It's funny that you mention this. My wife is Japanese, and last week we were watching some TV shows her mom recorded and sent from home. One of my wife's favorite shows is called "Gachinko" which has a segment called "Fight Club". This segment follows a bunch of pro boxer wannabe's as they are trained by a former World Champ boxer (no, I don't remember his name, some Japanese lightweight). Anyway, back onto point, I remember thinking it odd that they kept referring to the punches in Japanified english. A body cross became a "body straighto", jabs were "jabu", and uppercuts were shortened to "uppa". So I can't speak for China or Korea, but at least one place in Japan they do use the english names for teaching boxing techniques.
It's funny that you mention this. My wife is Japanese, and last week we were watching some TV shows her mom recorded and sent from home. One of my wife's favorite shows is called "Gachinko" which has a segment called "Fight Club". This segment follows a bunch of pro boxer wannabe's as they are trained by a former World Champ boxer (no, I don't remember his name, some Japanese lightweight). Anyway, back onto point, I remember thinking it odd that they kept referring to the punches in Japanified english. A body cross became a "body straighto", jabs were "jabu", and uppercuts were shortened to "uppa". So I can't speak for China or Korea, but at least one place in Japan they do use the english names for teaching boxing techniques.
Patrick McCarthy discusses the improtance of understanding the culture in which kata arose in order to understand their significance and meaning in the current "Martial Arts Presents...Masters of Karate" (May 2002). He makes a good acse for knowing something about the Japanese and Okinawan mindset. The article is recommended reading for all interested in Okinawan karate.
OP
Andi
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #23
Hey at least knowing how to count from 1-10 in 58 different languages gives you something else to think about while you're doing your situps! 
Andi
Andi
OP
islandtime
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #24
....................................................................................
When I was studying "Texas Tae Kwon Do" the only Korean I heard was the bow in and start commands. I felt I was missing something but I didn;t know what.
Now, I study Iaido and ALL the commands and techniiques are in Japanese. There is very little English used. In lots of areas I have no idea what the translation is as the Japanese is more precise. Now when I go to a seminar and there are people from Japan instructing I will at least have some idea what they are talking about.
The culture and the language go hand in hand for Japanese Sword Arts. One teaches the other and they exist on the same plane
Gene Gabel
karatekid1975
Master Black Belt
In my last school, we did learn Korean Term. And it was required for tests. I think it's cool to learn the laguage and culture of the country your art came from. My instructor used to say the Korean term and the english term together, so it would be easier for beginners as well as advanced students. But for some of the advanced classes (for 1st gup and BB's), he would just say the Korean term (by then, they should know it).
He used to joke about the Korean term being pronounced with a spanish accent lol. He was cool about it if you didn't understand him, though.
But my new school, it's not required and they don't use it, except for bowing, attention, and return/relax.
So, I would say it depends on the instructor/school.
He used to joke about the Korean term being pronounced with a spanish accent lol. He was cool about it if you didn't understand him, though.
But my new school, it's not required and they don't use it, except for bowing, attention, and return/relax.
So, I would say it depends on the instructor/school.
Kempojujutsu
Master Black Belt
To me I am in it for the combat aspect and I teach the english language in class. If I were of Asian descent I would proably teach that foreign language. Here is something else I like to here about. Do you bow to a foreign flag. To me this is more important than do you teach a foreign language. In my school we have only one flag and that is "Old Glory" The United States Flag. We have been doing that for years, and with 9-11 to me it is more important now. Let's here your feed back.
Bob Thomas:uzi: :tank: :ak47:
Bob Thomas:uzi: :tank: :ak47:
karatekid1975
Master Black Belt
In my TSD school, we had the American Flag on the left, the IMA flag in the middle, and the Korean flag on the right. The American flag stood for our country, and the Korean flag stood for where the art came from. We saluted (not bowed) by putting our right hand to our heart before going on the dojang (school) floor and after saying the student oath. I never seen this before and I thought it was the strangest thing for a MA school, but I think the meaning behind the reason they did this was awsome. It's a sign of respect for America (of course) and for the country where the art came from.
