Testing excellency program

[skribs]

I've attended three Taekwondo schools (one of them also had Hapkido) and BJJ. I've also done other arts that don't have a belt system, so I'm completely ignoring those. I'll start on one end of the spectrum, and work my way down:

• In BJJ, you get a stripe or belt when the Professor deems it so. It's at the end of class. Usually catches people by surprise, because of a lovely phenomenon known as Imposter Syndrome.
• In my first TKD school (as a kid), you passed or failed your test. That was it.
• In my second TKD school (where I did the bulk of my training), those who got mostly As on their test got an Outstanding, and those who got mostly Bs and Cs got a Pass. Pass/Outstanding was posted on the testing results (on the bulletin board and Facebook page). Colored belts who got Outstanding got a chevron patch for their arm. Black belts would have chevronless doboks, as "all Black Belts must be Outstanding." (That wasn't always the case). If you saw a red belt with 9 or more chevrons, you know they were a good student, or at least that they tested well. If you saw one with 5 chevrons, you don't know if they're above average, if they started great and petered out, or if they started poor and grew up.
• In my current TKD school, I've only judged observed one test so far, but I think I got the hang of it. This test is much more streamlined compared to my old school. Students get a number score of 1-3 (I'm not sure if 1 or 3 is best yet), which roughly translates to Outstanding, Pass, Fail. Those who get a 1 (or 3) on Forms get a "Best Form" patch, and those who get top mark for board breaking (which appears to be breaking on the first try) get a "Best Breaking" patch. This is roughly half of the test, the other pieces being a few kick combos, a few self-defense combos, and sparring.

On the one hand, I've heard it said that the two reasons people strive for excellence in martial arts is for (formal) testing and competition. The ones who work the hardest are the ones who want to take gold in a tournament, advance to higher levels of competition, or who are getting ready for a test and want to perform at their best. A similar concept is the biggest teaching tools can be the feedback given during a test or the losses (or at least struggles) in a competition.

With this in mind, it would make a lot of sense to have some sort of testing excellency program. Some students may just be happy with a "Pass". Others will want to get that reward that they can use to display their achievement of not just passing their test, but passing with flying colors. This type of program encourages students to excel.

On the other hand, I've already made clear my opinions on patches in another thread. Also, the question must be asked - is simply having pass/fail enough to encourage excellent on a test? Do I want students who got a "pass" for their brown belt instead of an outstanding to advance to brown belt?

I'm looking into various excellence-encouraging systems which I find at both my previous school and my current school, many of which aim at kids being better students in school and stewards at home. This falls in line with those, and it's something I thought I'd get more thoughts about.

 

[drop bear]

I know a gym that kind of does that. They have a ranking system that you have to win x amount of fights to get.

 

[wab25]

the two reasons people strive for excellence in martial arts is for (formal) testing and competition.

Where did you come up with this?

These may be your two reasons for wanting excellence in martial arts.... but that does not follow for everyone. There are many different reasons that people strive for excellence in martial arts.

is simply having pass/fail enough to encourage excellent on a test? Do I want students who got a "pass" for their brown belt instead of an outstanding to advance to brown belt?

You should not promote anyone to brown belt, unless they meet your requirements for brown belt. If someone can meet your requirements for brown belt, but you don't really want them to be a brown belt.... then its your requirements that need to change. (and if they don't meet your requirements... do not promote them)

I am not really a fan of wearing belts and holding ranks.... but I put up with it, as that is what my art and my organization does. However, I put more weight on how a person performs and how a person teaches, than I do on what belts, stripes, chevrons, titles... etc they may have. It is very easy for people to fall into the trap of thinking that out ranking someone else, makes them better than someone else... or even that they can fight....

Especially when dealing with kids. I do not want to have the kids rely on stripes, chevrons or even belts to know how good they are at the art or as a student. They should be learning to accept who they are, and be confident in who they are, with out relying on some outside influence to determine their worth. They should also be learning to look at the person, not all the fancy patches, belts, titles that the person is using to impress them.

 

[Dirty Dog]

On the one hand, I've heard it said that the two reasons people strive for excellence in martial arts is for (formal) testing and competition.

This is a pickup truck full of nonsense. Possibly even a dump truck.

 

[JowGaWolf]

On the one hand, I've heard it said that the two reasons people strive for excellence in martial arts is for (formal) testing and competition. The ones who work the hardest are the ones who want to take gold in a tournament, advance to higher levels of competition, or who are getting ready for a test and want to perform at their best. A similar concept is the biggest teaching tools can be the feedback given during a test or the losses (or at least struggles) in a competition.

With this in mind, it would make a lot of sense to have some sort of testing excellency program. Some students may just be happy with a "Pass". Others will want to get that reward that they can use to display their achievement of not just passing their test, but passing with flying colors. This type of program encourages students to excel.

The reasons people strive for excellence is probably because they are driven and motivated to be better. Formal testing is often about getting a belt. People chase belt colors so the sooner they can test the faster they will get their belt. With that said I'm not sure if there effort is more about status and less about excellence.

