Taijutsu video I thought was great

[shesulsa]

Indeed, the misuse of terminology, the neglect of showing specifics other than tire throwing and links to videos demonstrating strength rather than technique, the breaking down of aikido in randori and the posting of the go-to Anti-Bujinkan video ... all point to one thing.

I'm still wanting to see emilio in a video of his taijutsu as it relates to defense technique, to stance training, weaponry, etcetera. Because right now, this art he's assembled for his kids looks like ... nothing.

 

[Aiki Lee]

I've mentioned on another post that there are 4 elements to performing a good technique. kazushi, irimi, tsukuri, kake. Take the enemies balance, enter in close, lock them up, and execute the technique.

Emilio, you make it sound like it is hard to get irimi, but that's only true in a sport fight where there is no clear aggressor. In a street fight there is always an aggressor, and they close the distance on you whihc makes getting irimi quite easy. Jujutsu techniques work because of the simplisity of the movements. Proper training makes these easy to pull off even against aggressive, uncooperative opponents, because that's what they were designed to be used against.

 

[morph4me]

It really sounds like a case of "I can't do it, so it can't be done" more than anything else.

 

[emiliozapata]

Indeed, the misuse of terminology, the neglect of showing specifics other than tire throwing and links to videos demonstrating strength rather than technique, the breaking down of aikido in randori and the posting of the go-to Anti-Bujinkan video ... all point to one thing.

I'm still wanting to see emilio in a video of his taijutsu as it relates to defense technique, to stance training, weaponry, etcetera. Because right now, this art he's assembled for his kids looks like ... nothing.

Well I would like to get some decent videos loaded up, I am still held back by technical difficulties, but I am learning slowly but surely. Expect some stuff in a week or so.

 

[shesulsa]

Okay. See you in a week, then.

 

[Chris Parker]

The term Irimi means "to enter against the body", and is primarily an Aikido term. Saying that someone "gave you your irimi" is to misunderstand the term, as Irimi is an action on your part, rather than a simple positioning as Emilio infers. So thats one down.

Actually irimi simply means "to enter" or "an entering movement" aikidoists try to conceptualiaze it into something more esoteric, Judo has used the concept from the beginning, ever heard of irimi nage, or irimi tsuki, these are judo throws right from the kodokan curriculum, so in most judo throws in which you will use your body to pivot point the opponent you must enter into them, which is half the battle in getting superior grips, therefore I argue that my use of the term is appropriate.

To take this literally, "Iri" means "to enter", "Mi" is the same character as "Do", and means "the body, or trunk". so "Irimi" is "To enter against the body". Your turn.

 

[emiliozapata]

there you have it, so you can see when someone comes up behind you and places you into a full nelson they have given you your irimi. All the high amplitude throws in judo require this irimi, which allows your body to be the pivot point, the leverage comes from dropping your center of gravity under said pivot point, which creates an unbalancing and allows the throw to be completed. Thank You for your insight.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

have given you your irimi.

I think this sentence is not correct.

My wife(Japanese native) and I were going over the meaning Irimi with the electronic dictionary. The dictionary spoke about how Sumo wrestlers put their bodies together in some ways like a clinch or tackle.

I showed her the stepping action done in Judo and she used the wording Sukui nage(meaning to scoop up)though the dictionary translates the meaning as a Sumo technique.

I am not a Judoka or an Aikidoka so the terms may differ.

 

[emiliozapata]

jade cloud , your endeavor demonstrates the futility of arguing over the semantics of all this stuff, imagine if we were using english terms, I would be saying, "you need to break down their grip and get in close, body to body and drop under their weight", someone else could say, "This guy don't know what he is talking about, you need to pass their arms so you can close the gap between your bodies and then get low"

How are the two above statements different? They are not.

 

[Kreth]

jade cloud , your endeavor demonstrates the futility of arguing over the semantics of all this stuff, imagine if we were using english terms, I would be saying, "you need to break down their grip and get in close, body to body and drop under their weight", someone else could say, "This guy don't know what he is talking about, you need to pass their arms so you can close the gap between your bodies and then get low"

How are the two above statements different? They are not.

Straw man. You're arguing Japanese terms with a native speaker of Japanese, albeit by proxy.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

What I am saying is the wording "given you your irimi" does not sound correct. As Chris has said already what irimi means and as my wife a Japanese native said the against the body as in clinching or tackle not as you said:

Actually irimi simply means "to enter" or "an entering movement"

I see also you are using the Shugen name again after I explained to you it has a religious context. Shu=Asectic Gen=magic power/ability

 

[Kreth]

...