OP
Chiduce
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #28
I ran across this interesting article in the current issue of the Martials Arts Professional Magazine. " Judge Rules Bowing does not violate Freedom of Religion": Requiring judo contestants to bow to the mat before a picture of the founder of the japanese martial art (Kano) does not violate freedom of religion, a federal judge has ruled. In a 13 page decision U.S. District Judge Robert S. Lasnik dissolved an injuction that allowed James and Leilani Akiyama, 17 and 14, and Jay Drangeld, 40 all of Bellevue, WA, to compete in the United States since 1997 without observing the ritual. Lansky rejected their assertion that mandatory bowing violates the Civil Rights Act of 1964, writing that they failed to show an intent to discriminate on the basis of religon. " virtually any restriction or regulation imposed by public accommodation could impinge upon a person/s religious beliefs... are of the individual adherent's own making, he wrote". " I'am very pleased, Jim Bregman, president of the U.S. Judo Association, said. "It's clear the bow in judo is simply a respectful act, like a handshake in wrestling". This decision will is be assumed to answer the question of bowing in the dojo to a picture, statue of buddha, a flag both foreign and the dojo's presiding country, student to student, and student to instructor! In this case the judge clearly clarifies and states that it is only the individual not deciding to adhere to dojo rules and regulations! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!
Turner
Blue Belt
And I am very dismayed. No matter each individuals personal opinion on bowing, this is an issue between them and their God. This is a matter of Church, not state. Just because the Government says it is right and good to do something doesn't necessarily mean that the church will agree. I feel sorry for all of the (now former) judo-ka, that because of their beliefs (again, whether you believe them to be right or wrong) will not be able to participate and grow because of the class and tournaments.
Any instructor who would deny potentials students the right to practice in his school because they feel that it offends their gods (whoever it may be) to bow, is doing a great disservice to the potential student and to the art itself. It may now be legal to discriminate against a person based on their belief, but it is not in any way shape or form right. Those of these religions will (If they truly believe) place their gods law above mans law and so will not practice and the arts will not have the positive impact on that persons life and that person will find it harder to reach their potential.
I think of all the students lives I have provided a spark that grew to a love of the martial arts. I think of all the friends that I have made and all of the great memories that I cherish and all those that I will make in the future... and I am very thankful that the instructors that got me to where I am today didn't require that I bow. Being selfish, I think about all that I would miss out on. And then being not so selfish, I think of all the people that would miss out because I wouldn't be where I am or won't be where I am in the future in order to share with them what I have and will learned... not only about martial arts, but about life.
We can argue about whether it is right or not to bow all day long and if we are passionate about our beliefs neither one of us will be swayed... but in the end it doesn't matter. It just matters between each person and their god. The law of man and the opinions of others are so very inconcequential to the relationship between a person and his god. When we make rules that would exclude others, we better make sure those rules are for the right reason. What would Jigaro Kano think if he found out that people couldn't practice his art because of something like a bow? Knowing the passion and the love of the martial arts that he must have had, I bet that he would be mortified. This isn't about a lack of respect for the man. It isn't about disobeying rules or not showing respect. Its about someone's relationship with their God and someone else's ego being so huge or them being so closeminded that they can't accept that someone has a different set of beliefs that are just as valid as their own. I respect Jigaro Kano because of what I've read about him, but I won't bow to him because I love my God more than I love the practice of the martial arts.
