Taken Down a Notch

[Bill Mattocks]

I was talking to a work friend recently about martial arts; he had tried training karate as an adult and then quit; he was wondering if he was too old to start. Having started at 46, I was telling him it's never too late.

While this was going on, a young fella hauled up, listened for a bit, and then said "Wow, Bill. You mean to tell me you're a Marine, a Black Belt, *and* a Linux God?" I started to say that no, I'm not a master of any of those things, but then I realized mid-sentence that he wasn't praising me; he was mocking me. He's more than half my age; I'm older than his parents by a good bit. He was saying that I'm well past it. And I am.

I started feeling bad about myself. But really, the victim here is my own ego. I start to believe the hype. Ooh, a Marine. Ooh, a black belt. The truth is I was never that good at being a Marine, and I'm an average black belt at best. I know Linux pretty well, but I've been doing it for a living for 20+ years.

If I have a lot of life experience, it's because I have lived a life and it's getting a bit towards the old part. Most people who live long enough will have a few tales to tell as well; I'm nothing special.

I need to keep that in mind more often. Getting older doesn't make you wise. Having a lot of life experiences doesn't make you an expert. I'm just a guy who did a few things once upon a time, and what's left is what I am, for good or ill. I got taken down a peg. I had it coming.

 

[mograph]

From what it sounds like, you didn't place yourself up there, the youngster did, in order to shoot you down.
He just wanted to shoot someone down, and you were an easy target, because you're old enough to not be a threat to him, in his eyes.

Don't beat yourself up over some young punk, Bill.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

From what it sounds like, you didn't place yourself up there, the youngster did, in order to shoot you down.
He just wanted to shoot someone down, and you were an easy target, because you're old enough to not be a threat to him, in his eyes.

Don't beat yourself up over some young punk, Bill.

I'm not saying he didn't have a malicious motive; I believe he was getting a kick out of making me look foolish. However, he did make me do a little introspection; and it seems to me my pride has been riding shotgun for a bit now. Time to stop that.

 

[Steve]

I'm not saying he didn't have a malicious motive; I believe he was getting a kick out of making me look foolish. However, he did make me do a little introspection; and it seems to me my pride has been riding shotgun for a bit now. Time to stop that.

Might be so. I mean, yeah, without knowing the kid, it's hard to know if he was giving you a hard time maliciously or not. Typically, the only difference between good natured teasing and malicious mockery is the relationship between the two people involved. But if you think he was mocking you, maybe he was.

That said, only you know how you relate to these people. Do you talk about yourself a lot? Do you offer pearls of wisdom or share a lot of unsolicited advice? On social media, what else is there to do, really? About all I do online is share pictures of my lovable pets, talk about coffee, or discuss opinionated things with opinionated people.

But in real life, with coworkers I may be friendly with (but not friends with) those thoughts, advice, and anecdotes can come across differently than with people who are genuine friends. I spend a lot more time at work listening and asking questions than talking when it comes to work buddies.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Might be so. I mean, yeah, without knowing the kid, it's hard to know if he was giving you a hard time maliciously or not. Typically, the only difference between good natured teasing and malicious mockery is the relationship between the two people involved. But if you think he was mocking you, maybe he was.

That said, only you know how you relate to these people. Do you talk about yourself a lot? Do you offer pearls of wisdom or share a lot of unsolicited advice? On social media, what else is there to do, really? About all I do online is share pictures of my lovable pets, talk about coffee, or discuss opinionated things with opinionated people.

But in real life, with coworkers I may be friendly with (but not friends with) those thoughts, advice, and anecdotes can come across differently than with people who are genuine friends. I spend a lot more time at work listening and asking questions than talking when it comes to work buddies.

Not knowing how Bill is in person, the dude may have just been being a donkey.
That said, I agree with pretty much all you're saying. I constantly on here/online discussions use my own experiences/reactions to things to make points, as I know that better than I know other people. In person, I'm not typically trying to educate/discuss in the same way-most of what I'm discussing is things that we can look up and find facts on without needing personal experience. And when it comes to things that can, I stay quiet unless directly asked or with close friends.

I'd imagine that if I discussed my own experiences in person as often as I do here, I'd become annoying very quickly.

