and created their arts to defend against eachother as well as others ,so they did create styles to defeat other styles of kung fu. The chinese did not deal with many other races ,other than the japanese and monguls.

jeff

 

[Black Tiger Fist]

LOL, I kind of figured you go back to that. If you write my training or knowledge off, you dont have to explain yourself.
7sm

I don't know what you mean by that ,but ok

I think I know what you mean however. You're saying that even the very basic techniques you learn in kung fu can be very effective, right?
7sm

I'm sure you know what i mean.

Yes, the very basic techniques are very effective ,because no matter how far you go in your training ,you realise that ,it's all in the basics!!!

Your correct, however to have a high level of skill and oftentimes to use what you know against someone of high skill takes a longer time. Its just teh way it is, anyone I have ever talked to who have spent theri lives in kung fu agree with that.

7sm

Not really!

No matter how much skill you poses ,if you're not a natural fighter ,you'll only be so good. That means that you could lose to a natural fighter with basic skills everytime you fought.

There are only certain skills you can aquire ,the rest you're either born with or you're not!

jeff

 

[7starmantis]

No matter how much skill you poses ,if you're not a natural fighter ,you'll only be so good. That means that you could lose to a natural fighter with basic skills everytime you fought.

There are only certain skills you can aquire ,the rest you're either born with or you're not!

jeff

Ok, well I guess we will have to just disagree on this issue. What is the motivation for someone who is not a "natural fighter" to train in martial arts? I think to predict the outcome of a fight "everytime" is not only inexperienced but nieve. Its impossible to say any one person would win or lose everytime. As anyone who has trained in any MA style for long knows, a fight is completely and in all other ways unpredictable. To say that a "born fighter" with only basic skills could beat a trained "unatural fighter" regardless of skill level everytime is just plain wrong.

I'm not trying to offend you, but I completely disagree with you here. Thats ok though, we can disagree.

7sm

 

[brothershaw]

If you focus primarily on fighting , and sparring of course you will learn " how to fight" sooner, and it doesnt matter what "style" it is. Some styles generally focus more on sparring and fighting no matter what school you go to. People then tend to classify alot of these as sports styles. However there is nothing wrong with that. If a person really only wanted to learn how to fight quickly I would probably recommend muy thai or san da ( if they could find it) and some filipino knife style. Between learning solid kickboxing and some weapons skills they have alot of ground covered.
I love kung fu but often ( not always) there is such a large amount of material and so many fine details (like some not all styles of jujitsu) it can take a long time to be reasonably proficient, and alot of people dont have the time or patience.
Also alot of people starting martial arts really have no clue what they really want or what they are getting into. Looking back I can see how in some ways I could have used my time better but overall I have few regrets about my training choices.
I say this as a person who tried shorin ryu, kyukushin, tae kwon do, jujitsu, and fmas. Not everybody whos a good fighter can teach, and jsut because your teacher makes the style work for him, it may still not be the best for you no matter how hard you try.
The best a person can do is check out alot of schools and even after they find one still check out other schools so you can keep a balanced view of what and how you are being taught.

 

[Black Tiger Fist]

Ok, well I guess we will have to just disagree on this issue. What is the motivation for someone who is not a "natural fighter" to train in martial arts?

You're missing the point bro!

I'm not trying to be a azz or funny ,but i really don't think you have as much experience as you claim. Because you should understand what i'm saying and it's just not getting through to you.

I think to predict the outcome of a fight "everytime" is not only inexperienced but nieve. Its impossible to say any one person would win or lose everytime. As anyone who has trained in any MA style for long knows, a fight is completely and in all other ways unpredictable. To say that a "born fighter" with only basic skills could beat a trained "unatural fighter" regardless of skill level everytime is just plain wrong.

Read this quote!

That means that you could lose to a natural fighter with basic skills everytime you fought.

Show me where i said YOU would lose everytime!

I said you "COULD" lose to them because ,it's more natural for them ,they don't have to work at being smooth or fast etc...

I'm really trying to stay away from a long drawn out explanation ,but if i need to do so ,i will.