The other thing is motivation. People who strive for excellence are motivated and they will even get motivational coaches and personal trainers to help stay motivated.

People who like competition just want to win and by default that means outdoing your competition. The level of excellency just depends on what the goal is.

 

[skribs]

Where did you come up with this?

If you read the opening half of that sentence, you will hear "one thing I've heard."

I didn't come up with it.

But since you cant' be bothered to read an entire sentence I posted, I'm not going to bother to read any of the rest of your nonsense.

 

[skribs]

With that said I'm not sure if there effort is more about status and less about excellence.

If the status requires excellence, then excellence is at least involved in the goal-making process.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

On the one hand, I've heard it said that the two reasons people strive for excellence in martial arts is for (formal) testing and competition. The ones who work the hardest are the ones who want to take gold in a tournament, advance to higher levels of competition, or who are getting ready for a test and want to perform at their best.

A couple thoughts from my experience. I've never been at a school with a marking system for the test. 99% of the time everyone passed. I have seen though some fails which are sold to the parents as "conditional passes", with an informal retest in class in a week.

Personally my motivation has simply been to be better, or from a glass half-empty point of view, not look uncoordinated.

Although I never strived for tournament competition, I found the "sparring" classes geared to the "competition kids" the most rewarding.
- 1) only the best kids come, so the instructor gives more advanced skills.
- 2) There is no one steps, self defence, or patterns...just in effect kicking and maybe a few punches.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If the status requires excellence, then excellence is at least involved in the goal-making process.

But excellent in what? Class attendance, Or can I come to class some of the time so long as I out perform others in their forms? Or can I be bad in both of those but good on the actual use of the techniques being used?

if all I care about is a belt then I would train so that I look good doing things correctly. I wouldn't care about being able to fight using the techniques because the belt doesn't require it.

Excellency can be based on many things. I guess what I really want to know is what does it mean to you vs what it means to another school.

When I was teaching Jow Ga, applications and the ability to use the techniques in free sparring was and still is "Excellency" to me. But I don't require that everyone know how to fight with all of the techniques. Somethings people will be good at. Other things they won't be so good at.

 

[isshinryuronin]

The reasons people strive for excellence is probably because they are driven and motivated to be better.

IMO, this is THE reason one strives for excellence. To just get a new belt or other trinket of accomplishment may motivate one to be competent, but not be driven to pursue excellence. That drive must be internal and personal.

It may be to not let down a parent or teacher, to prove something, if not to others, at least to themselves. It may be just something they can do well, and they want to self-realize their potential. Or they simply enjoy it and rejoice in its performance and the way it makes them feel. For me, it's perhaps a combination of all these things. I say "perhaps" because I'm not really sure - I've never been to psycho analysis. Nor have I spent time self-analyzing. This post is the most I've thought about it during the past 55 years.

I've competed and like to win, but I'm not competitive. I like getting higher belts, but do not crave them.

TMA is not something I set out to be excellent at, but the longer I did it, the better I wanted to be. Why? I don't know. I just went with the flow - who am I to argue, especially with myself.

 

[HighKick]

If the status requires excellence, then excellence is at least involved in the goal-making process.

Are you saying 'minimum requirements' and 'excellence' are one and the same? If so, I agree with the assertion.
But I think you are talking about the people who go well beyond the minimum requirements.

 

[wab25]

If you read the opening half of that sentence, you will hear "one thing I've heard."

I didn't come up with it.

But since you cant' be bothered to read an entire sentence I posted, I'm not going to bother to read any of the rest of your nonsense.

I did read your entire sentence... read your entire post in fact.....

I asked "Where did you come up with this?" You are right, that is the wrong question. You are completely right.... its something that you heard. So, let me rephrase my question....

Where did you hear this and who did you hear this from? You seem to be basing a lot on something you heard.... it would be nice to know who you heard it from.

That said, I believe there are many more reasons for people to strive for excellence.

 

[andyjeffries]

It has always felt to me that kids care about their mark/percentage, adults just care about getting the next belt. Maybe that's the reason that Kukkiwon doesn't give a percentage mark for Dan tests (the adults of Taekwondo belts, whereas coloured belts are metaphorical children in the lifetime of Taekwondo) - it's either 55% for fail or 60% for pass. If someone did absolutely exceptionally, they get 60% still.

 

[Balrog]

I've attended three Taekwondo schools (one of them also had Hapkido) and BJJ. I've also done other arts that don't have a belt system, so I'm completely ignoring those. I'll start on one end of the spectrum, and work my way down:

• In BJJ, you get a stripe or belt when the Professor deems it so. It's at the end of class. Usually catches people by surprise, because of a lovely phenomenon known as Imposter Syndrome.
• In my first TKD school (as a kid), you passed or failed your test. That was it....snip...

That's the way it is in my style. When I was actively running my school, we tested on a regular basis. If I didn't think a student was ready, I wouldn't give them permission to test. And every once in a while, a student would have a bad hair day and not promote.

Those were teachable moments. They learned to accept setbacks, work harder and overcome them.