The Death Penalty: Yes or No?

[Big Don]

Empty threats are quickly spotted by the bad guys, who will not fear them. For examples see Kim Jong Il, Saddam Hussein, Arafat, etc, etc, et al.

 

[morph4me]

I just read through this entire thread and just want to say that I am very impressed at how such an emotional issue has been discussed to this point, it's one of the things that makes MT such a great forum.

I happen to stand with Rich Parsons, MBuzzy, Bydand and everyone else similarly inclined. I can't really add anything else to the conversation.

 

[KempoGuy06]

an eye for an eye is fine, when dealing with murder when a death for a death is equal. For child molesters and rapists, I would suggest something a tad more brutal than today's modern execution methods. The brazen bull perhaps.http://www.medievality.com/brazen-bull.html That is, make the punishment fit the brutality of the crime.
Executions should be swift, public and on pay-per-view. When you tell people you might kill them if they kill/rape/molest you don't get the full deterrent effect unless and until you kill some people for murder/rape/molestation. The monies recouped from the first dozen pay-per-view executions would cover the prison budgets for years.

thats a good one as far as Im concerned.

Or maybe we can take them and drowned them and bring them back to life. do this every die for the rest of there life. I believe thats a good way to torture them

B

 

[Big Don]

thats a good one as far as Im concerned.

Or maybe we can take them and drowned them and bring them back to life. do this every die for the rest of there life. I believe thats a good way to torture them

B

The only problem I see with that is, who is going to want to save their *** day after day?

 

[dart68]

an eye for an eye is fine, when dealing with murder when a death for a death is equal. For child molesters and rapists, I would suggest something a tad more brutal than today's modern execution methods. The brazen bull perhaps.http://www.medievality.com/brazen-bull.html That is, make the punishment fit the brutality of the crime.
Executions should be swift, public and on pay-per-view. When you tell people you might kill them if they kill/rape/molest you don't get the full deterrent effect unless and until you kill some people for murder/rape/molestation. The monies recouped from the first dozen pay-per-view executions would cover the prison budgets for years.

It's been stated the the death penalty has not been a real deterance to people commiting the crimes. I think the deterance would not come from the penalty of death but the assurance that you'll be caught. Most people that commit crimes do so because they believe they won't be caught. If you're not afraid of being caught, you won't be afraid of the penalty.

Those who believe that the state should not execute criminals I ask, "Why not?"

Those that believe that you should not execute criminals because there is never proof beyond a shadow of a doubt, would you still be against the death penalty even if there was no doubt? The burdon of proof in criminal law is beyond a reasonable doubt, not beyond a shadow of a doubt. A suspect could claim that he wasn't there because he had been abducted by aliens during the time the crime was commited. But is that reasonable to believe?

As to whether or not the death penalty - I say yes. At the very least, you won't be able to call someone who was put to death a repeat offender.

 

[morph4me]

It's been stated the the death penalty has not been a real deterance to people commiting the crimes. I think the deterance would not come from the penalty of death but the assurance that you'll be caught. Most people that commit crimes do so because they believe they won't be caught. If you're not afraid of being caught, you won't be afraid of the penalty.

The death penalty may not be a deterrant, but it garauntees that the person who is put to death, will never kill anyone else.

 

[PatMunk]

About the only thing wrong with the death penalty is it isn't carried out fast enough once the conviction is handed out....

Judge Roy Bean had the right idea ....

 

[dart68]

The death penalty may not be a deterrant, but it garauntees that the person who is put to death, will never kill anyone else.

I agree. As I said in my post, someone that has been put to death won't be called a repeat offender.

 

[Big Don]

The death penalty may not be a deterrant, but it garauntees that the person who is put to death, will never kill anyone else.

When it is used in a timely manner, that is people don't grow old and gray on death row, it is a deterrent. When people get old on death row, it is just an empty threat. Empty threats quit scaring my son when he was 4...

