The Coming War with Iran?

[Andy Moynihan]

That's the trouble with a war you never wanna end.

Afghanistan was one thing. Iraq, necessary, but bungled, what's next? how much will be enough? Iran? Korea? Mexico?

You shout "War On Terror" at the Chinese and they laugh so hard the world blows up in your face.......

 

[newGuy12]

Fine. Hand him a rifle and extra batteries for his pacemaker and let him and his hand-puppet lead the charge. They can command the 101st Fighting Keyboardists, Rush, Mike Wiener, Michelle Malkin and the entire cast of the Free Republic and LGF.

One can only wish!

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The problem is, Dick's got nothing to lose. No friends or family at risk. Just more profit on his Haliburton stocks.

Someone once said, only a fool fights on 2 fronts. How many incomplete wars do they want and how many of our youth are going to die so DC gets a bigger dividend?

 

[Empty Hands]

Someone once said, only a fool fights on 2 fronts.

Next thing you know, we'll be going in against a Sicilian when death is on the line.

 

[Twin Fist]

The problem is, Dick's got nothing to lose. No friends or family at risk. Just more profit on his Haliburton stocks.

not so fast there Bob

The TRUTH is that Cheney doesnt profit AT ALL from his remaining stock options.

http://www.factcheck.org/kerry_ad_falsely_accuses_cheney_on_halliburton.html

The "Gift Trust Agreement" the Cheney's signed two days before he took office turns over power of attorney to a trust administrator to sell the options at some future time and to give the after-tax profits to three charities. The agreement specifies that 40% will go to the University of Wyoming (Cheney's home state), 40% will go to George Washington University's medical faculty to be used for tax-exempt charitable purposes, and 20% will go to Capital Partners for Education, a charity that provides financial aid for low-income students in Washington, DC to attend private and religious schools.​

The agreement states that it is "irrevocable and may not be terminated, waived or amended," so the Cheney's can't take back their options later.

sorry buddy, but you are wrong
​

 

[Flying Crane]

not so fast there Bob

The TRUTH is that Cheney doesnt profit AT ALL from his remaining stock options.

http://www.factcheck.org/kerry_ad_falsely_accuses_cheney_on_halliburton.html

The "Gift Trust Agreement" the Cheney's signed two days before he took office turns over power of attorney to a trust administrator to sell the options at some future time and to give the after-tax profits to three charities. The agreement specifies that 40% will go to the University of Wyoming (Cheney's home state), 40% will go to George Washington University's medical faculty to be used for tax-exempt charitable purposes, and 20% will go to Capital Partners for Education, a charity that provides financial aid for low-income students in Washington, DC to attend private and religious schools.

The agreement states that it is "irrevocable and may not be terminated, waived or amended," so the Cheney's can't take back their options later.​

sorry buddy, but you are wrong​

Any idea if Cheney holds shares of Halliburton stock outside of the stock options program? Does he have any shares that he or his family members have purchased directly thru an investment account?

 

[Twin Fist]

yes and no, he sold his actual stock in Aug 2000

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/09/12/campaign.cheney.halliburton.reut/index.html

The options he still owns were part of his salary as CEO, and as I have already proven, he doesnt profit from those in any way. his tax returns are public record.

Not to mention the fact that Haliburton lost it's biggest contract in Iraq in 2006

http://www.alternet.org/story/39567/

Some people sure wont like it, but those are the facts.
Cheney is really not the boogey man some folks like to paint him out to be.

 

[Flying Crane]

yes and no, he sold his actual stock in Aug 2000

And you know for sure that he and his family members havn't bought any shares in the last 8 years?

I wonder how one might go about finding this out...

 

[Flying Crane]

The options he still owns were part of his salary as CEO, and as I have already proven, he doesnt profit from those in any way.

yes, stock options are a different thing from simply owning shares of stock in a brokerage account.

Cheney is really not the boogey man some folks like to paint him out to be.

well, Cheney certainly is one of the the boogey men, it just may be that this isn't the issue.