And yes, I do understand the irony of how many times I wrote "I" in this post.

 

[Steve]

Might be so. I mean, yeah, without knowing the kid, it's hard to know if he was giving you a hard time maliciously or not. Typically, the only difference between good natured teasing and malicious mockery is the relationship between the two people involved. But if you think he was mocking you, maybe he was.

That said, only you know how you relate to these people. Do you talk about yourself a lot? Do you offer pearls of wisdom or share a lot of unsolicited advice? On social media, what else is there to do, really? About all I do online is share pictures of my lovable pets, talk about coffee, or discuss opinionated things with opinionated people.

But in real life, with coworkers I may be friendly with (but not friends with) those thoughts, advice, and anecdotes can come across differently than with people who are genuine friends. I spend a lot more time at work listening and asking questions than talking when it comes to work buddies.

All of that said, Bill, I wouldn't necessarily presume ill intent. I worked with a guy for 15 years, and I was very fond of him. A good guy, though a bit of a curmudgeon. Whenever I asked him to do something, his first response was always, "No, because...." but he would always come around, figure it out, and get it done.

He invited a lot of good natured ribbing from the rest of the team. He was a Vietnam veteran, who had also been a firefighter and a police officer. He worked construction (and would be the first to tell you how good he was at drywall). He was also a qualified helicopter pilot AND certified to pilot several small airplanes, in addition to being a competent A/V studio engineer (which is what he did for me), and a freelance videographer and video editor. I will admit that early on, when we didn't know each other as well, I was guilty of presuming he was full of crap, though I never called him out. Over the years, though, it turns out he had in fact done everything he said he'd done, and more.

But until he passed away (sadly), his peers would tease him about his breadth of experience. At first, the teasing was a little malicious, I think... folks just not believing him or presuming that if he had done all these things, he couldn't possibly have done them all well. And as the personal relationships strengthened, and folks got to know him better, the intent of the teasing morphed. It never ended... it just became much more friendly.

No real point to this, I guess, other than maybe to suggest that, even if this was said sarcastically, it may not have been malicious. And even if it was malicious, it doesn't mean that it's a major thing. I think a little reflection is healthy, but don't beat yourself up or worry overly much about your ego. You've done a lot of things, and it's possible that these kids just can't yet understand how much living a person can do.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Not knowing how Bill is in person, the dude may have just been being a donkey.
That said, I agree with pretty much all you're saying. I constantly on here/online discussions use my own experiences/reactions to things to make points, as I know that better than I know other people. In person, I'm not typically trying to educate/discuss in the same way-most of what I'm discussing is things that we can look up and find facts on without needing personal experience. And when it comes to things that can, I stay quiet unless directly asked or with close friends.

I'd imagine that if I discussed my own experiences in person as often as I do here, I'd become annoying very quickly.

And yes, I do understand the irony of how many times I wrote "I" in this post.

I know Bill,
He knows what he knows.
He presents it as just that.
.
If he doesn't know I have seen him and heard him say so.
.
As stated young buck looking to make points from the laughter at someone older than him, and not likely to be his boss in the near future.
.
Personally, I think he could use a good manager / supervisor.

 

[Steve]

I know Bill,
He knows what he knows.
He presents it as just that.
.
If he doesn't know I have seen him and heard him say so.
.
As stated young buck looking to make points from the laughter at someone older than him, and not likely to be his boss in the near future.
.
Personally, I think he could use a good manager / supervisor.

Something tells me that you and I would disagree on the definition of a "good manager / supervisor."

 

[JowGaWolf]

I was talking to a work friend recently about martial arts; he had tried training karate as an adult and then quit; he was wondering if he was too old to start. Having started at 46, I was telling him it's never too late.

While this was going on, a young fella hauled up, listened for a bit, and then said "Wow, Bill. You mean to tell me you're a Marine, a Black Belt, *and* a Linux God?" I started to say that no, I'm not a master of any of those things, but then I realized mid-sentence that he wasn't praising me; he was mocking me. He's more than half my age; I'm older than his parents by a good bit. He was saying that I'm well past it. And I am.

I started feeling bad about myself. But really, the victim here is my own ego. I start to believe the hype. Ooh, a Marine. Ooh, a black belt. The truth is I was never that good at being a Marine, and I'm an average black belt at best. I know Linux pretty well, but I've been doing it for a living for 20+ years.

