Tang Yik Dummy Form

[wckf92]

Makes me wonder if Yip Man learned it or saw it in that dai duk lan alleyway or whatever. Or, perhaps, if he and Tang Yik knew each other, he learned TY's form, only to strip it down later in life(?). Or Sum Nung's? YKS's?
Geez said the LT form was about 28 movements...but TY's is / was quite long.

 

[KPM]

Makes me wonder if Yip Man learned it or saw it in that dai duk lan alleyway or whatever. Or, perhaps, if he and Tang Yik knew each other, he learned TY's form, only to strip it down later in life(?). Or Sum Nung's? YKS's?
Geez said the LT form was about 28 movements...but TY's is / was quite long.

No. I don't think Ip Man ever learned the Tang Yik Pole. If he had, today's Wing Chun pole form would likely be much different! Its not just that the form is longer, the form uses different mechanics. I've written about that aspect here before. I have not seen the actual YKS/SN pole form. But it would not surprise me at all to find that Ip Man's pole was a version of YKS's. And don't be fooled! There was a video of a YKS guy going around showing his pole form. He had very obviously copied this (and not very well) from that old B&W footage of Tang Yik himself doing the form.

 

[Punchy]

@geezer and @yak sao
I wonder if you two's pole form would be the same since you both learned it from students of LT(?).
From reading forums and such, and from posts of Geezer, I've learned that there are many different 'LT'-type organizations out there; as well as differences in Europe-based WT vs HK-based(?). Is that accurate?

As for LT's kneeling horse...if he incorporated it into his drills, you'd think he would have added it into his forms(?).

Steve (geezer) and I have never met but I would imagine our forms are pretty close if not identical.
As mentioned previously, I learned the form from a Hong Kong source who learned the form from LT in the 1970's.
A few weeks ago I trained with a guy who had received his training at the castle in Germany in the late 1980's and the forms were the same.

 

[Nobody Important]

No. I don't think Ip Man ever learned the Tang Yik Pole. If he had, today's Wing Chun pole form would likely be much different! Its not just that the form is longer, the form uses different mechanics. I've written about that aspect here before. I have not seen the actual YKS/SN pole form. But it would not surprise me at all to find that Ip Man's pole was a version of YKS's. And don't be fooled! There was a video of a YKS guy going around showing his pole form. He had very obviously copied this (and not very well) from that old B&W footage of Tang Yik himself doing the form.

Yuen family pole is not much different than what I've seen of Yip Man pole. But it also has some similarity with first 3rd of Tang Yik pole, technique wise. Yuen family pole has 4 major sections. Most only perform first 3, why I don't know. 4th section is performed walking back & forth moving pole up & down vertically, similar to Tang Yik. Form is done on both sides to cover 8 directions.

 

[Nobody Important]

So, does nobody on here from Yip Man lineage have the kneeling horse anywhere in there forms (?)

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Yuen family pole has kneeling sequence.

 

[geezer]

I wonder if you two's pole form would be the same since you both learned it from students of LT(?).
From reading forums and such, and from posts of Geezer, I've learned that there are many different 'LT'-type organizations out there; as well as differences in Europe-based WT vs HK-based(?). Is that accurate?

I'm guessing that Yak and I learned the same form --the actual form as taught by LT. Some other groups that split off from WT completed their instruction using material from other sources, even thought they may still use the WT spelling, style of uniform, etc.

As for LT's kneeling horse...if he incorporated it into his drills, you'd think he would have added it into his forms(?).

Nope. LT insisted that he teaches the form as he learned it. And his form is very succinct. Drills and applications go way beyond the movements in the form itself.

 

[wckf92]

Yuen family pole has kneeling sequence.

Awesome. Thx dude!

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[wckf92]

Yuen family pole is not much different than what I've seen of Yip Man pole. But it also has some similarity with first 3rd of Tang Yik pole, technique wise. Yuen family pole has 4 major sections. Most only perform first 3, why I don't know. 4th section is performed walking back & forth moving pole up & down vertically, similar to Tang Yik. Form is done on both sides to cover 8 directions.

@Nobody Important
Do you mean that Yuen family practitioners only perform the first 3 sections of their form?
It's interesting to hear they train the form both sides.

 

[Nobody Important]

@Nobody Important
Do you mean that Yuen family practitioners only perform the first 3 sections of their form?
It's interesting to hear they train the form both sides.

Yeah, for some reason the walking section is not done very often. It's this section that contains the kneeling part. I've heard that it's because they wanted to emulate Yip Man pole for demo purposes, but that's just a rumor. There are actually 3 pole sets. The 6 1/2 point pole (4 sections, there may be more sections but I learned & only know of 4), short pole (double headed) & 3 1/2 point pole (which is first 3 sections 6 1/2 point pole, one side only, nearly identical to Yip Man pole). I think the short pole is from Sum Nung, but not sure as I don't know it. From my understanding Tang Yik pole is from Fung Siu Ching, Fung was a teacher of Yuen Family.

 

[wckf92]

Yeah, for some reason the walking section is not done very often. It's this section that contains the kneeling part. I've heard that it's because they wanted to emulate Yip Man pole for demo purposes, but that's just a rumor. There are actually 3 pole sets. The 6 1/2 point pole (4 sections, there may be more sections but I learned & only know of 4), short pole (double headed) & 3 1/2 point pole (which is first 3 sections 6 1/2 point pole, one side only, nearly identical to Yip Man pole). I think the short pole is from Sum Nung, but not sure as I don't know it. From my understanding Tang Yik pole is from Fung Siu Ching, Fung was a teacher of Yuen Family.

Awesome. Thx N.I.! Yeah, the kneeling horse is in the last section of mine as well.