 

[Flying Crane]

Not to mention the fact that Haliburton lost it's biggest contract in Iraq in 2006

I don't know the details of Haliburton's contracts in Iraq. However, it is clear that the war in Iraq has meant nothing but profit for them.

As far as the connection to Cheney goes, it is direct croneyism, that much is certain. The company that he founded got a lot of fat contracts very easily, as soon as the conflict started. He may be officially disconnected from the company, but it is very difficult to pretend that it is simply coincidence.

And it's hard to believe that he or his family won't profit from it somehow, even if it is a few years down the road.

 

[Twin Fist]

his financials and tax returns are public record. Do you think that if someone had proof that he, or someone close to him was buying up defense contractor stock it wouldnt make the news? Google "cheney haliburton stock" and all you get are stories about his stock options.

What i dont get is that Haliburton has been getting government contracts since Korea. the got contracts during Vietnam, all through the 80's and 90's

Why suddenly is it a big conspiracy that they still do? If they never had before, but suddenly did after their former CEO was vice president, i could understand all the hubub.

Oh, thats right, people just want a scandal, even if it is false.

 

[Twin Fist]

I don't know the details of Haliburton's contracts in Iraq. However, it is clear that the war in Iraq has meant nothing but profit for them.

As far as the connection to Cheney goes, it is direct croneyism, that much is certain. The company that he founded got a lot of fat contracts very easily, as soon as the conflict started. He may be officially disconnected from the company, but it is very difficult to pretend that it is simply coincidence.

And it's hard to believe that he or his family won't profit from it somehow, even if it is a few years down the road.

Micheal.
1- Cheney didnt found Halibuton. Haliburton goes back tot he 40's
2- yes the company has profitted from contracts in Iraq. LOTS of companies have
3-Unless someone can PROVE that Cheney got the contract for them, it isnt crony anything. Like I said, they have been getting military support contracts since KOREA. How was THAT cronyism? It isnt "certain" because it isnt true. And contracts are handed out not by the vice president, but by the GAO
4- it seems hard to believe that 19 guys killed 3000, but it happened.

I am not trying to bust your chops bro, I am just trying to show you that everything you think you know might not be what you think it is.

The Truth is out there, you just gotta look for it.

 

[Empty Hands]

Why suddenly is it a big conspiracy that they still do?

The fact that the Iraq war contract, at least the initial one, was no-bid might have something to do with it.

 

[tellner]

Recall that he's still getting pay and bonuses from Halliburton. It's going into a trust so he can't officially put it into his private bank account right now. When he was asked about the propriety during the 2000 election he said that of course it would all go straight to charity. None of it has. Not a bit. And even if he did donate it he would tax deductions worth millions.

If he has no interest in Halliburton or KBR there wouldn't be any reason at all for them to get billions of dollars in every year in no-bid audit-free contracts, would there? But they do. And they are generally the only company even considered.

The man gives corruption a bad name.

 

[Flying Crane]

1- Cheney didnt found Halibuton. Haliburton goes back tot he 40's

my misunderstanding. I honestly haven't looked closely at the company.

2- yes the company has profitted from contracts in Iraq. LOTS of companies have
3-Unless someone can PROVE that Cheney got the contract for them, it isnt crony anything. Like I said, they have been getting military support contracts since KOREA. How was THAT cronyism? It isnt "certain" because it isnt true. And contracts are handed out not by the vice president, but by the GAO

No, I don't have proof, but I do have suspicions. We'll see what happens when he becomes a civilian again.

4- it seems hard to believe that 19 guys killed 3000, but it happened.

not sure what you are referring to here...

 

[Flying Crane]

The fact that the Iraq war contract, at least the initial one, was no-bid might have something to do with it.

yup, that's what I was thinking about, couldn't quite pin it down...