But bowing isn't the point of this thread.. I think there is another thread where it would be more appropriate. (Martial Arts and Christianity) Terminology is an issue that I don't like because I feel it is a waste of time, when my intention is to learn (now teach) people how to save their lives... and I take that very seriously. But I find nothing inherently wrong with learning terminology so I know how to count from 1-100 in japanese, 1-10 in korean, I know all of the japanese terms for strikes and a very words otherwise... I've no problem with that being a requirement. As people have said, it is fun to learn a little bit of a language and culture. Its a little bit more knowledge.. and if your class isn't real serious about teaching self defense and getting people ready to defend themselves, its great to fill the time with tiny language lessons. But if someone came into my school and i taught a foreign language and they said it was against their religious beliefs.. i wouldn't quite understand it, but I definately wouldn't ban them from my class. I want to teach my art. I think that everyone needs to learn the things that the study of combat has to offer and I want to share it with everyone that I can. It is so utterly beyond my comprehension why someone would ban a student from their class/tournament based on something that could so easily be compromised. Where is the honor and respect on their part?
Any instructor who would deny potentials students the right to practice in his school because they feel that it offends their gods (whoever it may be) to bow, is doing a great disservice to the potential student and to the art itself. It may now be legal to discriminate against a person based on their belief, but it is not in any way shape or form right. Those of these religions will (If they truly believe) place their gods law above mans law and so will not practice and the arts will not have the positive impact on that persons life and that person will find it harder to reach their potential.
I think of all the students lives I have provided a spark that grew to a love of the martial arts. I think of all the friends that I have made and all of the great memories that I cherish and all those that I will make in the future... and I am very thankful that the instructors that got me to where I am today didn't require that I bow. Being selfish, I think about all that I would miss out on. And then being not so selfish, I think of all the people that would miss out because I wouldn't be where I am or won't be where I am in the future in order to share with them what I have and will learned... not only about martial arts, but about life.
We can argue about whether it is right or not to bow all day long and if we are passionate about our beliefs neither one of us will be swayed... but in the end it doesn't matter. It just matters between each person and their god. The law of man and the opinions of others are so very inconcequential to the relationship between a person and his god. When we make rules that would exclude others, we better make sure those rules are for the right reason. What would Jigaro Kano think if he found out that people couldn't practice his art because of something like a bow? Knowing the passion and the love of the martial arts that he must have had, I bet that he would be mortified. This isn't about a lack of respect for the man. It isn't about disobeying rules or not showing respect. Its about someone's relationship with their God and someone else's ego being so huge or them being so closeminded that they can't accept that someone has a different set of beliefs that are just as valid as their own. I respect Jigaro Kano because of what I've read about him, but I won't bow to him because I love my God more than I love the practice of the martial arts.
But bowing isn't the point of this thread.. I think there is another thread where it would be more appropriate. (Martial Arts and Christianity) Terminology is an issue that I don't like because I feel it is a waste of time, when my intention is to learn (now teach) people how to save their lives... and I take that very seriously. But I find nothing inherently wrong with learning terminology so I know how to count from 1-100 in japanese, 1-10 in korean, I know all of the japanese terms for strikes and a very words otherwise... I've no problem with that being a requirement. As people have said, it is fun to learn a little bit of a language and culture. Its a little bit more knowledge.. and if your class isn't real serious about teaching self defense and getting people ready to defend themselves, its great to fill the time with tiny language lessons. But if someone came into my school and i taught a foreign language and they said it was against their religious beliefs.. i wouldn't quite understand it, but I definately wouldn't ban them from my class. I want to teach my art. I think that everyone needs to learn the things that the study of combat has to offer and I want to share it with everyone that I can. It is so utterly beyond my comprehension why someone would ban a student from their class/tournament based on something that could so easily be compromised. Where is the honor and respect on their part?
Turner
Blue Belt
On the subject of bowing (showing respect) to a foreign flag. Many schools will have both the United States and the flag of the arts origin on the wall. If your religious beliefs allow you to bow, then I see no problem with showing respect to the foreign country... even the enemies of your country, is also important.
I am an USAF veteran and I currently work for the US Army. In order to do my job properly I must have respect for my enemy because if I lose respect I will begin to dehumanize him and that will lead to my underestimating him and that will enable him to catch me by surprise and he will gain a win.
