Taekwondo, waste of time?

[marvin8]

Bring a knife (lethal weapon) to a fist fight can have legal consequences.

Only good guys care about legal consequences. Jails and Prisons are full of people who didn't care about the legal consequences.

For good guys that care about legal consequences, some suggest to carry both a non-lethal (e.g., spray) and lethal weapon (e.g., knife, gun).

Training for MMA's open rules better prepares one for all ranges of combat.

My recent experience in Kentucky is telling me that this is probably not true.

Training against grapplers can help prepare you to defend against takedowns and ground and pound. System A vs System B sparring/fighting can benefit each other.

I'll have to ask those guys who got stabbed with the shock knife about how well their MMA skills saved them from dealing with that shock knife.

You can ask any MAist how well their MA skills will save them from dealing with knives.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Only good guys care about legal consequences. Jails and Prisons are full of people who didn't care about the legal consequences.

A friend of mine always carry a can of red pepper. When he attacks, he always throws red pepper at his opponent's face first. My friend is a black belt in Hapkido, but he only weights 98 lb. Many times, util he knocked out his opponent, his opponent then realized he was a BB.

I feel sorry for those so-called good guys. No wonder they need to learn self-defense. The world is too dangerous for them.

 

[gyoja]

Like this?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Like this?View attachment 31031

In long fist system, I learn how to kick sand at my opponent's face when I run away. Unfortunately, today we don't have sand on the road.

 

[gyoja]

In long fist system, I learn how to kick sand at my opponent's face when I run away. Unfortunately, today we don't have sand on the road.

Come down South, we have plenty of dirt roads here!

 

[Earl Weiss]

Competition, Self Defense, and Combat are all different. Efficient training for one versus the other would be different as well as though admittedly there is crossover. MMA has given us a lab to see what works and how it works. There are a couple of things that tend to "Stop" am MMA fight as much or more than anything else. As far as weaponless techniques go, those would be at the top of the list for things to use in Self Defense.

 

[gyoja]

You can ask any MAist how well their MA skills will save them from dealing with knives.

So far, so good. Only been stabbed once.

 

[HighKick]

I agree that it's about culture and environment. But culture and environment are self selecting. Meaning if I wanted an activity to do with my 8 yo son, I could join TKD and in some schools we could train in the same class. Great benefit for families. However an individual looking for intense self defense or full contact would not be interested in joining. The end result speaks for itself. TkD schools are maybe 90 % kids. MMA is maybe 90% adults. And those that want to get really good are highly selective in which school they attend. An Olympic level athlete will not join the school down the street. The results for the average student are independent from curriculum or quality of instruction. I've said before that I truly belive that the quality of your students is dependent on the quality level of your top 2 or 3 students. If you can't attract high level athletes and only attract the average family, you will have a thriving buisness but people that want more, like the OP will find that school a waste of time.

It does not appear you fully read my post. We have classes for almost everyone, and have had several students who have won gold at AAU Nationals and have had people go very far in the WT National circuit. That is why I said it is Hard on the school owner to provide a model for most everyone. In reality, when I factor in the time investment, it causes me to lose a little profit.

Yes, our elite level students are part of regular class, and they certainly do spur motivation, but they also do SO much more to pursue their own endeavors.

The 'high-level' athletes you are talking about are fairly rare, and there is no 'well' you can tap from. I can't tell if you are talking about alpha-dog, aggressive type people or what, but I do know that exceptional martial artist and competitors do Not have to have that personality. They do have to be able to tap into it however. If you know, you know.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

My recent experience in Kentucky is telling me that this is probably not true. I'll have to ask those guys who got stabbed with the shock knife about how well their MMA skills saved them from dealing with that shock knife.

To clarify this for those who weren't at the meetup:

During the first day of our recent meetup at my gym, some of our BJJ guys were having an in-house tournament for white and blue belts. The ruleset was submission only, but if no one got a submission during regulation time then the match would go to a "sudden death" overtime. For the overtime, the competitors started on opposite sides of a MMA cage with a shock knife on the floor in the middle of the cage. Victory went to whoever got to the knife and zapped their opponent with it first.

I guess I can ask the tournament winner* (who never got stabbed) how he thought his training helped him in those overtime rounds.

Since the tournament was also an aspect of training, I can ask the other competitors if they think the experience of going through those rounds was helpful for building experience in dealing with a knife.

*BTW, I had the pleasure of promoting the winner to blue belt the Monday after the tournament. He's only been training for about 8 months, but has a great attitude and work ethic, coupled with a strong wrestling background.

