The Arts i plan on mastering / What is Mastering really mean?

[ace]

To Train everyday is the way to go
This is my firm belif as well

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

If the J-kid dreams of being a jack of all MA trades, so be it, it's his perogative and good luck to you son on your long and arduous journey. I hope you reach your goal. May the Force and the martial arts gods be with you.

Me personally, I just want to become proficient in my primary art. It would be presumptous for me to say that I could ever master it because there is so much to master. Never hurts to try though.
The study of ANY art is infinite... :asian:

 

[bart]

Hey JK,

I am christen and that would be against my relegion.

Hmmm...wouldn't violence of any sort then be against your literal interpretation of Christianity? Like that other guy said "get a thick Bible" and do more than just the recommended reading.

But for anyone else who wants to believe in it thats fine and i wish you the best of luck shooting fire balls or what not.

That's quite a misunderstanding of chi. I don't believe in the chi that blows out candles from another room and the chi that can inflict voodoo like damage to remote objects. That is hokey and I also don't think that's what chi is when used in the MA. Along with your list of arts JK, study up on kinesiology and see what a kinetic chain is. That is just plain physics. From my study chi is just a way of explaining kinesiology that predates modern science. Which by the way, physics may also be in conflict with your literal interpretation of Christianity. Chi is part of judo and jujitsu, so I hope you can open your mind to it, otherwise some instructors won't be able to teach you, as they use chi or qi as vocabulary for instruction.

Now on to your eskrimador...

This is what I asked:

What style of Eskrima does your "master" classmate practice? By calling himself a master, he must have some creds, what are they?

This is what JK answered:

The guy who gos to my gym knows 4 styles of escrima and has been doing it a LONG time.

What styles? How long is a long time? Who did he learn from? JK are you avoiding answering those questions? If you don't know, that's fine, just say so, but I'm curious about this "master".

Healing what a load of crap, What the heck are you talking about.

Healing is not like the D&D type of healing that you're probably misunderstanding it as. Rather, if you dislocate a guys shoulder, you know how to put it back in, or if you break a guy's finger, you know how to set it, or if you hit someone really hard in a large muscle, you know how to work the charlie horse out, or you kick a guys balls into his abdomen, you know how to drop him and pop them back out. Do you follow? This is mostly for use on your training partners. They would get to be in short supply if you injured them and didn't have some way of lessening the damage after the fact.

Anyway, like I said before, good luck to you JK. Aside from a lack of spell check and a tendency to knee jerk your answers you seem like you'll get where you want to be eventually.

 

[H@pkid0ist]

I have a dry and sarcastic sense of humor to begin with. I am sorry if I personally came off as putting you or your dreams down in any way. I wasn't. I do believe that you can achieve high levels of proficiency in all the arts you stated. You can do what ever you set your mind and heart to. But, I personally do not believe that any art that is not stale can ever be mastered. The most we can ever hope for is understanding it, and being exceptional at it. As far as mastering one's self, I believe that this is an aver tougher goal, but not impossible. Also, it is a more noble goal.
Here is a quat from Nelson Mandela. Read it and take it to heart. I believe in it and encourage everyone else to. Good luck and aside from the sense of humor, anytime you ask I will be more than happy to give an honest and unbiast response.

"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that people won't feel insecure around you. We are meant to shine, as children do. We are born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not in just some of us; it's in all of us. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."
Nelson Mandela 1994


God speed.

D.W.McCullar ( Still not master of my own damn house!!! )

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Pyros
I feel it is funny how we the western countries seem to feel mastery of a budo art is something godlike. My background info is mostly from Japanese arts, but five centuries ago it was common for a samurai to become a master in less than 10 years, some even in less than five.

You make some good and interesting points. When the arts were used frequently in battle it was necessary to train someone to competence sufficient to protect their lives and/or take another's in a relatively short time. Who would want an army of 75 year old "masters"? We view it differently now--partially a do vs. jutsu thing.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by arnisador
You make some good and interesting points. When the arts were used frequently in battle

Sorry but I always have a problem with this statement of arts used “battle”.