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[Vajramusti]

Makes me wonder if Yip Man learned it or saw it in that dai duk lan alleyway or whatever. Or, perhaps, if he and Tang Yik knew each other, he learned TY's form, only to strip it down later in life(?). Or Sum Nung's? YKS's?
Geez said the LT form was about 28 movements...but TY's is / was quite long.

-----------------------------------------------
IpMan's kwan work was/is Ip Man's kwan work
s

 

[KPM]

-----------------------------------------------
IpMan's kwan work was/is Ip Man's kwan work
s

Oh? So you are saying he made it all up himself???

 

[Vajramusti]

Oh? So you are saying he made it all up himself???

---------------------------------------------------------
I said nothing of the sort.Read carefully rather than making sloppy inferences
You are missing the context---Ip Man's wing chun has nothing substantial to do with
Yick-weng chun, or sum nung-yks
Ip Man wing chun is Ip Man wing chun= Ip Man wing chun and not weng chun or .yuen kay shan
wingchun.

 

[KPM]

---------------------------------------------------------
I said nothing of the sort.Read carefully rather than making sloppy inferences
You are missing the context---Ip Man's wing chun has nothing substantial to do with
Yick-weng chun, or sum nung-yks
Ip Man wing chun is Ip Man wing chun= Ip Man wing chun and not weng chun or .yuen kay shan
wingchun.

Ok. Where did he learn his pole? I was following the context just fine. Suggestions where thrown out on who might have influenced Ip Man's pole method, then you posted and said it was "all his own." He had to learn it somewhere, didn't he? No "sloppy inference" there at all! Your comment was rather "sloppy" and vague. Your typical "one-liner" rather than explaining what you mean or elaborating on your point.

 

[Vajramusti]

Ok. Where did he learn his pole? I was following the context just fine. Suggestions where thrown out on who might have influenced Ip Man's pole method, then you posted and said it was "all his own." He had to learn it somewhere, didn't he? No "sloppy inference" there at all! Your comment was rather "sloppy" and vague. Your typical "one-liner" rather than explaining what you mean or elaborating on your point.

------------------------------------------------You may think whatever you wish.

 

[KPM]

------------------------------------------------You may think whatever you wish.

So, you are saying you aren't going to actually contribute to this discussion?

 

[dudewingchun]

------------------------------------------------You may think whatever you wish.

Why do you even bother coming on the forums?

 

[wckf92]

Yeah, for some reason the walking section is not done very often. It's this section that contains the kneeling part. I've heard that it's because they wanted to emulate Yip Man pole for demo purposes, but that's just a rumor. There are actually 3 pole sets. The 6 1/2 point pole (4 sections, there may be more sections but I learned & only know of 4), short pole (double headed) & 3 1/2 point pole (which is first 3 sections 6 1/2 point pole, one side only, nearly identical to Yip Man pole). I think the short pole is from Sum Nung, but not sure as I don't know it. From my understanding Tang Yik pole is from Fung Siu Ching, Fung was a teacher of Yuen Family.

Apologies, I don't mean to drag this thread from dummy to pole but...
@Nobody Important ...so, just want to clarify...your WC has a 6.5 pt pole form; a short pole(?) form; (BTW, what is meant by double headed...using both ends, etc?); and also a 3.5 pt pole form? Do they each emphasize different 'methods' or 'points' or 'techniques' or 'power / usage'?

As for Yip Man's stuff...I'm at a loss. I'm always fascinated how so many different versions can stem from one man. Vajramusti said YM's pole is his and his alone...so does that mean what Yip Man passed down was Chan Wah Shun's pole work? Or, (if you put stock in the story)...pole work from Leung Bik(?).

IIRC, KPM said the kneeling horse is in Tang Yik's, Sum Nung's, and N.I. verified it is in YKS's. Apparently YM passed it on as some point but then deleted it. I wonder if it is also in Pan Nam's? Any other major branches I missed?
Thx Gents.

 

[Nobody Important]

Apologies, I don't mean to drag this thread from dummy to pole but...
@Nobody Important ...so, just want to clarify...your WC has a 6.5 pt pole form; a short pole(?) form; (BTW, what is meant by double headed...using both ends, etc?); and also a 3.5 pt pole form? Do they each emphasize different 'methods' or 'points' or 'techniques' or 'power / usage'?

As for Yip Man's stuff...I'm at a loss. I'm always fascinated how so many different versions can stem from one man. Vajramusti said YM's pole is his and his alone...so does that mean what Yip Man passed down was Chan Wah Shun's pole work? Or, (if you put stock in the story)...pole work from Leung Bik(?).

IIRC, KPM said the kneeling horse is in Tang Yik's, Sum Nung's, and N.I. verified it is in YKS's. Apparently YM passed it on as some point but then deleted it. I wonder if it is also in Pan Nam's? Any other major branches I missed?
Thx Gents.

6.5 pole contains all 6.5 points plus variations based on stance & contact area of pole + is done on both sides. Short pole is doubled headed meaning it uses both ends & is like English quarter staff. 3.5 pole focuses on 6.5 techniques with preference to vertical & horizontal axis & no variations on stance or technique, much like Yip Man pole.

Yip Man did much refining to his WC to make it his own, also many of his students never really learned the weapons & created their own sets based on observation or learning from others. This accounts for the many variations in his line.

 

[Vajramusti]

Why do you even bother coming on the forums?

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Why be anonymous? I am not - my profile is clear.
Name- joy chaudhuri. I have done wingchun every day since 1976. I have done other things too. I don't need to mix my wing chun with other things. If my posts are offensive to you- you can pot me on ignore and forget about them.