"The Arrest & Death of Nathaniel Jones"

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Just trying to cut through the BS and speak what I think.

 

[MisterMike]

Originally posted by OULobo
How could it possibly be a "lib's fault" that the police beat the hell out of a guy.

"Their" referring to the attacker, not libs.

 

[Karazenpo]

Old Fat Kenpoka wrote: Just trying to cut through the BS and speak what I think.


I say: You certainly do Alan! No flies on you!!!!!!!! Wonder why some can't see it that way? ,lol. Thanks, police everywhere appreciate that kind of support. I thank you, sir! Respectfully & Sincerely submitted, "Joe"

 

[rmcrobertson]

TOD is a lib? What's a lib?

I saw the tape last night....and two things seemed clear.

First, this big fat putz attacked the cops. And kept attacking them.

Second, the cops--not particularly in good shape themselves--looked as though they had no earthly idea how to use a baton. Somebody better acquainted with them might clear this up...but why the hell were they spearing away--pretty clumsily, it looked like to me--with the thing?

Looked to me as though they didn't even know how to swing the thing with any power, let alone use the batons to tie this idiot up. Reminded me of what one of my students told me--she's a C.O. out here, and at her last refresher on the use of the baton, the "martial artist," teaching the class made everybody yell, "ki-ai," when then swung...

 

[dearnis.com]

They responded as they were trained.....

Looked to me as though they didn't even know how to swing the thing with any power, let alone use the batons to tie this idiot up. Reminded me of what one of my students told me--she's a C.O. out here, and at her last refresher on the use of the baton, the "martial artist," teaching the class made everybody yell, "ki-ai," when then swung...

I have been reprimanded in baton training for striking too hard, and have been taught by ASP certified instructors that the baton is specifically NOT a grappling or restraint device.

Please remeber folks, that what officers are taught stems from a great many sources, not always from efficiency and safety.

Chad

 

[Pacificshore]

Hey, unless you walk in a pair of Cop boots, and know what it takes, keep your opinions based on the facts at hand, and not what should have or have not been done by the Police. Granted there are a few bad apples out there, but there are far MANY good hard working cops out their doing a job not many are cut out to do.

 

[OULobo]

Again, I'll say that I don't blame the officers for this guy's death. The heart condition is something that he should've thought of before he decided to get all F'ed up on any drugs, and "consume an unknown quantity of whitecastle burgers before the altercation" (that's a good one, I like it). I don't think they have the right to pummel him the way they did. As many people will tell you, law enforcment is not martial arts and there is such a thing as overkill. Hypothetical: What happens to a cop that shoots a guy with a knife, the guy drops and can't get up, but the knife is still in his hands, the cop empties the mag into him. That's not just overkill, its murder. Why stop from beating on him, um. . . because he could die. Okay, that's a cheap shot, because I already said it wasn't their fault he died, but then again maybe that's the only reason he stopped moving. When people hit me in the ribs or *** I start fighting back or at least protecting my ribs and ***, no matter who they are. If a cop hits me in the ribs and then tells me to put my hands behind my back and then hits me in the ribs again, then I ain't listening to him no more. I'm keeping my ribs from getting broken. Those cops didn't even give him the opportunity to comply, whether he would or not. I mean all I have to say to prove my point is, here we go, Rodney King. Let's not act like police brutality doesn't exist and sign up for the protect my brothers in blue newsletter. Without sounding the antithesis of Mike who said its not right to think "it's everyone else's fault but their own" let also not say "well its okay, he deserved it".
With respect, Karazenpo stated "Cops are not trained to fight fair, they are not trained to fight by the 'Queensbury Rules', they are trained to fight to WIN. A municipality or state spends tax dollars to train and equip officers to win, not lose." I disagree, they are trained to APPREHEND criminals to stand trial in court or at least that is what they are paid for by my tax dollars, not win, whatever that term is being applied for here. Who won in this confrontation. The suspect is dead, the cops are handed another black eye in public perception and the people in the surounding communities are pissed and ready for another riot.

 

[MisterMike]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
TOD is a lib? What's a lib?

I saw the tape last night....and two things seemed clear.

First, this big fat putz attacked the cops. And kept attacking them.

Second, the cops--not particularly in good shape themselves--looked as though they had no earthly idea how to use a baton. Somebody better acquainted with them might clear this up...but why the hell were they spearing away--pretty clumsily, it looked like to me--with the thing?

Looked to me as though they didn't even know how to swing the thing with any power, let alone use the batons to tie this idiot up. Reminded me of what one of my students told me--she's a C.O. out here, and at her last refresher on the use of the baton, the "martial artist," teaching the class made everybody yell, "ki-ai," when then swung...

OK - so that's what you saw. Now what is your point?

That they should have made Bruce Lee growls and twirled it more?

That you could have done a better job on the fat bastard?

or "not particularly in good shape themselves" means that since you did not approve of how they handled it they now deserve some sort of unwarranted jab at their physical characteristics (as compared to the assailant), which is as effective as saying "hey that lip ring really takes the focus off your fat behind" to the lady working the welfare counter.

 

[OULobo]

Originally posted by Pacificshore
Hey, unless you walk in a pair of Cop boots, and know what it takes, keep your opinions based on the facts at hand, and not what should have or have not been done by the Police. Granted there are a few bad apples out there, but there are far MANY good hard working cops out their doing a job not many are cut out to do.