I'm not trying to offend you, but I completely disagree with you here. Thats ok though, we can disagree.

7sm

Why would your not agreeing with me offend me?

This is a discussion forum ppl will disagree ,i'm a mod and super mod at three martial arts forums ,ive never seen a thread where everyone agrees yet.

jeff

 

[7starmantis]

Thats cool man, I wont attack your training and say you are lying about your training because you dont agree with me.

I just simply dont agree that a "natural fighter" is born and can beat people trained in MA for years just simply because it comes natural to them. In my opinion, if you had been training as long as you say you have you would get that, but thats not the point. Your training time has nothing to do with it, so I dont think like that. You saying in every post that I dont have the experience I say I do is just getting annoying.

7sm

 

[Black Tiger Fist]

Thats cool man, I wont attack your training and say you are lying about your training because you dont agree with me.

Bro, it's not that i'm attacking your training ,it's just that these are things that anyone that has spent time in martial arts as long as you said you have would know.

I just simply dont agree that a "natural fighter" is born and can beat people trained in MA for years just simply because it comes natural to them. In my opinion, if you had been training as long as you say you have you would get that, but thats not the point. Your training time has nothing to do with it, so I dont think like that. You saying in every post that I dont have the experience I say I do is just getting annoying.

7sm

I said with Basics i didn't say just off the street this would happen.

Bro you turn my words around everytime you reply to me. Please try to READ my post and respond to what i wrote.

jeff

 

[7starmantis]

Bro, it's not that i'm attacking your training ,it's just that these are things that anyone that has spent time in martial arts as long as you said you have would know.

I said with Basics i didn't say just off the street this would happen.

Bro you turn my words around everytime you reply to me. Please try to READ my post and respond to what i wrote.

jeff

Ok bro, I'm not turning your words around. I'll rephrase it using your exact words so that you'll be more comfortable: I just simply dont agree that a "natural fighter" with basics can beat people trained in MA for years just simply because it comes natural to them.

There, is that better? And as far as attacking my training, that is exactly what your doing and you know it. I'm fine with it, but its a little obnoxious. For you to say, "anyone who has really been training a long time must agree with me or else they haven't really been training" is not only obnoxious but nieve. It reeks of inexperience and thus becomes obnoxious if its in every post. Lets just forget that I asked you to explain something you said and you dont know how, ok? Then we can just get on with a true discussion.


Now, to get back on topic....

Regardless of how long you train in kung fu, it has very effective techniques. Many times it does take longer than others to be extremely efficient, but even the basic techniques can be effective. I would deffinitely advise anyone interested in CMA to look into some kung fu classes, there is alot to learn and most are very street effective. It does all depend on the teacher and their focus, but most I've been to seem to have a good fighting focus.

7sm

 

[Tames D]

There's always one no matter what forum you go to ,there's always one person that has no knowledge what so ever about CMA (kung Fu) ,that always wants to tell you how useless it is for self defense.

It's not the style that's useless ,it's the person who taught it to them or the person themself who doesn't put in the kung fu (skill in,hard work) to achieve anything. But you'll always have ppl that claim kung fu is useless ,without ever attempting it themselves.

jeff

I totally agree. I stopped responding to those types a long time ago. Hell, my style of Kung Fu has been dismissed as non effective by some people just because it uses the belt ranking system. Of course it can't be a good fighting system if we use belts to rank, LOL. Well I don't feel the need to sell anyone... I know what works and I wouldn't still be training in this after 35 years if it wasn't effective.

 

[Black Tiger Fist]

I know what works and I wouldn't still be training in this after 35 years if it wasn't effective.

After 35yrs you should be able to do it backwards and while spinning on your head.


jeff

 

[Tames D]

After 35yrs you should be able to do it backwards and while spinning on your head.


jeff

Only after a 12 pak of Heineken...lol

 

[L Canyon]

Hey guys i do budo taijutsu and was thinking of doing kungfu so how effective is kungfu for self defense i don't want a sport martial art.

why don't you check out San Soo? It's a 5 family art, with pretty much just fighting techniques taught (apparently Jimmy Woo felt that Americans didn't want internal training from him).