A salute or to otherwise show respect for a foreign countries flag is not a bad thing, it shows that you respect the culture and the conditions in which the creator of your art developed it. How and where s/he lived was very important in the development of the art. Respect that.
-----------------
To continue with my rant about bowing, I'd like to you to consider one little point. There are a lot of Kenpo people on this forum and we owe a lot to Mr. Parker. The members of this forum who have met and trained with him will have to verify, but didn't his religious beliefs forbid him to bow? I realize that those beliefs permitted him to bow to inanimate objects only, but in most classes the majority of the bowing is done to the instructor and to peers. Now, consider how huge an impact Mr. Parker had on the martial arts world and then to all of those lucky 1st generation students whose very lives were shaped and molded by his guidance. Jump into the alter universe where Mr. Chow told young Mr. Parker to go away because his religious beliefs forbade him from bowing to the man. I don't think many of the Kenpo people will want to even try to imagine that.
Is my desire to keep both my relationship with my God and my training in the martial arts a bad thing? Is my passion, appreciation and respect for those around me not apparent in my words and actions? Is a bend at the waist and lowering of my head the only manner to convey respect, humility, and appreciation? Can you look deep in your heart and then honestly tell me that I don't deserve to learn the martial arts because I show a little courage and integrity and stand up for what I believe is right. How can you possibly use this law to justify turning away someone that would be your student/friend... someone that might enrich your life? Would that be good and just to you or them?
I am an USAF veteran and I currently work for the US Army. In order to do my job properly I must have respect for my enemy because if I lose respect I will begin to dehumanize him and that will lead to my underestimating him and that will enable him to catch me by surprise and he will gain a win.
A salute or to otherwise show respect for a foreign countries flag is not a bad thing, it shows that you respect the culture and the conditions in which the creator of your art developed it. How and where s/he lived was very important in the development of the art. Respect that.
-----------------
To continue with my rant about bowing, I'd like to you to consider one little point. There are a lot of Kenpo people on this forum and we owe a lot to Mr. Parker. The members of this forum who have met and trained with him will have to verify, but didn't his religious beliefs forbid him to bow? I realize that those beliefs permitted him to bow to inanimate objects only, but in most classes the majority of the bowing is done to the instructor and to peers. Now, consider how huge an impact Mr. Parker had on the martial arts world and then to all of those lucky 1st generation students whose very lives were shaped and molded by his guidance. Jump into the alter universe where Mr. Chow told young Mr. Parker to go away because his religious beliefs forbade him from bowing to the man. I don't think many of the Kenpo people will want to even try to imagine that.
Is my desire to keep both my relationship with my God and my training in the martial arts a bad thing? Is my passion, appreciation and respect for those around me not apparent in my words and actions? Is a bend at the waist and lowering of my head the only manner to convey respect, humility, and appreciation? Can you look deep in your heart and then honestly tell me that I don't deserve to learn the martial arts because I show a little courage and integrity and stand up for what I believe is right. How can you possibly use this law to justify turning away someone that would be your student/friend... someone that might enrich your life? Would that be good and just to you or them?
See this thread for more on the bowing in judo story.
I must agree with the judge--it's a traditional part of the art that's comparable to handshaking.
I must agree with the judge--it's a traditional part of the art that's comparable to handshaking.
old_sempai
Green Belt
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2002
- Messages
- 156
- Reaction score
- 3
:asian:
:soapbox:
Well, here I go:
In the orient people would bow instead of shaking hands, the reasons for this are found in their culture, it was, and still is a demonstration of respect. Bowing to a portrait is merely a variant. There is no religious overtone inferred. Similarly in some European and in Arab cultures people greet each other by kissing each other on the cheek. Does that mean they are not heterosexual? Not at all. All of this is a matter of culture, nothing more. For anyone to interprete it as being something other wise is very misinformed. Just as those who state have us believe that the US Constitution endorses a separation of "church and state." It makes not such statement! Instead it defines the fact that no religion shall take precendent over another, nor should the government have the right to restrict its being taught. And if there is any question of validity of this, then take the time and read the Constitution.