 

[Doc_Jude]

Hmmm....
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22296966/

That's great! Even if some folks around here lack the sense to see the error in it, the states don't.

 

[Doc_Jude]

I notice you didn't volunteer your services in performing your "eye-for-an-eye" duties by molesting the child molesters.

Ha! True. Of course, for the "eye for an eye" punishment to be properly proportionate, it would take a jack hammer to the rectum. Everybody wants to party, but no one wants to clean up after.

 

[heretic888]

Hi guys,

A few more brief comments on my part.

Those who believe that the state should not execute criminals I ask, "Why not?"

Because of the inherent moral hypocrisy of Two Wrongs Make A Right. As I stated earlier, the only two reasons for capital punishment are social deterrence (which has not been statistically observed) and vengeance (which, based on several of the last few posts here, is the real reason behind these positions).

Also, as per social observation theory, socially accepted forms of violence are more likely to increase the frequency of general violence in society (this is also one of the reasons why domestic violent behavior rises during times of war and in children observing violent media).

The death penalty may not be a deterrant, but it garauntees that the person who is put to death, will never kill anyone else.

The death penalty also guarantees the person put to death will never jaywalk again, litter again, or cheat on his or her taxes again.

To be blunt, this argument is absurd.

As I said in my post, someone that has been put to death won't be called a repeat offender.

Neither will someone with life imprisonment.

Neither will someone that has been genuinely rehabilitated (if it is indeed possible for the offender in question).

Neither will someone who never committed a crime in the first place.

So??

When it is used in a timely manner, that is people don't grow old and gray on death row, it is a deterrent.

Since we are now making blanket assertions without a shred of empirical evidence to support them, can I now assert the earth is resting on the back of a giant panda??

Can I??

Good grief....

 

[Doc_Jude]

thats a good one as far as Im concerned.

Or maybe we can take them and drowned them and bring them back to life. do this every die for the rest of there life. I believe thats a good way to torture them

B

Yes, let's use water boarding on criminals, but not terrorists.
DO YOU "PEOPLE" (& that's a stretch) EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU'RE SAYING!?!

Yes, let's drown criminals and have them raped & ravaged by wild. & I know, we can have lotteries to see who gets to perform these atrocities. It'll be just like Hostel, but legal, because the "majority" want it, & they want it on Pay Per View, & there goes Society :flushed:

If you are so desperate to throw your humanity away, go right ahead, but you must abandon the moral high ground to do it.

 

[Big Don]

Hi guys,
Neither will someone with life imprisonment.

Boy, do you need to talk to a CO some time... People serving IN prison commit crimes and occasionally murder someone, be it a fellow prisoner, or a CO, murder is still murder...

Neither will someone that has been genuinely rehabilitated (if it is indeed possible for the offender in question).

:lfao:

Neither will someone who never committed a crime in the first place.
So??



Since we are now making blanket assertions without a shred of empirical evidence to support them, can I now assert the earth is resting on the back of a giant panda??

Turtle, which rests on the backs of four elephants

Can I??

Good grief....

 

[MJS]

The dealth penalty...I support it. What I dont support is the argument that it needs to be humane. I think punishments should go back to an eye for an eye. You kill some one buy shooting them well then you get shot. Or in the case of the guy in Texas that was dragged to his death, they people responsible should die the same way. Ive told people this before and they say to me "Well Brandon who are we going to get to perform all these punishments" my only answer is "ME" I will do it to save tax payers millions and to solve the problem.

Also...child molestors...SHOT THEM IN THE HEAD. There is no place for them in society. You mess with a little kid you deserve to die plain and simple. If this makes me barbaric than so be it. But like Christopher Titus says "show me the pro molesting little kids side of the argument"

B

Ya know, I say the same thing, especially when I hear about people abusing/killing kids. I hate to see stories of the boyfriend who threw his girlfriends crying baby because he was left alone with the kid, didn't know what to do to stop it from crying, so ended up killing it.

 

[MJS]

About the only thing wrong with the death penalty is it isn't carried out fast enough once the conviction is handed out....

