Glad to see someone still lives on this planet and have common sense. Even a MA master still need to carry grocery bags for his wife,
Tai Chi and Weightlifting.
- Thread starter Appledog
- Start date
Taiji Rebel
2nd Black Belt
Weight-training is beneficial to everyone. Qi and it's powers will continue to be open to debate. Some for, others against. The wiser approach is to build overall strength, of which there are many different types. Resistance training takes discipline and hard work which is why a fair amount of traditional MAs focus on the softer skills. We see this all the time in taijiquan and aikido. Occasionally though, we see those who are clearly fit, strong and healthy who can not only talk the talk, but actually put their money where their mouths are. I've seen plenty of woo-woo demos in taijiquan and aikido but have never felt the invisible powers personally - not saying it doesn't exist, just recognizing that weight-training builds true strength and internal health which is undeniable.
Just remaining bone density during old age is enough reason for weight training.
This video was made back in 1987.
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Sammy Naur
Blue Belt
Or how about we exchange "strength" with "endurance".
Strength is kind of an in-the-moment thing. Whereas endurance is a duration over time.
If we've learned anything from people who train with weights, they have more endurance. It feels almost stupid posting that sort of obvious thing.
Same Trick
Black Belt
When one practice the traditional Taiji form the arms hare held hangingly out from the body for about 20 min, if one’s taiji form is just 4min long it won’t build that same strength as the traditional form does
OP
OP
Appledog
Green Belt
A brilliant insight. You only get this from a long form.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
kind of like complaining about weakness in Xingyiquan when you have never trained Santi Shi
windwalker099
Master Black Belt
It is quite strange.
IME, many coming from other disciplines find it difficult to meet the requirements of IMA practice—especially Taiji depending on focus. ie going to a senior center is not always a good indication of a practice of any practice for those looking for usage...
A good example is Zhan Zhuang (站樁), or standing meditation. It looks like someone just standing still, doing nothing. In reality, it demands precise structure, internal awareness, and deep relaxation (鬆). People often shake, sweat, or get exhausted within minutes—not because they’re moving, but because they’re learning to engage the whole body without tension. It’s one of the foundations, yet incredibly difficult to do correctly.
The practice the long from considered a type of moving Zhan Zhuang (站樁) for some taiji practices.
Historically, there are also many anecdotes about how severe and demanding internal practice was during that time. What appears simple on the outside is often where the deepest work is being done.
Totally agree—a martial arts master still has to carry groceries and live in the real world. We all do.
The kind of power we’re talking about in internal arts like Taiji is different from external strength. It’s not about how much you can lift, but how well you transfer force through structure, timing, breath, and intention. That’s internal force (內勁), it works differently than the external force (外力) most people are familiar with.
The story about Zheng Manqing not being able to lift a bowling ball , used to illustrate the differences.. He wasn't known for strength—but he could send people flying with barely any movement. A different kind of skill, built through a different method.
Not all power looks the same—comparing internal and external methods used can be misleading, Methods used in developing force past a certain point are incompatible with each other..
What method one may find more useful depends on interest.
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It's not whether you want to do it or not, it's whether you have to do it or not.
I just asked AI the following question - Should I lift weight at old age?
Absolutely! Weightlifting at an older age can offer numerous health benefits, including maintaining muscle strength, improving bone density, boosting metabolism, and enhancing overall mobility. Strength training is crucial in preventing sarcopenia, the natural loss of muscle mass that comes with aging.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Although that is true, you have to take what AI sells you as a suggestion for what you need to research to make sure it is true.
For the record, I do lift weights, but as we age we need to change our approach. If I tried to lift the way I did in my 30s, now in my 60s, I would not gain much and likely lose more that I gained.
We need more recovery time as we age to actually make gains
I didn't include the whole AI respond in my last post. Not sure people want to read that much detail. Here are the rest of my AI respond:
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However, some key considerations:
- Start Light & Progress Gradually – Your body may not recover as quickly as when you were younger, so ease into weightlifting with lighter weights and higher reps.
- Focus on Functional Strength – Exercises that improve balance, posture, and flexibility will help maintain independence and prevent injuries.
- Prioritize Form Over Weight – Proper technique is more important than lifting heavy; good form reduces injury risk.
- Consult a Doctor or Trainer – Especially if you have health conditions, check with a professional to tailor exercises to your needs.
OP
OP
Appledog
Green Belt
One thing to consider is that in the past there was no formal institution of 'Taijiquan' with set rules. It may very well be that the intangible cultural heritage of Taijiquan existed in society alongside people of various needs and desires, and that weightlifting was in deed practiced alongside martial arts to prevent sarcopenia. The danger we face today is stating outright that such training either does or does not belong in 'Taijiquan'. Well, eating food does not belong in Taijiquan, so should we all starve?
In fact if you want to engage in weightlifting go ahead, and if your lineage has passed down the correct weightlifting skills, then go and train them if that's what you want to do. You don't have to train everything equally. Some lineages in fact say 3 Yilu and one Erlu, and some say 1 to 1. What you believe is often given with a compelling reason, but this means that it is based on a rational understanding of where one is and is not a hard and fast rule.
In fact if you want to engage in weightlifting go ahead, and if your lineage has passed down the correct weightlifting skills, then go and train them if that's what you want to do. You don't have to train everything equally. Some lineages in fact say 3 Yilu and one Erlu, and some say 1 to 1. What you believe is often given with a compelling reason, but this means that it is based on a rational understanding of where one is and is not a hard and fast rule.
One Chang Taiji training requirement is to hold bricks on both hands and finish the 108 moves Taiji form. One has to try it to feel the difficulty. It's not as easy as it may look.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
yeah, my point is AI is not infallible... it is not addressing older folks, it is a generalization
windwalker099
Master Black Belt
What do you feel you're training using this method?
Personally, I feel all methods are valid—if they align with the underlying theory of the practice. I always find it interesting to read about how others train and approach their work.
A small story from a meeting in Taiwan many years ago:
I met a local Taiji teacher and we pushed hands in the park. He felt I had good skill at the time. Fast forward about 15 years—we reconnected, and he invited me to his gym to give an impromptu seminar for some of his students. He thought it would be valuable for them to feel a different expression of internal work.
One thing I remembered from his earlier teaching—which I respected but didn’t fully agree with—was a method where he had students place a toothpick at the elbow joint during push hands. His goal was to train them not to collapse the structure while still remaining soft and flexible.
I understood what he was aiming for, not something I would advocate in my own practice. Feeling it tends to draw a person’s awareness to a single point—usually the elbow—which disrupts the continuity of intent and qi. In my practice, intention and energy aren’t confined to one area; they extend beyond the contact point and pass through the opponent.
Master Chen Weihong ? -2015
He was a good teacher, solid skill,
known for his Taiji work in Hsinchu, Taiwan.
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If I only use my arms to hold bricks, I can't finish the 108 moves form. I have to unify my whole body and allow my whole body to deal with that extra weight for 6 minutes. The weight of those 2 bricks will transfer from my
hand -> elbow -> shoulder -> spine -> hip -> leg -> foot
After the training, I can feel my entirely body is unified as one unit.
When my student is doing Taiji form, I will push his forearm. If I can change the angle at the elbow joint between his forearm and upper arm, his structure is collapsed. Body unification is a very important part of Taiji training.
Aikido guys call this unbendable arm - as water flow from shoulder to the finger tips.
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