If I have a lot of life experience, it's because I have lived a life and it's getting a bit towards the old part. Most people who live long enough will have a few tales to tell as well; I'm nothing special.

I need to keep that in mind more often. Getting older doesn't make you wise. Having a lot of life experiences doesn't make you an expert. I'm just a guy who did a few things once upon a time, and what's left is what I am, for good or ill. I got taken down a peg. I had it coming.

If that guy was being a butt, then screw him. Getting older doesn't make you wise. Being wise is why you get older. Everyone gets old and one day it will be his turn if he's wise enough to avoid some of the stuff that humans do that gets us killed. Like popping off at the mouth and being a smart butt... lol.

Don't let it bother you. The one thing I learned from working with kids is that it's always what young kids say that sting the most, but it doesn't mean they know what they are talking about. Younger people don't appreciate older people until they hit 40 and see what's coming down the path.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'd imagine that if I discussed my own experiences in person as often as I do here, I'd become annoying very quickly.

ha ha ha.. talking about my own experience in person is a no no. That's a good way to get set up for some bad stuff. You guys have better insight on me than the people I work with.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Bill, face it - you've aged and you're washed up. Your life full of experience is useless to those young studs who think they know it all - they watch YouTube, after all. Your martial arts skills won't help you in the elite MMA Octagon these days, so what's the point of trying to still work out? Have you considered hanging up your black belt and tearing up your rank certificates? If you can't arrive at the final destination, why continue the journey? Many don't see the point.

But, I guess if you do - if you know in your heart all the benefits you've gained from your life's quest, MA and otherwise, then don't think twice and keep on being "nothing special." That's something special, indeed, and your "peg" need not be taken down. In fact, you should raise it up a notch!

 

[Steve]

Bill, face it - you've aged and you're washed up. Your life full of experience is useless to those young studs who think they know it all - they watch YouTube, after all. Your martial arts skills won't help you in the elite MMA Octagon these days, so what's the point of trying to still work out? Have you considered hanging up your black belt and tearing up your rank certificates? If you can't arrive at the final destination, why continue the journey? Many don't see the point.

But, I guess if you do - if you know in your heart all the benefits you've gained from your life's quest, MA and otherwise, then don't think twice and keep on being "nothing special." That's something special, indeed, and your "peg" need not be taken down. In fact, you should raise it up a notch!

The original point was a good one... a younger guy was (seemingly) arrogant and dismissive of Bill's accomplishments and experiences. The younger guy was being judgmental.

So, being arrogant, judgmental, and dismissive of young people, as in the post above, doesn't seem like a super constructive way to react.

 

[JowGaWolf]

In all reality it was only 1 young guy out of the millions that are out there who wouldn't have made those comments. I personally wouldn't try to measure my ego on what one person says.

 

[isshinryuronin]

So, being arrogant, judgmental, and dismissive of young people, as in the post above, doesn't seem like a super constructive way to react.

I was only referring to those "who think they know it all". Granted, that applies to a lot of young people, but in particular to those who include disrespect in their list of youthful faults.

And, while not admitting to it, being "arrogant, judgmental, and dismissive" are things I've waited 71 years to achieve.

 

[Steve]

I was only referring to those "who think they know it all". Granted, that applies to a lot of young people, but in particular to those who include disrespect in their list of youthful faults.

And, while not admitting to it, being "arrogant, judgmental, and dismissive" are things I've waited 71 years to achieve.

Ha. I didn't mean that to come off as snarky as it did. We've earned our right to be curmudgeonly.

 

[Argus]

All of that said, Bill, I wouldn't necessarily presume ill intent. I worked with a guy for 15 years, and I was very fond of him. A good guy, though a bit of a curmudgeon. Whenever I asked him to do something, his first response was always, "No, because...." but he would always come around, figure it out, and get it done.

He invited a lot of good natured ribbing from the rest of the team. He was a Vietnam veteran, who had also been a firefighter and a police officer. He worked construction (and would be the first to tell you how good he was at drywall). He was also a qualified helicopter pilot AND certified to pilot several small airplanes, in addition to being a competent A/V studio engineer (which is what he did for me), and a freelance videographer and video editor. I will admit that early on, when we didn't know each other as well, I was guilty of presuming he was full of crap, though I never called him out. Over the years, though, it turns out he had in fact done everything he said he'd done, and more.

