Taekwondo, waste of time?

[Steve]

Bananas do have their purpose though. Great for potassium and magnesium and some would argue intimate situations. I am Not one of those people.

 

[drop bear]

View attachment 31046

Can't yuck someone's yum.

 

[Steve]

Can't yuck someone's yum.

you are 100% correct. It’s harder sometimes than others, though.

 

[Pooja Gulati]

You're also more vulnerable mid-kick than you are mid-punch, and you have far better hand-eye coordination than foot-eye coordination. There's definitely a trade-off.

Depends on how steady you are on one foot and if you can hop into a steady stance from your feet.

There is a reason why it is Taekwondo
not kwontaedo

 

[Pooja Gulati]

Can't yuck someone's yum.

Love this!

Respect the art

And the art will unfold secrets unto you!

 

[Pooja Gulati]

Here is my take,
I'm not a black belt in TKD not even ranked so take my opinion for what ever its worth. I did train for about three years pretty regular with an old school TKD Guy from the 1970's. Most powerful kicks I had ever seen. He could tear the stitching on a heavy bag at will. He taught me a large portion of solid functional kicks. In sparring my kicking game was solid TKD.
30 years later my 13 yo step sister got her black belt in TKD. Something was very different than what I had ever done. I think it was that Korean arts had embraced the fact that it's a buisness. Schools are there to make a profit. That's not necessarily a bad thing. you have to keep the doors open. But by trying to maximize profits you sacrifice quality. It changes the entire dynamic of the school and ultimately who signs up. The student body as a group controls how good people get within that group. The same applies to regular school and university. It's why Harvard, Yale and Oxford are held in high esteem.

schools are here to make a profit

Dojangs are here to make a difference.

 

[Pooja Gulati]

Might be true, but I find it kind of odd that some people might think this. You don't need to be on the level of a competitive MMA fighter in order to successfully defend oneself.

Most street fights are between two untrained people, which means that one of the untrained participants is going to win. In other words, untrained people win fights and successfully defend themselves all the time - and it's probably happened hundreds of times during the time it took you to read this post.

That's why I find it difficult to write off any martial arts training. Before you started martial arts training, you were untrained just like people who are out there winning fights on the streets everyday. And now you're getting trained.

You don't need to be as good as a competitive MMA fighter. You only need to be better than untrained people on the streets.

(Apologies if I'm preaching to the choir)

Ok

If you always have mini nunchucks on you

Even a knife is thwarted…

 

[Pooja Gulati]

Traditional martial arts will show you self defence that keeps you from even being in situations that require the need for such things.

 

[Pooja Gulati]

So, reading through many of the Taekwondo posts it seems there is both pride and loathing for Taekwondo by practitioners of the art. In one instance you will get things such as, it is a great striking art, teaches discipline, and the like. Then you get, the tradition is so new and so varied that it basically has no tradition and is just garbage put out by each "master." Having taken Taekwondo myself for 13 years, I find it basically a huge waste of time and I would have been better served spending my time and energy on good old western arts such as boxing and wrestling. I fall into this category myself where for over a decade I extolled the virtues of Taekwondo but now, not so much. I tend to steer people away from Taekwondo/Tang Soo Do. I do however find Taekwondo to be a great art for children. But into adulthood it is kind of silly to see grown men jumping around doing acrobatic kicks. I have met soooo many guys that either took Taekwondo as a child and want to get back into it and recapture their childhood vigor or those that never stopped taking it from childhood and do not know any better. What are the thoughts of those that have practiced Taekwondo up to at least a 1st or 2nd Dan? I stopped training at 4th Dan (Kukkiwon), 5th Dan (Local school). I have also wrestled since Elementary school and always thought the eastern arts had a leg up on me (pun Intended). But all these years later, my wrestling has served me better than Taekwondo ever has.

 

[Simfers]

My first martial art was TKD (Kukkiwon). I was 18. It got me hooked because kicks are cool. It opened the gates for me. I now hold ranks in TKD (black belt), Yoseikan Karate (brown belt), Can-Ryu JJ (2nd degree BB) and BJJ (3-stripe white belt; hey, it's a rank!)

So was it a waste of time? Can a thing that got me off the couch and moving around, potentially saving my life, and brought me to a passion that's never abated in 27 years and brought me so much joy be a waste of time?

No. It's not a waste of time. It was fun and it got me going. Wouldn't trade it for the world.

 

[Haruhiko]

I find it basically a huge waste

That's something you need to meditate on, especially as a dan graded black belt. Personally I stopped because of studies and I, like many others, lost my appreciation of TKD as a martial art when I started competing more; it was a point scoring sport, and that wasn't enough for me.

What are the thoughts of those that have practiced Taekwondo up to at least a 1st or 2nd Dan?

3rd dan here.

Like I said above, TKD became a shallow art for me. It was heavily focused on points, rigid rules (and rule skirting), and only barely on poomsae. I don't fault it for that - it's a very new system comparatively. And yes, a lot of dojos advertise TKD classes with family discounts or children in mind. That's how I started, then I was groomed to be in the national fight squad and over time lost my passion. I got to the end, won a lot of fights, trophies, medals and all the shiny stuff.