As for language and terms I offer the words of Mr. David Lynch, a contributing author to Aikido Journal: There is nothing written that states that the study of any particular martial Art with a goal of achieving Enlightenment is restricted to only those of a certain culture, language, people or religion." He further states that there is no change in the execution of a technique regardless of whether it is called: "Kotegashi or wrist throw." For my part the temper line of a sword remains the same, regardless of language.
I await the firestorm.
:asian:
:soapbox:
Well, here I go:
In the orient people would bow instead of shaking hands, the reasons for this are found in their culture, it was, and still is a demonstration of respect. Bowing to a portrait is merely a variant. There is no religious overtone inferred. Similarly in some European and in Arab cultures people greet each other by kissing each other on the cheek. Does that mean they are not heterosexual? Not at all. All of this is a matter of culture, nothing more. For anyone to interprete it as being something other wise is very misinformed. Just as those who state have us believe that the US Constitution endorses a separation of "church and state." It makes not such statement! Instead it defines the fact that no religion shall take precendent over another, nor should the government have the right to restrict its being taught. And if there is any question of validity of this, then take the time and read the Constitution.
As for language and terms I offer the words of Mr. David Lynch, a contributing author to Aikido Journal: There is nothing written that states that the study of any particular martial Art with a goal of achieving Enlightenment is restricted to only those of a certain culture, language, people or religion." He further states that there is no change in the execution of a technique regardless of whether it is called: "Kotegashi or wrist throw." For my part the temper line of a sword remains the same, regardless of language.
I await the firestorm.
:asian:
OP
Kirk
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #33
Tell that to Mrs. O'Hare.
karatekid1975
Master Black Belt
Hiya Old_Sempai.
No fire storm here. I totally agree. Well, put
No fire storm here. I totally agree. Well, put
OP
Chiduce
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #35
Well put sir! I agree. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!
Turner
Blue Belt
I totally agree with you sempai... strange, huh? It is a matter of culture. In the Japanese culture, bowing is the same as shaking hands in our culture. I'm not Japanese and so it is not my culture to bow... Now, my religion is my religion and as you said "Instead it (The constitution) defines the fact that no religion shall take precendent over another..." If I say that bowing is an offense to my God and you turn around and say that this judge is right... you are allowing the tradition and culture... something I consider lesser than a person's faith... to take precedence over my religion. Is this right?
I find nothing wrong legally with the Judges declaration. A private club, like a Judo Club or the Boy Scouts, has the right to turn away members that can't abide by the rules of the organization. I've been turned away from Judo Clubs because I don't feel it is right to bow. I have no problem walking away from the class... I am not forced to take the class nor do I want to force the instructor to teach me when I go against their beliefs.
I have the problem with the character (lack thereof) in turning a person away from the study of an art who really wants to learn, but is unable, because of a personal belief and conviction, to compromise. The instructor takes an arrogant stance in stating that the traditions and cultures have precedence over a man's relationship with his god.
I think this issue is about ego. What does it hurt an instructor to allow a person to show respect and humility in his own way... by offering a salutation or etc... The same amount of courtesy is shown, the same amount of respect is shown, as is humility. So why can't the instructor compromise? Ok, lets look at the person who wishes to train, but is turned away. If s/he believes deep in his/her heart that his/her God takes offense when s/he bows to someone... then performing a bow would damage/break the relationship between the person and their God... so harm is done. So which should compromise? Why isn't it obvious that it should be the person that is hurt the least? Ego.
Does it matter that you don't believe that bowing is wrong. Does it matter that you can't comprehend how it would offend your God or how any God would take offense? I don't demand that you stop bowing. I don't demand that you show respect in your way. I respect you enough to allow you to show it in your own way, but it certainly feels as if you don't respect me and my beliefs to allow me to show it in my way.