But until he passed away (sadly), his peers would tease him about his breadth of experience. At first, the teasing was a little malicious, I think... folks just not believing him or presuming that if he had done all these things, he couldn't possibly have done them all well. And as the personal relationships strengthened, and folks got to know him better, the intent of the teasing morphed. It never ended... it just became much more friendly.

No real point to this, I guess, other than maybe to suggest that, even if this was said sarcastically, it may not have been malicious. And even if it was malicious, it doesn't mean that it's a major thing. I think a little reflection is healthy, but don't beat yourself up or worry overly much about your ego. You've done a lot of things, and it's possible that these kids just can't yet understand how much living a person can do.

People really don't get generalists. They're either in disbelief, or highly suspect of their competence in the beginning.

I'm speaking as a generalist myself. I'm quite similar to the guy in the example you give, though I don't get quite as much teasing because I don't usually talk mention the breadth of my experience unless it comes up, and I'm able to discuss each thing individually usually in more depth than the person I'm talking to is able to follow...

But then, also, I neither claim nor care how good I am at a thing. Being good at it is just a result of doing it for a long time. So I just do what I'm interested in doing, and either I wind up continuing to do it long enough to become competent or even really good at it, or I move on to something else. It's just a by product of doing what I want to.

If anything, I'm just not afraid to dive in the deep end and start learning things which are difficult / have a high barrier to entry.

The 80/20 principle is real. And, there's more to it than just becoming a jack of all trades, too. People discount the value of being able to approach problems from a multidisciplinary perspective, and a broad (not just deep) base of experience. Most real world problems are parts of larger, highly complex systems, and therefore breadth of knowledge is usually more useful than depth of knowledge, lest you find yourself crafting the perfect solution to the wrong problem.

 

[Argus]

I was talking to a work friend recently about martial arts; he had tried training karate as an adult and then quit; he was wondering if he was too old to start. Having started at 46, I was telling him it's never too late.

While this was going on, a young fella hauled up, listened for a bit, and then said "Wow, Bill. You mean to tell me you're a Marine, a Black Belt, *and* a Linux God?" I started to say that no, I'm not a master of any of those things, but then I realized mid-sentence that he wasn't praising me; he was mocking me. He's more than half my age; I'm older than his parents by a good bit. He was saying that I'm well past it. And I am.

I started feeling bad about myself. But really, the victim here is my own ego. I start to believe the hype. Ooh, a Marine. Ooh, a black belt. The truth is I was never that good at being a Marine, and I'm an average black belt at best. I know Linux pretty well, but I've been doing it for a living for 20+ years.

If I have a lot of life experience, it's because I have lived a life and it's getting a bit towards the old part. Most people who live long enough will have a few tales to tell as well; I'm nothing special.

I need to keep that in mind more often. Getting older doesn't make you wise. Having a lot of life experiences doesn't make you an expert. I'm just a guy who did a few things once upon a time, and what's left is what I am, for good or ill. I got taken down a peg. I had it coming.

I really can't even begin to understand this kid's misconceptions/attitude. I don't see why anyone can't be great at all of those things and more. I also see no shame at being competent or even mediocre at dozens of more things! This kid would have a blast if he talked to me.

I also happen to be a Linux God. Also a pretty skilled traditional (handtool) woodworker, a sophisticated value investor, fluent in Japanese, and an extremely good writer. On top of that, I work as a full stack developer (again, jack of all trades, yet, have to be quite competent in each thing regardless). Add to the list all of my "competent/mediocre" skills and the list grows substantially: CMA and FMA practitioner, leather worker, metal worker, electrical engineer, musician, bushcraft/surivivalist (I'm really damned good at making friction fire, if that counts for anything), and probably a dozen other things I could list up.