Which arts?
Judo……..nope.
Jujutsu……..nope
Karate…….nope
Taichi…….nope
Chi gung………nope
TKD………..nope
Using the above arts in "battle" would be like taking a knife to a gun fight.

These arts were used in battle:
Kenjutsu…..yes
Naginata……..yes
Yari………yes
Kyujutsu……..yes

Originally posted by arnisador
it was necessary to train someone to competence sufficient to protect their lives and/or take another's in a relatively short time.

Good point but since it was their job to train from childhood for 6~8 hours a day it shortened that training time considerably……also given the fact that most people didn’t live as long.
Another point to consider is the legal one. Dueling was still legal in those days and the loser more often than not died. Talk about motivation to train hard!
Now the winner of a tournament wins a cute little trophy and maybe a few bucks…..the loser gets to go home and lick his wounds to fight another day.

Originally posted by arnisador
We view it differently now--partially a do vs. jutsu thing.

99.99% of the worlds martial artists are “Martial Hobbiests” at best. Many MMA don't even view them as a "Do" anymore as well.

 

[Pyros]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Karate…….nope
Taichi…….nope

Not to pick blood from my nose, but tai chi is well versed in weapons, including sword and staff tactics, just as kenjutsu and yarijutsu. Taichi has been used in real battlefields. Of course, the morning exercise taichi most often seen today has nothing to do with complete taichi training.

And karate... When it still was "The Chinese Hand", it was used in battle or at least what you'd call "real life combat", along with it's weapon systems (not "The Empty Hand" back then).

But of course, you did make a valid point otherwise.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Pyros
Not to pick blood from my nose, but tai chi is well versed in weapons, including sword and staff tactics, just as kenjutsu and yarijutsu. Taichi has been used in real battlefields. Of course, the morning exercise taichi most often seen today has nothing to do with complete taichi training.

True TaiChi does use weapons but they were incorporated into TaiChi and not part of the original art just as Okinawan Kobudo is practiced by many Karateka.

Originally posted by Pyros
And karate... When it still was "The Chinese Hand", it was used in battle or at least what you'd call "real life combat", along with it's weapon systems (not "The Empty Hand" back then).

Karate was used in "fist fights" and self-defense situations but would be impractical in a "battle".
It’s weapons systems were, as I stated above, “incorporated” into it’s training.

 

[Qasim]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Sorry but I always have a problem with this statement of arts used “battle”.

Which arts?

.........
Jujutsu……..nope
.........
Using the above arts in "battle" would be like taking a knife to a gun fight.

These arts were used in battle:
Kenjutsu…..yes
Naginata……..yes
Yari………yes
Kyujutsu……..yes

Are you saying that jujutsu was not used on the battle field by the samurai? :erg:

I think a lot of Heads of Koryu systems would be interested to know that the systems that they inherited that were developed and passed on for hundreds of years were not in fact used in battle. :rofl:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Qasim
Are you saying that jujutsu was not used on the battle field by the samurai? :erg:

Let me put it to you this way.........the other guy has a 3 foot long razor known as a katana and you are armed only with Jujutsu.......who do you think has a realistic chance?

Jujutsu was practiced by several schools of swordsmanship but was for intents and purposes not developed for doing battle in a war.


BTW, what is "Fuji" Ryu jujutsu?.........I can't seem to find it on the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai or Hozon kai list of authentic schools of Jujutsu.

 

[Pyros]

Originally posted by Qasim
I think a lot of Heads of Koryu systems would be interested to know that the systems that they inherited that were developed and passed on for hundreds of years were not in fact used in battle. :rofl:

It was already obvious earlier that he uses the term 'battle' in a more constrained manner. That is why I substituted it with "real life combat" when I mentioned karate...

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Maybe putting it another way...

