Tai Chi's Push Hands Law of Primal Unity

[Wing Woo Gar]

Videos are generally posted by someone trying to make "Their" point.... whether that point is correct or not is always debatable...Basically you're not going to see a Judo is the most awesome art ever video posted that is going to make Judo look bad.....

Unfortunately, an awful lot of videos posted for CMA look very bad.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Videos are generally posted by someone trying to make "Their" point.... whether that point is correct or not is always debatable...Basically you're not going to see a Judo is the most awesome art ever video posted that is going to make Judo look bad.....

Some things just don’t translate to video.

 

[windwalker099]

Should you answer my question with your video proof too?

The problem is you question the validity of the practice itself.

Any video I would show you like this one

would then become the subject of another discussion, I'm not interested in.

CMA in general has had a hard time over the years proving that what people practice can actually be used. Much of my time as a younger man was spent helping to disprove that with those I met...

I'm a little older now, understanding that while it was kinda fun, it was also pointless back in the day...
In talking to some of the noted Sifus we both knew, always found it kinda funny...

They would talk about "Qi" and then set limits on what people could do with it, suggesting that those who did other things were fake...

All the things they couldn't or didn't do...

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Any video I would show you would then become the subject of another discussion, which I'm not interested in.

Can we honestly say that a student uses his teacher as a demo partner doesn't exist. I don't believe my teacher would let me to use him as a demo partner (I'm just different).

 

[windwalker099]

Can we honestly say that a student uses his teacher as a demo partner doesn't exist. I don't believe my teacher would let me to use him as a demo partner (I'm just different).

Are we talking, teaching environment or public demonstration.

Most that I've met don't in public demos... some do.
With others, in teaching environments, it can be dangerous...
The Mantis teacher I had in Korea, Mr. Park, was like that, having used his art during the war...
Due to his experiences, sometimes he couldn't stop a reaction he might have,
if a person did something unexpected during a demo,,


Quite interesting training with him....
Park Chi Moon.
Shifu Park Chil Sung was born in 1930 in what is now North Korea.

He never mentioned his teacher's name..
We used to try to get him drunk, and ask him,,
he would laugh saying "i know what you'er trying to do"

Took some 20yrs later before I would find out who it was.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

which Taijiquan moves are representative of the following?

It's the same as Taiji "turn around hammer, fetch arm". It's a general "switch hands" principle - right hand strike, left hand takeover opponent's defense, right hand strike again.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Here is a quiz for fun! One, which Taijiquan moves are representative of the following?

2. Twisting the strand of Silk

Taiji "needle at the bottom of the sea".

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

View attachment 32148
This type of application demo is most likely the result of not understanding the strike. That first strike cannot and should not be deployed that way.

This "switch hands" exists in the Taiji form.

- The 1st strike is a hammer fist,
- the 2nd takeover is a circular deflect,
- the 3rd punch is also a hammer fist.

When I learned the Taiji form, I always wondered when I can use this combo. The 1st hammer fist is slow. The 3rd hammer fist is also slow. I have no idea why the Taiji creator ever created his form this way.

 

[Same Trick]

What I believe not the thread topic.
The OP mentioned



Don't know what the "primordial state" means
the OP refers to.

The video presented the actuality of "hunyuang state" in demonstration ..

In answer to the question, it's not a belief.

What was shown in the video aligns with my experience.
The way it's explained a little different,
the effect is the same.




An interesting read

Hunyuan is perfect harmony in/of the six directions and by so all directions and by so it steam from the true center.

Hunyuan force and awareness is omnipresent, in application any part of the body should be able express it, since its steam from true center its issued rather effortless.

The martial arts or all aspects of interacting is of mind/body unity, a skilled person can efficiently/effortlessly read such interactions to their advantage , psychology play a major part especially upon eye contact, the story Cui Ruibin recall about his teacher dwell into that.

Not only the eyes but one’s whole body, one’s posture, a move, work as vehicle of the mind, by this one can get a psychological upper hand depending how well balanced the mind/body is..

 

[Same Trick]

What is most distressing is that there is some legitimacy to these practices and theories, but not without the physical realities of training. This opens the door for fakes, hucksters, and charlatans to take advantage of people without the experience to discern reality from farce.

Yes that’s true, with Yiquan that got a craze in the 90’s gave almost overnight birth to a lot of “teachers”, even well established teachers of TJQ, BGZ and so on suddenly began to teach “Yiquan”

 

[Same Trick]

So I just noticed this in the thread, both statements by the starter of this thread but in different posts

How do they match ?

“No, the GBT sequence was created after the push hands sequence was created.”

“Yes, you are right .Chen Ziming writes that people who learn push hands early will never be able to gain skill in Taijiquan.”

 

[Appledog]

So I just noticed this in the thread, both statements by the starter of this thread but in different posts

How do they match ?

“No, the GBT sequence was created after the push hands sequence was created.”

“Yes, you are right .Chen Ziming writes that people who learn push hands early will never be able to gain skill in Taijiquan.”

Help me to answer your question; what don't you understand, that they do not match?

 

[Same Trick]

Help me to answer your question; what don't you understand, that they do not match?

First statement seem to say the solo form was created/ modeled from specific push-hands exercises, indicating PH was the original TJQ ?

Then the second statement seem to say that in order to learn TJQ correctly one should first for a longer period of time do solo form practice, and only then may one take up PH correctly ?

I just thought your two statements somehow contradicted.