Judge Roy Bean had the right idea ....

Agreed! People sit and sit and sit and sit. I say, if the crime warrants the death penalty and all evidence has been exhausted, then go thru with it. Do something...either kill them or lock them up with no chance of parole. But to sit on death row for years is pointless IMO.

 

[MJS]

Saw this on the news today.
http://www.wfsb.com/news/14888193/detail.html

Gotta love this part.

"However, lengthy appeals will likely postpone that indefinitely"


This guy is a scumbag, who should never see freedom again. No regard for human life whatsoever.

 

[fireman00]

I'll ask anyone who is anti-death penalty this question... how many times have you personally dealt with a situation where you saw up close and personal the impact that murder has upon a person, their family and their loved ones... how their lives are torn apart.... not to mention the after affects that police/ fire / rescue get to deal with.

Me... I've seen the aftermath and its heart-wrenching... and to think that a murderer gets three meals a day, TV, AC, laundry, rec time, outdoor time.... sorry that doesn't add up.

It's like putting down a mad dog or a rabid raccoon... a murderer is a social disease that should be permanently removed from society. 3 appeals and if the last one doesn't save you then its a short walk to the lethal injection/ gas chamber/ ol' sparky/ gallows/ <insert choice>.

 

[heretic888]

I'll ask anyone who is anti-death penalty this question... how many times have you personally dealt with a situation where you saw up close and personal the impact that murder has upon a person, their family and their loved ones... how their lives are torn apart.... not to mention the after affects that police/ fire / rescue get to deal with.

Me... I've seen the aftermath and its heart-wrenching... and to think that a murderer gets three meals a day, TV, AC, laundry, rec time, outdoor time.... sorry that doesn't add up.

It's like putting down a mad dog or a rabid raccoon... a murderer is a social disease that should be permanently removed from society. 3 appeals and if the last one doesn't save you then its a short walk to the lethal injection/ gas chamber/ ol' sparky/ gallows/ <insert choice>.

Hi fireman00,

While I sympathize with the loss of your friends, the fact remains this argument is an Appeal To Emotion and, as such, has no real merit. If you are going to give a sustained defense as to why state executions should be a defining feature of our society, you'll need to come up with something more enduring than reciprocal vengeance.

While this may seem like a crass statement on my part, what arguments such as this really boil down to are We Should Have Executions Because It Will Make Us Feel Better. That a policy may seem emotionally self-gratifying does not make it a morally sound policy.

Also, as per your last paragraph, life imprisonment would also "permanently remove" a murderer from society. Depending on the nature of their imprisonment, the aforementioned murderer may also be able to contribute to society in some way (such as through prison labor systems).

 

[Cruentus]

Hi fireman00,

While I sympathize with the loss of your friends, the fact remains this argument is an Appeal To Emotion and, as such, has no real merit. If you are going to give a sustained defense as to why state executions should be a defining feature of our society, you'll need to come up with something more enduring than reciprocal vengeance.

While this may seem like a crass statement on my part, what arguments such as this really boil down to are We Should Have Executions Because It Will Make Us Feel Better. That a policy may seem emotionally self-gratifying does not make it a morally sound policy.

Also, as per your last paragraph, life imprisonment would also "permanently remove" a murderer from society. Depending on the nature of their imprisonment, the aforementioned murderer may also be able to contribute to society in some way (such as through prison labor systems).

I think that there are a lot better, more reasonable arguments for executions then vengeance. It is safe to say that some people are a danger to society. Some people prove to be a lethal threat even while in the prison system as well. It is also a worthy argument to say that we shouldn't have to continue to pay the 30 or so thousand a year it takes to keep a prisoner incarcerated when that prisoner willfully chooses to be a danger to the rest of us.

So I am of the stance that some people do need to be killed, and I think that there are good reasons for this stance that have nothing to do with revenge.

I just wanted to make that point, even though I am actually against the death penalty in our country for reasons that I proposed earlier...