Complete seperation of church and state is bad as is dependancy of the state on the church and vice versa. History tells us that. But to say that the two are equal is wrong. My beliefs tell me to obey the laws of my government, but to obey the laws of my God first. My relationship with my God is of the utmost importance to me. If I was forced to bow before the president or someone ranked higher than me on the punishment of death I would choose death. Why? Because I believe that my body is temporary while my soul is eternal. I would rather suffer for a little to have peace ever after than to keep my head and live a little long and then have eternal agony. The law can't determine what is right and wrong for me.. only my heart can do that. Luckily I am not being forced to bow.. I have the opportunity to walk away from a class and not offend my god and I have made use of that right, but it saddens me because ever since I was young it had been a dream of mine to learn judo, but never had the opportunity to go to a dojo... I pressed on and trained in other martial arts but maintained that desire to train in that particular one... when I finally had the opportunity a man crushed that dream by turning me away from the class because my beliefs wouldn't allow me to conform to the ways of the instructor... That is the first time I had ever been stopped by another man. How many people know what that is like? How many people know what it is like to have a desire and to believe is so possible only to have another human being rip all possibilities away. I had always taught that a person can acheive anything if they only gave it there all. I can't give hope to people any more. How can I possibly encourage the young under my care by saying that they can make their dreams come true if they only try hard enough, because obviously another human being can utterly crush it and destroy it without consideration or respect for me.
So, I have to live with it. I normally wouldn't debate issues, normally I wouldn't protest... Its not something that I do. I have known since I was a child that I would be discriminated/persecuted because of my beliefs. My Bible tells me that I would be... I was forewarned. I know its not possible to allow you to see with my eyes and to think with my head. My words can't share with you how much I was wounded when I was turned away from the Judo school. Diversity is what makes the world turn. I respect what you believe and walk away because I am not welcome due to my beliefs. That is the way the world is.
I find nothing wrong legally with the Judges declaration. A private club, like a Judo Club or the Boy Scouts, has the right to turn away members that can't abide by the rules of the organization. I've been turned away from Judo Clubs because I don't feel it is right to bow. I have no problem walking away from the class... I am not forced to take the class nor do I want to force the instructor to teach me when I go against their beliefs.
I have the problem with the character (lack thereof) in turning a person away from the study of an art who really wants to learn, but is unable, because of a personal belief and conviction, to compromise. The instructor takes an arrogant stance in stating that the traditions and cultures have precedence over a man's relationship with his god.
I think this issue is about ego. What does it hurt an instructor to allow a person to show respect and humility in his own way... by offering a salutation or etc... The same amount of courtesy is shown, the same amount of respect is shown, as is humility. So why can't the instructor compromise? Ok, lets look at the person who wishes to train, but is turned away. If s/he believes deep in his/her heart that his/her God takes offense when s/he bows to someone... then performing a bow would damage/break the relationship between the person and their God... so harm is done. So which should compromise? Why isn't it obvious that it should be the person that is hurt the least? Ego.
Does it matter that you don't believe that bowing is wrong. Does it matter that you can't comprehend how it would offend your God or how any God would take offense? I don't demand that you stop bowing. I don't demand that you show respect in your way. I respect you enough to allow you to show it in your own way, but it certainly feels as if you don't respect me and my beliefs to allow me to show it in my way.