I suppose you need to ask yourself what you're looking for in a martial art?

Glory? Discipline? Fitness? Sense of community and dare I say it - fun? TKD is a prime candidate, then.

What's missing then - only you can answer that question.

 

[Balrog]

What are the thoughts of those that have practiced Taekwondo up to at least a 1st or 2nd Dan?

I am a 6th Degree, Master Instructor. My training in Taekwondo has been one of the absolute best things I have done with my life.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I am a 6th Degree, Master Instructor. My training in Taekwondo has been one of the absolute best things I have done with my life.

Does your system syllabus contain additional material to be learned at 6th degree? Beyond 6th degree?

 

[Balrog]

Does your system syllabus contain additional material to be learned at 6th degree? Beyond 6th degree?

Yes, it does. In addition, starting at 6th Degree, they only give us 66 moves of the 96 move form. We make up the other 30 to give our own personal touch to the style.

 

[Earl Weiss]

There is a reason why it is Taekwondo
not kwontaedo

That reason would be?

 

[Earl Weiss]

Yes, it does. In addition, starting at 6th Degree, they only give us 66 moves of the 96 move form. We make up the other 30 to give our own personal touch to the style.

So, the obvious question (As posited by Forrest Morgan in "Living the Martial Way") is How can you be a "Master" of a system where that system does not yet have you learn all of the system material when that title is applied?

 

[Haruhiko]

That reason would be? ....
So, the obvious question is How can you be a "Master" of a system where that system does not yet have you learn all of the system material when that title is applied?

Presumably because it implies that the hand (kwon/soon?) follows the foot (tae). Which used to be a core philosophy in TKD to my recollection.

"Master" is
a) honorific, and dependant on the governing body's prerequisites
b) different in meaning in Korean

ITF and WTF conveniently has 9 Dan forms each, corresponding to each Dan rank. Others have over 15, which makes me curious as to how it would be taught or graded and why some were excluded or included to begin with

 

[isshinryuronin]

How can you be a "Master" of a system where that system does not yet have you learn all of the system

different in meaning in Korean

What is the actual Korean word used for this honorific we call "Master," and what is its literal translation? Shades of meaning often change when put into a different language. Does it really just mean "adept, skilled teacher, one who understands," or some other kind of thing?

Was this honorific used prior to the mass export of TKD to the West and if so, did the designated English meaning (as determined by the TKD establishment) change afterwards to help market the art here by implying their rank-and-file instructors were on a higher level than those of other styles?

It seems that the answers to at least some of these questions would go a long way in putting things into perspective as well as illuminating the old TKD establishment's thinking. I hope some of MT members have access to an old, native Korean, TKD senior blackbelt to pose these questions to.

 

[windwalker099]

What is the actual Korean word used for this honorific we call "Master," and what is its literal translation?

In the late 70s when I was in Korea, the word used was 사범님 (sabeomnim)
For martial arts teacher in "General" across all MA..taught.


"사범님 (sabeomnim)
"Respected Master" or "Respected Instructor."

사범 (sabeom): Master or Instructor (specifically in martial arts)
-님 (-nim): A suffix used to show respect, equivalent to "Mr./Ms." or "Sir/Madam" in English"

Although Mr, was also used instead depending on teacher and context of conversation.


As with my teacher addressed we addressed him as Mr Park.

Korean language is highly hierarchical in nature, reflecting the social status and relationships between speakers.
Even In the context of family, different titles are used to address family members based on their relative status and age.

A younger person can not address an older bother or sister by name directly....
A older person can address younger siblings, as they wish...

 

[Haruhiko]

What is the actual Korean word used for this honorific we call "Master," and what is its literal translation? Shades of meaning often change when put into a different language. Does it really just mean "adept, skilled teacher, one who understands," or some other kind of thing?

Was this honorific used prior to the mass export of TKD to the West and if so, did the designated English meaning (as determined by the TKD establishment) change afterwards to help market the art here by implying their rank-and-file instructors were on a higher level than those of other styles?

It seems that the answers to at least some of these questions would go a long way in putting things into perspective as well as illuminating the old TKD establishment's thinking. I hope some of MT members have access to an old, native Korean, TKD senior blackbelt to pose these questions to.

Sa-bon-nim literally means "instructor-example-[affix of respect]". Like sensei or sifu in Japanese and Chinese arts.

It wasn't enough to be marketed in the West, and so we have Master and Grand Master etc to evoke oriental mysticism. And it worked. Choi Hong Hi even writes the English word "Master" in the earliest formalised TKD documents when he was establishing the ITF:

ITF Taekwon-Do Condensed Encyclopedia : Choi Hong-hi : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The first ever Digital Version of the latest ITF Taekwon-Do Condensed Encyclopedia, officially mandated by the International Taekwon-Do Headquarters in Vienna,...

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