 

[J. Pickard]

it is kind of silly to see grown men jumping around doing acrobatic kicks.

1. Why? That shows a lot of athleticism and fitness.

2. Ive been training TKD for 24 years, acrobatic kicks have never been a mandatory part of our curriculum and is something we usually only teach as a fun option in special classes usually for younger teens.

This really sounds like you were exposed to only a single small part of the wider umbrella of TKD and decided that all TKD was a waste of time. That would be like saying " I read a book once and it was bad so all books are bad".

This reads like a reddit troll post.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

it is kind of silly to see grown men jumping around doing acrobatic kicks.

Time has changed. Back in my time, if you can't do Bruce Lee's famous triple kicks, you won't get any students.

 

[gyoja]

Time has changed. Back in my time, if you can't do Bruce Lee's famous triple kicks, you won't get any students.

Doesn’t everyone do triple kicks?

 

[Buka]

Here is my take,
I'm not a black belt in TKD not even ranked so take my opinion for what ever its worth. I did train for about three years pretty regular with an old school TKD Guy from the 1970's. Most powerful kicks I had ever seen. He could tear the stitching on a heavy bag at will. He taught me a large portion of solid functional kicks. In sparring my kicking game was solid TKD.
30 years later my 13 yo step sister got her black belt in TKD. Something was very different than what I had ever done. I think it was that Korean arts had embraced the fact that it's a buisness. Schools are there to make a profit. That's not necessarily a bad thing. you have to keep the doors open. But by trying to maximize profits you sacrifice quality. It changes the entire dynamic of the school and ultimately who signs up. The student body as a group controls how good people get within that group. The same applies to regular school and university. It's why Harvard, Yale and Oxford are held in high esteem.

“The student body as a group controls how good people get within that group.”

Well said. I really like that.

 

[drop bear]

A lot of people think lack of evidence is evidence of lack, which is just a logical fallacy.

A 12-gauge shotgun has never worked in UFC, but I still think it's effective in self-defense.

The logic is wrong.

A banana has never worked in the ufc but is effective for self defence

 

[drop bear]

Ok.
Rulesets.

So the best rule set for fighting is probably the one that allows you to do the most stuff.

But it means you can slack off with some of that stuff if you are good at other stuff.

So a restricted rule set forces you to become good at the skills that rule set prioritises.

This is why styles like MMA train and compete in their foundational styles.

To prevent their martial artists from being mediocre.

So yes TKD has worth as it develops skills that you might be avoiding because you are being a little ***** and only doing the things you are good at.

 

[drop bear]

To clarify this for those who weren't at the meetup:

During the first day of our recent meetup at my gym, some of our BJJ guys were having an in-house tournament for white and blue belts. The ruleset was submission only, but if no one got a submission during regulation time then the match would go to a "sudden death" overtime. For the overtime, the competitors started on opposite sides of a MMA cage with a shock knife on the floor in the middle of the cage. Victory went to whoever got to the knife and zapped their opponent with it first.

I guess I can ask the tournament winner* (who never got stabbed) how he thought his training helped him in those overtime rounds.

Since the tournament was also an aspect of training, I can ask the other competitors if they think the experience of going through those rounds was helpful for building experience in dealing with a knife.

*BTW, I had the pleasure of promoting the winner to blue belt the Monday after the tournament. He's only been training for about 8 months, but has a great attitude and work ethic, coupled with a strong wrestling background.

Wrestling probably has the best toolset for knife defence.

 

[HighKick]

“The student body as a group controls how good people get within that group.”

Well said. I really like that.

I agree that people feed or push each other it the environment and tone are right, but it all starts with the instructor. Always has, always will.

 

[skribs]

The logic is wrong.

A banana has never worked in the ufc but is effective for self defence

Lack of proof is not proof of existence, either. It's agnostic.

 

[drop bear]

Lack of proof is not proof of existence, either. It's agnostic.

You can only go off the evidence you have. Not the evidence you don't have.

We don't see flying kicks in the UFC. but we do see them in street fights. So an argument can be made that they are situational. We see guns work outside the UFC.

We don't see bananas work outside the UFC and it is very hard to make a case for their effectiveness.

If whatever you are defending falls in to the banana category. Then I would advise you don't rely on it.

 

[Buka]

I agree that people feed or push each other it the environment and tone are right, but it all starts with the instructor. Always has, always will.

Most of the time, yes. But not always. My first full time instructor was such a bad person and a complete fraud the students took over. We had to. He didn’t even mind, we let him have all the money and the student enrollment rapidly increased. He was thrilled. So were we.