Complete seperation of church and state is bad as is dependancy of the state on the church and vice versa. History tells us that. But to say that the two are equal is wrong. My beliefs tell me to obey the laws of my government, but to obey the laws of my God first. My relationship with my God is of the utmost importance to me. If I was forced to bow before the president or someone ranked higher than me on the punishment of death I would choose death. Why? Because I believe that my body is temporary while my soul is eternal. I would rather suffer for a little to have peace ever after than to keep my head and live a little long and then have eternal agony. The law can't determine what is right and wrong for me.. only my heart can do that. Luckily I am not being forced to bow.. I have the opportunity to walk away from a class and not offend my god and I have made use of that right, but it saddens me because ever since I was young it had been a dream of mine to learn judo, but never had the opportunity to go to a dojo... I pressed on and trained in other martial arts but maintained that desire to train in that particular one... when I finally had the opportunity a man crushed that dream by turning me away from the class because my beliefs wouldn't allow me to conform to the ways of the instructor... That is the first time I had ever been stopped by another man. How many people know what that is like? How many people know what it is like to have a desire and to believe is so possible only to have another human being rip all possibilities away. I had always taught that a person can acheive anything if they only gave it there all. I can't give hope to people any more. How can I possibly encourage the young under my care by saying that they can make their dreams come true if they only try hard enough, because obviously another human being can utterly crush it and destroy it without consideration or respect for me.
So, I have to live with it. I normally wouldn't debate issues, normally I wouldn't protest... Its not something that I do. I have known since I was a child that I would be discriminated/persecuted because of my beliefs. My Bible tells me that I would be... I was forewarned. I know its not possible to allow you to see with my eyes and to think with my head. My words can't share with you how much I was wounded when I was turned away from the Judo school. Diversity is what makes the world turn. I respect what you believe and walk away because I am not welcome due to my beliefs. That is the way the world is.
old_sempai
Green Belt
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2002
- Messages
- 156
- Reaction score
- 3
:asian:
I'm not looking to debate anyone, but choose to provide insight into the differences that exists between various cultures, and the practices of each. Further I also accept that if someone elects not to bow because of personal beliefs then that is their choice, and I will not infringe or criticize their decision.
As for the individual that does criticize or refuses to accept the personal opinions or beliegs of another, then they are not worthy to be a teacher, since to be one requires at the very least:
Empathy.
:asian: :asian:
I'm not looking to debate anyone, but choose to provide insight into the differences that exists between various cultures, and the practices of each. Further I also accept that if someone elects not to bow because of personal beliefs then that is their choice, and I will not infringe or criticize their decision.
As for the individual that does criticize or refuses to accept the personal opinions or beliegs of another, then they are not worthy to be a teacher, since to be one requires at the very least:
Empathy.
:asian: :asian:
While there is a protocol as to who offers the hand first in a handshake, there is more subtlety and range in the respect and deference shown by a bow. The handshake started as a demonstration of weaponless hands matter, while the bow shows respevt in the greeting, as the lower-ranked person will bow mroe deeply or possibly more often. That is to say, I disagree that bowing is just like a handshake, and so I can see where there could be a religious or principled objection--but it is what substitutes for or represents the handshake in that culture, and at the relevant times, when the arts were being developed, was the only greeting protocol available. But the handshake does not show as much directional respect--one cannot "handshake to" someone or something, but one can bow to someone or something. That's a difference.
Overall I concur that requiring bowing is not an overly onerous requirement.
Overall I concur that requiring bowing is not an overly onerous requirement.
OP
WaterCircleHarmony
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #39
When i was a white belt. My instructor (4th Degree) bowed to us FIRST! Even though the rest of the class had no MA experiences b4, they were not TOLD to bow but picked it up by observance of the other coloured belts. The instructor didn't say anything but smile politely bow if you approached him. If you didn't bow then no big deal, you'd realise later and start doing it anyway. It was never enforced. He explained, respect is mutual. the instructor respects the student as much as the student should respect the instructor. By doing this and through his humility he has EARN'T my respect!
Courtesy, and integrity guys.:karate:
Courtesy, and integrity guys.:karate:
Damian Mavis
Master Black Belt
I teach a Korean art, and I feel that using some Korean terminology is good but it shouldn't be required. People will learn some of the language just from hearing you speak/command it over and over as the time goes by...no need to push it in my opinion.
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
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