I find nothing more boring than somebody who's really good at only one thing. I'd much rather talk to, and even learn from, the guy who is just competent at a ton of things. We really over value / glorify narrow specialization, in my opinion. I mean, don't get me wrong: I have huge respect for, say, Olympic athletes. But specialization comes at great costs, and often does more harm than good. Even evolution bears this out: just look at how many overly specialized species died out because they became *too good* at hunting one particular animal to extinction and sucked at everything else, for instance. And this even goes for species that didn't adapt physically to their specialized role -- only behaviorally. It works great until it doesn't. Then, all of your specialized habits and behavior work against you when you're suddenly forced out of your element and aren't given sufficient time to "relearn" everything -- which is really hard to do.

It doesn't bother me that I am, or am not the best at something: I'm precisely as good as I need to be at the time. If I need to be better, it'll come as my need drives further improvement, or it'll just come with time. More often than not, I know exactly what I'd need to do to get better, if I want to. Once you get to the point that you know what you're doing, it's just a matter of experience and well placed effort. There are no secrets, and there is no reason that anyone can't coach someone else to become better than they themselves are.

 

[GojuTommy]

I was talking to a work friend recently about martial arts; he had tried training karate as an adult and then quit; he was wondering if he was too old to start. Having started at 46, I was telling him it's never too late.

While this was going on, a young fella hauled up, listened for a bit, and then said "Wow, Bill. You mean to tell me you're a Marine, a Black Belt, *and* a Linux God?" I started to say that no, I'm not a master of any of those things, but then I realized mid-sentence that he wasn't praising me; he was mocking me. He's more than half my age; I'm older than his parents by a good bit. He was saying that I'm well past it. And I am.

I started feeling bad about myself. But really, the victim here is my own ego. I start to believe the hype. Ooh, a Marine. Ooh, a black belt. The truth is I was never that good at being a Marine, and I'm an average black belt at best. I know Linux pretty well, but I've been doing it for a living for 20+ years.

If I have a lot of life experience, it's because I have lived a life and it's getting a bit towards the old part. Most people who live long enough will have a few tales to tell as well; I'm nothing special.

I need to keep that in mind more often. Getting older doesn't make you wise. Having a lot of life experiences doesn't make you an expert. I'm just a guy who did a few things once upon a time, and what's left is what I am, for good or ill. I got taken down a peg. I had it coming.

The ego around the veteran community is one of its biggest issues imho, and marines are the single worst (USMMC is refusing to offer enlistment bonuses and said being able to call yourself a marine should be good enough lol)

I always remind myself that karate black belts are a dime a dozen and no one cares lol. Only time I mention it is if I’m talking about karate and someone tries to correct me and they’re confidently incorrect.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I was talking to a work friend recently about martial arts; he had tried training karate as an adult and then quit; he was wondering if he was too old to start. Having started at 46, I was telling him it's never too late.

While this was going on, a young fella hauled up, listened for a bit, and then said "Wow, Bill. You mean to tell me you're a Marine, a Black Belt, *and* a Linux God?" I started to say that no, I'm not a master of any of those things, but then I realized mid-sentence that he wasn't praising me; he was mocking me. He's more than half my age; I'm older than his parents by a good bit. He was saying that I'm well past it. And I am.

I started feeling bad about myself. But really, the victim here is my own ego. I start to believe the hype. Ooh, a Marine. Ooh, a black belt. The truth is I was never that good at being a Marine, and I'm an average black belt at best. I know Linux pretty well, but I've been doing it for a living for 20+ years.

If I have a lot of life experience, it's because I have lived a life and it's getting a bit towards the old part. Most people who live long enough will have a few tales to tell as well; I'm nothing special.

I need to keep that in mind more often. Getting older doesn't make you wise. Having a lot of life experiences doesn't make you an expert. I'm just a guy who did a few things once upon a time, and what's left is what I am, for good or ill. I got taken down a peg. I had it coming.

Actually I'm happy to be underrated by young guys....gives me an advantage (insert evil grin here)

 

[drop bear]

The ego around the veteran community is one of its biggest issues imho, and marines are the single worst (USMMC is refusing to offer enlistment bonuses and said being able to call yourself a marine should be good enough lol)

I always remind myself that karate black belts are a dime a dozen and no one cares lol. Only time I mention it is if I’m talking about karate and someone tries to correct me and they’re confidently incorrect.

How do you know if someone is a marine?

Wait ten seconds and he will tell you.