Save the "if you aren't doing it keep your mouth shut" crap. It's not my job, its theirs and I'm helping pay their salary. I don't doubt there are great cops out there that do a great job, but I don't think that these are the guys. My opinion, just as yours, is one of many that shapes public policy and therefore is valid as an opinion, not a fact. Yes, there are "far many good hard working cops out their doing a job" and there are many hard working citizens that can and do catch a beating because the of the bad apples. That's why we have to vent our opinions and keep our eyes on their actions. the worst part is that by voicing my opinion in this matter, and trying to justify a dead man that I think was undeservedly smacked around, I will be seen a cop-hater or someone who doesn't deserve police protection. This isn't the case it is just that I believe in the rights of the citizen as much as the rights of the officers.

 

[OULobo]

Originally posted by OULobo
Save the "if you aren't doing it keep your mouth shut" crap. It's not my job, its theirs and I'm helping pay their salary. I don't doubt there are great cops out there that do a great job, but I don't think that these are the guys. My opinion, just as yours, is one of many that shapes public policy and therefore is valid as an opinion, not a fact. Yes, there are "far many good hard working cops out their doing a job" and there are many hard working citizens that can and do catch a beating because the of the bad apples. That's why we have to vent our opinions and keep our eyes on their actions. the worst part is that by voicing my opinion in this matter, and trying to justify a dead man that I think was undeservedly smacked around, I will be seen a cop-hater or someone who doesn't deserve police protection. This isn't the case it is just that I believe in the rights of the citizen as much as the rights of the officers.

Sorry, that may have come off as harsher than I planned when I typed it. I really just think things are getting a little distorted by "the blue haze".

 

[Michelle]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
Oh Brian, I said what killed him was putiing a 350 pound man on his stomach with his arms behind his back. The police know this, it happens all the time....Sean

TOD... I never heard of this. Is it just with extremely overweight people where this has a potential for being fatal? And how so? Is it from respiratory problems?

TIA
Michelle

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Michelle: It's just like when an elephant lies down: It's weight knocks the wind out of it's own lungs and the animal suffocates itself.

 

[OULobo]

Kinda like beached whales?

 

[Michelle]

Thank you for the response sir (OFK). So...... what we have is a situation where the fact he was 350 lbs is ultimately what led to his death. Throw me down at a buck twenty five and cuff me and I'm probably going to be okay, right? It was his weight.

But wait!! No!! Because he didn't suffocate. He had a heart attack. And he had a heart attack because he had heart disease.... and he had heart disease because he was overweight. On top of that, he was doing 2 drugs that are well known to cause heart arythmias even in people who are in good shape. And then he picks a fight.

When are we going to start holding people responsible for their own actions and stop blaming everyone else? The above scenario sounds more like involuntary suicide to me than anything else.

Okay. Let the flogging begin.
Michelle

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

I said it earlier: The guy was a big fat slob with heart disease on drugs who attacked some police officers in cold weather. That is the perfect recipe for a heart attack. If he had died shoveling snow it wouldn't be as controversial as if he attacked some white police officers.

 

[Pacificshore]

Originally posted by OULobo
I will be seen a cop-hater or someone who doesn't deserve police protection.

This is what separates those in L.E. from those who can't and won't put themselves in harms way day in and day out. Because even with your assessment made here, a Cop will see you as another citizen who has rights afforded to them, and will work hard to make sure they aren't trampled on by them or anyone else. So don't be surprised when you need one and they knock on your door. Last I knew, Cops pay taxes too, so I guess some of their salary is paid by them too.:soapbox:

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

7 Habits of Not Dead People

1) Don't get morbidly obese
2) Don't forget to take your psychiatric medications
3) Don't forget to take your heart medications
4) Don't do illegal recreational drugs
5) Don't attack police officers
6) Don't resist arrest
7) Don't eat too many cheeseburgers!!!

 

[OULobo]

Originally posted by Pacificshore
This is what separates those in L.E. from those who can't and won't put themselves in harms way day in and day out. Because even with your assessment made here, a Cop will see you as another citizen who has rights afforded to them, and will work hard to make sure they aren't trampled on by them or anyone else. So don't be surprised when you need one and they knock on your door.

I both thank them for that and expect it from them, it is, afterall, their job.

Originally posted by Pacificshore
Last I knew, Cops pay taxes too, so I guess some of their salary is paid by them too.:soapbox:

That they do and their opinon is just as valid as anyother taxpayer, no more or less.

 

[OULobo]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
7 Habits of Not Dead People

1) Don't get morbidly obese
2) Don't forget to take your psychiatric medications
3) Don't forget to take your heart medications
4) Don't do illegal recreational drugs
5) Don't attack police officers
6) Don't resist arrest
7) Don't eat too many cheeseburgers!!!

:rofl:

1) check
2) ch. . .ch. . .ch. . check
3)check
4) check
5) check
6) check
7) I'm workin on it

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Michelle
TOD... I never heard of this. Is it just with extremely overweight people where this has a potential for being fatal? And how so? Is it from respiratory problems?

TIA
Michelle

Michelle, I took a class from the Spokane police instructor on just this issue. Fat people have a tendancy to die on their stomachs in the back of police cars from either suffocation or a heart attack brought on by a struggle and labored breathing. As I've said before the police know about this possibility. The two officers landing on him at the same time couldn't have helped either. We have non lethal restraining technology and as a nation of overweight people we should probably consider the problem. However, I sense a belief that he deserved to die for being a "Fat Bastard" from people on this site and he should probably be killed for resisting arrest in the most racialy charged city in America. I can feel the love
Sean