We train soldiers in 'unarmed' combat, yet we send that same soldier into the field armed with a rifle. How good would -any- system of empty-hand techniques be at 500 yards?

So, why do we teach them it? Because they may be in a situation where its all they have. Sneak attack, disarmed, outta bullets, cut off, covert op, too close.

Its not the -primary- weapon, but it is there, if needed.

Purhaps a 'particular' art as we know it today wasn't used in combat, but components of it or what it came from were. Many of the FMA masters did hone their arts in combat durring WW2. I'm positive that others did similar at different times in history.

:asian:

 

[Qasim]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
BTW, what is "Fuji" Ryu jujutsu?.........I can't seem to find it on the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai or Hozon kai list of authentic schools of Jujutsu.

Never said it would be found there, it's Gendai not Koryu and it is primarily influenced by Sosuishitsu Ryu Jujutsu which IS an AUTHENTIC Koryu Budo.

Fuji Ryu

International Sosuishitsu Ryu Association

Your highlighting and underlining of authentic tells me you wish to get off the subject by throwing attention my way, allow me to put us back on the subject. You claim that jujutsu was not used on the battlefield. Do you understand what the purpose of the unarmed skills were? This statement of yours surprises me as you are in Japan.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Qasim

Your highlighting and underlining of authentic tells me you wish to get off the subject by throwing attention my way

Nope, just wanted to find out what it was since it was in your profile...........

Originally posted by Qasim
You claim that jujutsu was not used on the battlefield.

I would like to see some proof of how extensively it was used and how it would qualify as a “battlefield art”. I think it was an art that was developed as a “just incase” art………like just in case I lose one or both of my swords and can’t find anything else around to use as a weapon. JuJutsu could hardly compare to Kenjutsu as a “battlefield art”.

Originally posted by Qasim
We aren't talking about karate, we're talking about Jujutsu. Do you understand what the purpose of the unarmed skills were? This statement of yours surprises me as you are in Japan.

You see smart *** comments like this and the one before it tell me you're not really intyerested in discussing this on a polite level.

 

[Qasim]

That's an interesting quote that you have up there from me. It isn't in my post.

You however need to provide proof that it wasn't effective in combat, and since you are in Japan, you should have TONS of material and history available to you. Serge Mol's book, Dan Draeger's books and Darrell Craig's are examples on jujutsu's history for those of us here and over there.

On the web there is also Koryu.com .

If it wasn't EFFECTIVE, it would not have survived hundreds of years. The Samurai didn't have a history of keep things that didn't work. Especially, when lives were at stake. :mst:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Qasim
That's an interesting quote that you have up there from me. It isn't in my post.

It sure was before you edited that post at:
Last edited by Qasim on 01-06-2003 at 03:41 PM

 

[Qasim]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan


It sure was before you edited that post at:
Last edited by Qasim on 01-06-2003 at 03:41 PM [/B]

You posted after my edit was already posted. It was up there for less than a minute as I'd decided not to give you anything else to steer away from the subject. Yet again you go off the subject.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Qasim
You posted after my edit was already posted. It was up there for less than a minute as I'd decided not to give you anything else to steer away from the subject. Yet again you go off the subject.

First you start in with the snide comments and then deny posting the above then claim I am taking this thread off track.........get real.

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by cali_tkdbruin
If the J-kid dreams of being a jack of all MA trades, so be it, it's his perogative and good luck to you son on your long and arduous journey. I hope you reach your goal. May the Force and the martial arts gods be with you.

Me personally, I just want to become proficient in my primary art. It would be presumptous for me to say that I could ever master it because there is so much to master. Never hurts to try though.
The study of ANY art is infinite... :asian:

EXACTLY !!

I aim for proficiency. Claim of Mastery is bordering presumptuous. :asian:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by KennethKu
EXACTLY !!

I aim for proficiency. Claim of Mastery is bordering presumptuous. :asian:

Good Point.
With all the terms people are using like “proficiency” and “mastery” I wonder if we should define what they mean since they seem to mean different things to different people.