 

[Bob Hubbard]

not so fast there Bob

The TRUTH is that Cheney doesnt profit AT ALL from his remaining stock options.

http://www.factcheck.org/kerry_ad_falsely_accuses_cheney_on_halliburton.html

The "Gift Trust Agreement" the Cheney's signed two days before he took office turns over power of attorney to a trust administrator to sell the options at some future time and to give the after-tax profits to three charities. The agreement specifies that 40% will go to the University of Wyoming (Cheney's home state), 40% will go to George Washington University's medical faculty to be used for tax-exempt charitable purposes, and 20% will go to Capital Partners for Education, a charity that provides financial aid for low-income students in Washington, DC to attend private and religious schools.​

The agreement states that it is "irrevocable and may not be terminated, waived or amended," so the Cheney's can't take back their options later.

sorry buddy, but you are wrong
​

I wasn't aware of that. Thank you.

 

[Twin Fist]

Not so fast

The last payment he received from haliburton was in 2005, that was the final installment of he pay as CEO which he deferred. Which is a common practice btw

Also, you are right, nothing has gone to charity yet from his Halibuton stock options.

Not because he is Darth Cheney, but because he hasnt sold them yet. You cant direct proceeds of a sale to charity until you actually sell something
Huh, who would have thunk it. You cant give away the proceeds of a sale untill you , you know, sell something. Thats Crazy.......

Plus, he has also signed away the tax deduction he will get when he does. The truth is out there.

that takes care of most of your post, as for the rest:
"If he has no interest in Halliburton or KBR there wouldn't be any reason at all for them to get billions of dollars in every year in no-bid audit-free contracts, would there?"

well, thats not true either.

"4/27/2003: (CBS) Halliburton’s government relations director says his company’s former CEO, now the vice president of the United States, has nothing to do with the company getting billions of dollars in federal contracts, including a recent no-bid job, worth up to $7 billion, to put out oil well fires in Iraq.

Dominy says the connection between the vice president and Halliburton’s business with the government has “absolutely zero impact.” Asked if his being a former three-star Army general had anything to do with his employment at Halliburton, Dominy replies, “None.”

Why did they get the no-bid contract to put out oil fires for the Army? “We are the only company in the United States that had the kind of systems in place, people in place, contacts in place, to do that kind of thing,” says Dominy.

But he acknowledges the perception of cronyism it creates, which is a view only a look inside the process could dispel. “In fact, I wish I could embed [critics] inside the Department of Defense contracting system. Once they’d done that, they’d have religion just like I do about how the system cannot be influenced,” he tells Kroft."
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3141.htm

They got it because no one else could do it. The FBI investigated it in 2004, and found no wrong doing.

But like i said, people want a scandal, weather or not it is true.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

"people want a scandal, weather or not it is true."
Very true. Which is why the repeated requests for backing info. I think you said here or elsewhere anyone can put up a webpage, which was 100% right. My arguement on all these issues is, lets put all the info out there we can, weed through it, debunk is, etc and see where "truth" really is. Sometimes dude, I put stuff up so it -will- be debunked.


Now, regarding Iran, and war plans..... having plans for various wars, etc, is a good thing. Constantly updating them, modifying them, etc, also good.

The concern here is, that given various things, and a track record of deceit, that these are more than "whatifs" but "we're going in soon" type plans.

I also ask, "Why?". Because I and others honestly would like to know, and don't want to simply assume that what we "know" is in fact, what is real.

9,000 members, many, in the middle of all this fun stuff.

 

[Twin Fist]

Very true. Which is why the repeated requests for backing info. I think you said here or elsewhere anyone can put up a webpage, which was 100% right. My arguement on all these issues is, lets put all the info out there we can, weed through it, debunk is, etc and see where "truth" really is. Sometimes dude, I put stuff up so it -will- be debunked.

I agree 100% (as long as national security isnt violated you understand)

I HATE no bids cuz the potential for abuse is so high. But I wont assume abuse till it is proven. Which is pretty fair i think.