 

[Raynac]

So he gave you your irimi and your leverage and pivot point. IN real grappling these are the two things hardest to achieve on a resisting opponent.

hehehe nice picture. ok so from what I'm understanding here... even if i was "given" an imiri as he stated earlier... how is that a bad thing? honestly if someone goes to put me in a full nelson in realife they will have to do it by "giving" me an imiri. so you said thats one of the hardest things to achieve on a resisting opponent.

well yes maybe, but only if your starting from a position were you are both trying to grapple eachother head on, in a situation were im attacked from behind and put into a full nelson (which after getting attack from behind with a chair I now consider a very real possiblity) the person is going to be giving me the imiri irregardless. thus there is no flaw with the techinque as it works what its designed for so belittling it by saying "he gave you your irimi and your leverage and pivot point. IN *real grappling* these are the two things hardest to achieve on a resisting opponent"

but thats ok you were probley thinking of competion grappling, somthing I don't plan on participating in.

There I've had my rant ^_^ I have no more harsh feelings towards emiliozapata. honestly I'm really interested in what his art looks like, in a serious sense, not in a "I want to pick it apart" kind of sense. are your kids still having fun? how often do you train..?

P.S. do you honestly flip tires? we have some pretty big tractor tires on our farm so If you have good ones i know they can be pretty heavy... but I can see it causing back problems... I mean if you can lift it once in a while its impressive but don't damage yourself.

 

[Chris Parker]

there you have it, so you can see when someone comes up behind you and places you into a full nelson they have given you your irimi. All the high amplitude throws in judo require this irimi, which allows your body to be the pivot point, the leverage comes from dropping your center of gravity under said pivot point, which creates an unbalancing and allows the throw to be completed. Thank You for your insight.

Look, not to labour the point Emilio, but as you appear to have some difficulty with Japanese terms (ninjutsu, irimi, shugen), as well as technical terms (psychosomatic), it would seem you also need a bit of a helping hand with some basic grammatical English.

"Iri", as established, means "to enter". "Enter", with the opening "to", becomes a "verb". This is what we call "a doing word", or an action. Therefore, the term "irimi" refers to action. If, for example, an opponent were to take hold of a person (say, from behind in a full nelson?), and that hold is used to apply a throwing action, then there has been no entering action. There has been no movement to attain momentum nor position. So no "giving of irimi (?)", okay? Irimi is action. No action, no irimi.

Please realise that just using pretty words and semi-technical terms won't impress anyone here, as the general level of understanding is a bit above that. So just use terms that you actually know, okay?

 

[shesulsa]

I sure wish I could remember who said this to me years ago ... but it was something along the lines of ... "think of going into a doorway, inside the space as you would enter a small closet..." so my take on the term - which I've only heard here, honestly, involves committing to the throw - getting "in" there and setting up.

I can see the desire to apply that analogy to shooting the legs or even a sweep from behind, but ... not for a RNC or, say, a joint lock.

Being given a position or an opening, screwing up, leaving something out there ... that is not how I understand the concept of what I think most folks call "irimi."

Am I getting that right?

:asian:

 

[HaydenMorison]

Just came across George Rodgers today,really impressive stuff!

check it out:

http://www.jagmartialarts.com/vids.htm

 

[Bujingodai]

I fail to actually see any use of Ninpo Taijutsu in any of that. It was devoid of legwork. The last 2 anyway. Seems sort of stiff.
Was he Kan, he looks awefully familiar.
His striking is good but lacks angulation, distance, creation of space etc. Thats just my opinion mind you.

 

[HaydenMorison]

he does state that it isnt bujinkan ninjutsu (sorry to disappoint you) its more of a modernized version, i dunno i think its quite cleaver and practical and you can see how the ninjutsu principals are the same.

 

[Chris Parker]

From George's groups site, he recieved Godan under Hatsumi Sensei in 1999, but then left without seeking any higher grades. His reasons are listed on the site (www.jagmartialarts.com, look under the member section), so I won't go into them here.

 

[Kreth]

I dunno if anyone noticed, but this is the Japanese Martial Arts Talk forum, not "Had-A-Hissy-Fit-And-Left-To-Form-My-Own-System-Of-Martial-Arts-Talk." :idunno: